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Thread: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern shape?

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    Default Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern shape?

    Hey everyone, I'm pondering building a cedar strip, but I'm wondering if a more modern take can be done. When I say more modern take, I'm referring to a wider, deeper V hull for stability. I like classic cedar strip construction, but I'm open to other styles. My thoughts are that this boat will be a hybrid of a classic cedar strip runabout mixed with a modern fishing boat such as the one shown below (but smaller)



    The criteria I'd like to include is as follows, wondering if its doable, or if it is a pipe dream.

    - 15' max length (must fit in my garage on a trailer, with the motor in place)
    - V hull, on the deeper side if possible
    - set up to work with a 10 hp outboard motor or larger
    - wide beam for stability and walkabout space
    - tiller or side console control
    - front, raised casting deck with under deck stowage (stand on hatches)
    - open mid section (lower flat floor section) with side stowage along gunnels for paddles, fishing rods etc
    - raised rear platform - as a seat platform, and/or casting deck with under deck stowage

    This boat will be dry stored on a trailer and used on smaller water bodies, inland lakes etc. 1-2 person boat, max 3

    Again, I'm open to other construction methods, though I really like the hull shape of the above (as opposed to a jon boat or flat boat style without a V hull)

    What do you folks think? Is it possible, practical and sturdy to do this in wooden construction?
    Last edited by ShoestringMariner; 02-17-2017 at 11:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Yes you can build almost any hull with cedar strip.

    This is one example (the plans state plywood lapstrake but strip would be equally suitable);

    http://store.gartsideboats.com/colle...oard-skiff-168

    ...but there are other options as well...

    http://www.bowdidgemarinedesigns.com


    /Fredrik

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Hi,

    Mark Bowdidge is your man!

    He has plans for what you described. Just ad another 40 Horses

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Quote Originally Posted by koederfischgriller View Post
    Hi,

    Mark Bowdidge is your man!

    He has plans for what you described. Just ad another 40 Horses
    Serch for "riptide"

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Went through the same evolution, starting with tin boats ending with the Jerricho Bay Lobster Skiff. It has most of what you're looking for, the rod storage and platforms are a fairly easy addition. Cedar strip glassed in and out, great fishing boat. Plans available through WB.



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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    A Bolger Diablo may not be what you consider a modern design, but when you see what these guys did with it you might want to consider it. It appears to meet many of your needs, and a quick search will show many have modified it to their needs.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IH7GjZRqC64

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Quote Originally Posted by trango View Post
    Yes you can build almost any hull with cedar strip.

    This is one example (the plans state plywood lapstrake but strip would be equally suitable);

    http://store.gartsideboats.com/colle...oard-skiff-168

    ...but there are other options as well...

    http://www.bowdidgemarinedesigns.com


    /Fredrik
    Quote Originally Posted by koederfischgriller View Post
    Hi,

    Mark Bowdidge is your man!

    He has plans for what you described. Just ad another 40 Horses
    Quote Originally Posted by koederfischgriller View Post
    Serch for "riptide"
    Thanks guys! I have been looking the Bowdidge site all morning. Love the plans, and riptide is one of my faves however, the Edgetracker 426 seems to make a lot of practical sense for open space and its a foot shorter (Though I'd prefer a higher front platform...easy enough to mod I suppose?) The motor sizes are much bigger than I anticipated however.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodpile View Post
    Went through the same evolution, starting with tin boats ending with the Jerricho Bay Lobster Skiff. It has most of what you're looking for, the rod storage and platforms are a fairly easy addition. Cedar strip glassed in and out, great fishing boat. Plans available through WB.


    That's a great looking boat. What is WB? And what the length, beam and recommended power on that boat?

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Thanks, WB is http://www.woodenboatstore.com/produ...owerboat_plans , all the specs are in the link. 20 hp is all it needs, cruises with one person around 17-18 mph.

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    When you say '- V hull, on the deeper side if possible' do you mean deep vee or high freeboard? A beamy deep vee for low horsepower does not make a lot of sense.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Quote Originally Posted by woodpile View Post
    Thanks, WB is http://www.woodenboatstore.com/produ...owerboat_plans , all the specs are in the link. 20 hp is all it needs, cruises with one person around 17-18 mph.
    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    When you say '- V hull, on the deeper side if possible' do you mean deep vee or high freeboard? A beamy deep vee for low horsepower does not make a lot of sense.
    Evidently, I have much to learn about boats. I way underestimated power required and I guess by deeper, I meant that I want a boat that can be deep enough to make me feel safe and deep enough that I can have a flat floor, yet without the gunnels being at my shin level. I'm currently using a 12 tin boat that feels like wakes from passing boats will swamp me, or if I lean too much to deal with a fish, I'll tip it. It's too small a boat for my liking in all areas (length, width and freeboard)

