Old or new table saw?

[cstevens]

Ok, I know this question has been asked many, many times before. Here and elsewhere. And I've researched the options in some detail. But I still don't have a really conclusive answer. Which probably means "it depends" and that I'll have to work it out for myself but just for the heck of it I'll ask... I'm looking at buying a table saw. I've never owned one and have very limited experience with them but I have a lot of work to do on Petrel and I think it's time that I got some real tools. With that in mind, is an older table saw even worth considering? Factors in my decision:

1. I really like old things and am both familiar and comfortable with the compromises they require (my daily driver is a 1949 Studebaker Pickup truck. The heater doesn't work. It barely has suspension and I just got the wipers working a few weeks ago). So an old table saw with a heavy cast iron top is appealing, although I admit this is an aesthetic consideration not a practical one.

2. My budget is around $500, which would buy a new benchtop saw (probably a Dewalt since that's what I have for most of my other power tools) or would also go a long way towards restoring and upgrading an older saw.

3. Anything I get needs to be somewhat portable since I do not have a dedicated woodworking shop and the saw would be be used mostly on the boat. Meaning that I would need to be able to set it up and take it down with a reasonable level of effort. Even better if I can put it on top of the temporary workbench that I have set up on the aft deck.

The saws I'm considering right now are:

- An old Craftsman, something like this one: https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/tls/6031250664.html

- This Rockwell contractor's saw: https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/tls/6035416630.html

- A recent (or new) Dewalt bench top saw such as: https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/tls/6034000482.html

Any recommendations? Anything to watch out for? I suspect the correct answer is "get the new saw - it will be better in every way" so I guess I'm asking whether I would be hugely disappointed in the older one if I did go that route?

Thanks!

[Gerarddm]

The Bosch folding cart contractor's saw is universally loved, and should be gettable on Craig's List for $400-$500. I built my boat with one.

[cstevens]

Like this one you mean? https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/tls/6017657646.html

Ok, looks like I need to give up my dreams of vintage power tools and go with practical.

[Canoez]

We've got a Bosch like that at work. It's not bad, but it is a direct drive saw FWIW. It's done some pretty good work and the table opens up to give you better support with larger pieces. Wouldn't be a bad choice. As with most portables, the fence and miter gauge leave a bit to be desired.

[cstevens]

We've got a Bosch like that at work. It's not bad, but it is a direct drive saw FWIW. It's done some pretty good work and the table opens up to give you better support with larger pieces. Wouldn't be a bad choice. As with most portables, the fence and miter gauge leave a bit to be desired.

I think this is really what I'm asking. Would I end up with a higher-quality setup by buying an older belt-drive saw and spending the money for a better fence and miter gauge? It wouldn't be as portable as a contractor saw but I don't really need to move it around a lot. I just need to be able to set it on a bench to use it and then put it away under the bench when I need the room.

[David G]

You haven't shared all the relevant factors.

But some thoughts.

First - for a tiny shop, and for transport to a diy boatyard or dockside - that Bosch is an excellent choice. Rigid also makes a decent one in the same folding form.

Second - that Rockwell contractors saw is the closest to being a 'real saw'. If you have room to set up permanent (or even temp.) outfeed tables, and want to put a larger aftermarket fence on it... you can even bust up full sheets of plywood instead of having to it with a skilsaw/jigsaw.

Third - that older Craftsman bench saw is more suited to handling small solid stock. Nothing wrong with it - but the least versatile, and likely the least grunt. There are people who have adapted their work style for such a saw, and it certainly takes up very little room, but I wouldn't consider it optimum for most uses.

But all of that could shift with more info: how big is your shop? Will the saw live tucked away, or become the central fixture? What sort of work is driving the purchase? What sort do you envision in the future? Etc. Etc.

[ron ll]

As you probably know, I have and use an old one. I love it. But having said that, get a new one. There are things this one just doesn't do well. And it's safety features are non-existent, which I think could be important if you haven't used a table saw a lot. I lust after the Bosch, or if I had more room, a real table saw. But I guess I'm kind of attached to this one just because I've had it so long.

[cstevens]

You haven't shared all the relevant factors.

Ok. Part of the problem is that I may not know all of the relevant factors so here are a few more:

- Space is an issue because I don't have a dedicated wood shop at all. I have a very large garage space that I can use for mechanical and finishing work but it's in the basement of an apartment building so I can't use power tools much. I do have a large basement at home, but it's not set up for woodworking and it would take some effort to do so. So 90% of the work that I'm doing is happening on the boat. I have an open aft deck area where I can set up a saw but I don't have room for the saw and a workbench at the same time. Thus the thought of getting something I could set up on the workbench.

- I don't expect to have to transport it very often so that's less of an issue. It will most likely either be on the boat or put away.

- I don't expect to have to saw full sheets. I would do the initial cut down with a circular saw and then the rest on the table saw. Most of the table saw work would probably be for smaller solid stock. For example ripping 5/16" ceiling planks out of 3/4" boards, or cutting staves for the interior of the pilothouse - that sort of thing. But it might be nice to be able to run a dado stack to mill tongue and groove.

It sounds like the Bosch for portability, the Rockwell for large work (and maybe the most flexible with some upgrades) or the Craftsman for lighter work. Hmmm.

As you probably know, I have and use an old one. I love it. But having said that, get a new one.

Yes, I've seen photos of yours Ron, and I like it a lot. That's one reason for wanting an older saw. But good to get the perspective from someone who has one. Thanks!

[ron ll]

Another factor is that my old one is not really that accurate. I have to take real pains to set up an accurate cut if it is important. For instance, the tail of the fence is hard to pin down.

[cstevens]

Another factor is that my old one is not really that accurate. I have to take real pains to set up an accurate cut if it is important. For instance, the tail of the fence is hard to pin down.

Yes, that was a big problem with the little bench top saw that I used last weekend. So if I did get an older saw I would invest in a better fence for sure.

[Stein]

I bought my old Craftsman like the link in the original post for $1.00 on a farm auction. Best $1.00 I ever spent on tools!

[Phil Y]

I say get a big old cast iron job weighing a ton or more and bolt it to the back of the truck.

[David G]

Yes, that was a big problem with the little bench top saw that I used last weekend. So if I did get an older saw I would invest in a better fence for sure.

Not all older - esp. benchtop - saws easily accept a good aftermarket fence. You might have to design and fabricate something custom.

[cstevens]

I say get a big old cast iron job weighing a ton or more and bolt it to the back of the truck.

Hmmm. Not the worst idea ever. But then I'd need a hoist to get it out when I want to use the truck for something else. But the hoist would come in handy for moving the old engine block that has been sitting under the side of the house ever since I replaced the motor in the truck.... Ok, there's a train of thought I need to stop right now!

I'm leaning toward the Rockwell at the moment. I'll have to go have a look at it and see for myself though.

[Phil Y]

Not all older - esp. benchtop - saws easily accept a good aftermarket fence. You might have to design and fabricate something custom.

and start a thread.....

[BBSebens]

The reason to get an old saw would be for the solid cast iron top, and the ability to tweak and modify it to your uses. This, to me, makes its more amenable to a stationary tool. Since you need portability, I would be inclined to go for a newer, portable, jobsite type saw. Pay attention to what its made of, since you are storing it in a salt-air environment. I would lean toward a smaller, but higher quality saw, which (generally) means greater precision, and can be made to handle larger stock when occasionally needed.

my personal opinion.

[Al G]

The portable table saws in Australia are mostly by a company called Triton, and when set up properly they are fairly accurate and well worth spending a few hundred dollars on. The downside of most of them is that the blade angle cannot be adjusted and there is an unsatisfactory mechanism for adjusting the angle of the fence to compensate. The ones that I have used cut to within a mm. Fine for dimensioning stock prior to planning.

[cstevens]

The reason to get an old saw would be for the solid cast iron top, and the ability to tweak and modify it to your uses.

Yes, that's pretty much my thought. And that does tend to limit portability. I guess I have to decide for myself how important that is.

Thanks for the input everyone - it has definitely helped me clarify things. I need to go have a look at a few saws to see for myself now but at least I have a better understanding of the tradeoffs and potential issues.

[StevenBauer]

I guess I'm the dissenter on that Bosch contractor saw. I've only used three different ones but they were all horrible. Loud, finicky and prone to breakage. Maybe the newer ones are better but as of a few years ago I hated them. I have the Dewalt for a jobsite saw, I'm pretty happy with it. Dewalt has a new 60 Volt cordless tablesaw that looks promising. My Dewalt cordless mitersaw has been great.
The Sawstop saws are worth looking at, too. A bit more than your proposed $500 but when my BIL cut off three fingers the bill was in the hundreds of thousands to sew them back on.

[artif]

Are you building a boat or building a saw?
Go portable, you can set it up near the boat and then take it home and use it to work on the boat at home.
Save the big old cast iron saws for the permanent workshop.

p.s I only have a handheld circular saw, takes a while longer but still does the job.

[cstevens]

Are you building a boat or building a saw?

A reasonable question. And I agree that a newer portable saw is the smart choice. That's probably what I'll end up with but only after I look at some old iron and convince myself that it's not the right way to go. Just because I'm stubborn.

[cstevens]

Dewalt has a new 60 Volt cordless tablesaw that looks promising.

I've seen that too. A bit tempting just for the gee whiz factor but I can't convince myself that there is any reason to go cordless for a stationary tool, even a portable one. What's the benefit?

[artif]

A much needed trait when playing with old woodies

Just because I'm stubborn.

[chas]

Chris, the best value for your dollar in new portable contractor saws today is this one.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-15...4513/100090444

The 10" Bosch portable is living on it's failing reputation; my first one lasted 8 years but I've seen multiple new ones fail over the last two years. The portable stand on the Ridgid is a thing of beauty, I've not noticed a good supplied miter guage on portable saws yet but the fence on the Ridgid is quite adequate and very user-friendly.

The 40-tooth Freud thin-kerf combination blade provides the proper texture for structural epoxy laminations, just saying. Replace whatever junk blade is supplied with these saws immediately. This saw used to be sold with a lifetime warranty, if that is of value to you.

This is all assuming you are not ready to spring for a new Makita. Good luck with the shopping. / Jim

[ron ll]

A couple of thoughts on long range tool planning: I know that when I finally got a decent bandsaw, I used my tablesaw a lot less. And similarly, I've friends who rave about their Fe$tool circular saw and rail guide system saying it takes the place of many things they used to do on a table saw. And there are beginning to be more less expensive brands of rail guide saws out there now. Still, there are some things only a tablesaw can do. But maybe a smaller one is fine if you don't need to rip large sheets.

[capefox]

I built my own 10' track saw guides for about $75, including clamps that go into a t-track below the system. The cuts are not laser precise but good enough for any use I have, including boat building and DIY projects around the house.

[Bob Cleek]

There is really very little that needs be done on a boat that can be done on a table saw. Unless you have a really, really, big boat, I have a hard time envisioning any advantage to having a table saw on a boat at all. Not that there aren't a lot of uses for a table saw, but unless you are a contractor doing job-site construction work, hauling even a "portable" table saw to a boat is pretty heavy work for not a lot of advantage. A Black and Decker "Workmate" and a decent worm drive circular saw should take care of most of what you'd want to do on site on a boat. That said, a table saw is just the ticket for ripping dimensioned stock as you've described. That job, however, can be done elsewhere and the milled stock carried to the boat and then crosscut for fitting with a hand held circular saw. If you had the space, your money would be best spent on a used cabinet saw, such as the common Delta Unisaw, which will provide the power and accuracy that you'll never get out of a "portable" "contractor's saw." So, lacking the space, all you really need is a friend with a good table saw. There's got to be a lot of those around and they are generally a lot less expensive than buying a good saw yourself! Most will be happy to run some stock for you in exchange for a fifth of their favorite.

http://www.blackanddecker.com/produc...and-vise/wm225



Folds flat and is easily stored or carried. It's a very versatile clamping vise platform for holding any shaped item.



You can mount a chop saw on a Workmate easily and come close to a table saw if you really have to, or just use the Workmate to hold your stock and cut it with a hand held circular saw.

[cstevens]

A couple of thoughts on long range tool planning: I know that when I finally got a decent bandsaw, I used my tablesaw a lot less. And similarly, I've friends who rave about their Fe$tool circular saw and rail guide system saying it takes the place of many things they used to do on a table saw. And there are beginning to be more less expensive brands of rail guide saws out there now. Still, there are some things only a tablesaw can do. But maybe a smaller one is fine if you don't need to rip large sheets.

Thanks Ron. I've had similar thoughts but I think the projects I have coming up will need a table saw more than anything else, aside from tools I already have. The track saws look interesting but I don't expect to do that much work with large sheets. I figure I can keep using my circular saw for that. And I could get one of the track systems designed for a standard circular saw if I do end up wanting that option. The projects I have coming up are:

- Floors: A bandsaw would definitely be handy here but I could probably get away with using a jigsaw and patience. Or find a handy friend with a bandsaw to help

- New engine crossmember/floor: Probably need a bandsaw for this one as it's thicker than I can cut with a jigsaw. But it's just two cuts so not worth buying the tool for it.

- Ceiling: I'll need to rip the ceiling planks and I assume a table saw would be the best tool here (this project is the main rationale for the table saw purchase)

- Staves for the interior of the trunk cabin and pilothouse. Need to rip the stock and cut to length. Could use a bandsaw but can also do it with a circular saw, table saw or chop saw/miter saw (which I have access to).

- Cabin sole: I'm using S4S stock so mostly jigsaw and circular saw. Maybe table saw to rip the outermost planks.

- Bulkheads: Circular saw and jigsaw.

- Pilothouse hatch framing: Table saw (ripping and lap joints - unless i do those by hand, which I might).

The next major project for which I think a bandsaw would be essential is the aft deck, which I plan to rebuild at some point since what I have there now is temporary (probably enforced as such since it's made from house lumber and deck screws). It would be tough to shape the deck beams without a bandsaw I assume. But that project is at least a year off so not urgent.

Give this list am I missing anything?

[nedL]

I'll have to say for myself I'd go for the Craftsman or the Rockwell. I like the idea of a replacable standard motor. If the motor dies I just toss on another and don't have to toss the whole saw.
That Craftsman is effectively what has been my mainstay saw for 40 years (without the table extensions). The most accurate saw(?), no, but I'm not doing ultra high end cabinet work in a production shop. It is pretty indestructable.(and I have been thought a number of motors).
I'd put the left over money into something else (jointer or planer).

[cstevens]

There is really very little that needs be done on a boat that can be done on a table saw. Unless you have a really, really, big boat, I have a hard time envisioning any advantage to having a table saw on a boat at all. Not that there aren't a lot of uses for a table saw, but unless you are a contractor doing job-site construction work, hauling even a "portable" table saw to a boat is pretty heavy work for not a lot of advantage. A Black and Decker "Workmate" and a decent worm drive circular saw should take care of most of what you'd want to do on site on a boat. That said, a table saw is just the ticked for ripping dimensioned stock as you've described. That job, however, can be done elsewhere and the milled stock carried to the boat and then crosscut for fitting with a hand held circular saw. If you had the space, your money would be best spent on a used cabinet saw, such as the common Delta Unisaw, which will provide the power and accuracy that you'll never get out of a "portable" "contractor's saw." So, lacking the space, all you really need is a friend with a good table saw. There's got to be a lot of those around and they are generally a lot less expensive than buying a good saw yourself! Most will be happy to run some stock for you in exchange for a fifth of their favorite.

Hmmm. Useful thoughts Bob - thank you. It's true that after looking at my list of projects (posted above) there isn't anything that actually requires a table saw on the boat. More consideration needed perhaps. And yes, I do know several people with decent table saws, bandsaws, etc. Having my own is really about convenience - I can get the job done whenever I want to rather than having to find a convenient time for the friend. But maybe a bit of patience is the answer here.

[Charlie Santi]

I have both the craftsman and that rockwell. The Rockwell is a great saw the big problem with the craftsman is the tilt mechanism is made of a zinc alloy as does not hold up. However if you building a boat make sure you get at least a 14" bandsaw first.

[David G]

There is really very little that needs be done on a boat that can be done on a table saw. Unless you have a really, really, big boat, I have a hard time envisioning any advantage to having a table saw on a boat at all. Not that there aren't a lot of uses for a table saw, but unless you are a contractor doing job-site construction work, hauling even a "portable" table saw to a boat is pretty heavy work for not a lot of advantage. A Black and Decker "Workmate" and a decent worm drive circular saw should take care of most of what you'd want to do on site on a boat. That said, a table saw is just the ticket for ripping dimensioned stock as you've described. That job, however, can be done elsewhere and the milled stock carried to the boat and then crosscut for fitting with a hand held circular saw. If you had the space, your money would be best spent on a used cabinet saw, such as the common Delta Unisaw, which will provide the power and accuracy that you'll never get out of a "portable" "contractor's saw." So, lacking the space, all you really need is a friend with a good table saw. There's got to be a lot of those around and they are generally a lot less expensive than buying a good saw yourself! Most will be happy to run some stock for you in exchange for a fifth of their favorite.

Have to disagree with the bolded bit. Of course, people develop work patterns that suit them, based upon what they've been introduced to early on. And for boat work, there are plenty of people that would choose a bandsaw first, over a tablesaw. But there are plenty, also, that would choose a tablesaw first. I among them. Which only goes to prove my second sentence.

My reasoning is this - a good jigsaw is a pretty decent substitute for what I mostly use a bandsaw for - except for re-sawing tall stock (which is rare). There is no 'pretty decent' substitute for how I use a tablesaw. Oh... there ARE substitutes. But they don't fill in for a table saw nearly as well as the jigsaw does for a bandsaw.

Certainly one can argue either way... and we have, ad nauseum. But what can't be argued is that the bolded comment is pure cowflop. Not just exaggeration, but nonsense.

[cstevens]

David, not to speak for Bob but I think he was responding to my comment about wanting to use the table saw on the boat rather than in my shop. His point, if I understand it, was that most of the things that one would use the table saw for would be better done in the shop not on the boat itself. Which does make sense to me.

Thanks again everyone. All this discussion has been very useful. And one thing that has occurred to me is that while a table saw might be useful for some things, when I look at my list of projects, the only think that I really *need* it for is ripping long boards. And that's something which would be a bit tricky on the boat in any case given the tight space. Much better, as Bob suggests, to depend on the kindness of friends there, and instead spend my time and money in other areas. And in particular on improving my workspace on the boat, since that's where I have to spend most of my time. I really like the Workmate idea. I've never used one but it seems like a good solution for the limited space I have. So that's my next purchase.

Of course, just as I write this, another Rockwell contractor saw has popped up on my Craigslist search alerts.

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/tls/6037203133.html

This one is $100 less expensive than the one I was looking at this morning, is already wired for 110v and comes with a Biesemeyer fence...

[DeniseO30]

Chris if you get a portable. (seems like you will) You can build a folding table like this.


and make 2 tops.. one that will let the saw become part of the top. by having a shelf that supports the saw. (or cleats. the extended top will make it seem like big saw ability. The other top can be for woodworking in general.

Some portables can't handle a stack dado set. some have shaft side to side movement. Many aren't square to the track and will need "tuning"

Good luck!

[cstevens]

Hey Denise! Thanks. I like that table a lot. Very elegant. Tempting to do something like that rather than the Workmate, but I think I'd better spend my time working on the boat rather than working on the tools right now, per artif's point earlier.