    Quote Originally Posted by openboater View Post
    A Bolger Diablo may not be what you consider a modern design, but when you see what these guys did with it you might want to consider it. It appears to meet many of your needs, and a quick search will show many have modified it to their needs.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IH7GjZRqC64
    That's a very nice design too. Thanks for the link

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    So comparing the Tracker photos and specs as posted in post #1 to a few boats in the Bowdidge Marine site, I am wondering how difficult it would be to adjust the plans to make an almost dead ringer of the Tracker? It's exactly the layout I'd like to build. They do not make this boat any longer and I cannot fit a 16' in my garage. 15' is the absolute max size that I can work with. That, and it sold with 30hp motors (But the one pictured is a 20hp?)

    Here's more info on it;

    • Overall Length : 15' 1''
    • Beam : 76"
    • Bottom Width : 60"
    • Transom Height : 20"
    • Max. Recommended H.P. : 50 HP
    • Max. Person Capacity : 4 Persons
    • Max. Person Weight : 650 Lbs.
    • Max. Weight Capacity : 1155 Lbs.
    • Hull Material : 0.100 5052 Marine Alloy
    • Package Length : 19' 8''
    • Fuel Capacity : 9 Gallons
    • Deadrise : 8 degrees
    • Package Width : 7' 5''
    • Package Weight (approx.) : 1372 Lbs.
    • Weight (approx.) : 780 Lbs.


    link to more photos; http://www.hernmarine.com/Page.aspx/.../Brochure.aspx

    Floorplan;

    I think it would really be neat to do this in wood. It sure would get double takes
    Last edited by ShoestringMariner; 02-18-2017 at 10:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    "They do not make this boat any longer and I cannot fit a 16' in my garage."
    Mabey you can with one of these.




    https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...l_1zv2jey4v2_b

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Lol, you read my mind. 15' includes using one of those! I have a 21' deep by 15' wide garage/workshop. The boat with the motor on it has to actually fit in a 17' space due to a wall cabinet which cannot be moved due to lack of space. I've got tool chests, workbench, and woodworking machinery taking up space down either side walls.

    But you know, Once it's finished, it will likely live outside on the trailer under a custom fitted cover. I'm sitting here thinking I will get tired of moving it outside anytime I have a project to work on, and eventually wont store it inside is really the reality.

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    We ought to be able to find something close to the aluminum boat you like, but changing the building method might be tricky.



    From Bateau, ideal for 25 hp,

    http://bateau.com/studyplans/OB15_study.php?prod=OB15
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Ask the designer, Paul Fisher, about shortening this one a foot or so. Not a vee bottom: http://www.selway-fisher.com/Mcup16.htm

    Last edited by JimD; 02-19-2017 at 10:42 AM.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    This one might be perfect. Designed for strip plank so no worries about construction. Also not a vee http://www.selway-fisher.com/Mcup16.htm

    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    We ought to be able to find something close to the aluminum boat you like, but changing the building method might be tricky.



    From Bateau, ideal for 25 hp,

    http://bateau.com/studyplans/OB15_study.php?prod=OB15
    Thanks Jim, I really like the idea of a smaller motor (under 30hp) and that looks promising.
    By tricky, are you referring to building method in cedar strip vs the boat's intended materials? Or the modifications to include the features I'm after?
    I'm not set on cedar strip. As much as they are beautiful, I am open to other methods.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    Ask the designer, Paul Fisher, about shortening this one a foot or so. Not a vee bottom: http://www.selway-fisher.com/Mcup16.htm

    That one looks good too. One question that I should be asking, is what kind of hull do I NEED?
    I know the features I like, but I don't know much about hull designs and how they relate to my intended use. Do I actually need a deep V hull? I will not be using this boat on big water. The biggest water I will use it on is the protected areas of the Great lakes on calm days. It will be mostly average to large sized lakes, larger river fishing for bass, pike, walleye and musky. In these waters I see anything from tin boats, cedar strips, bass boats and Deep V fishing boats up to around 17-19'.

    I'd like it to handle some rough chop without getting hammered or soaked. There could be some instances where I have to pass through 3 or 4' of water so maybe a deep v is a bad idea?

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    This one might be perfect. Designed for strip plank so no worries about construction. Also not a vee http://www.selway-fisher.com/Mcup16.htm

    Those boats are absolutely gorgeous. I love this builders version;

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Quote Originally Posted by ShoestringMariner View Post
    Those boats are absolutely gorgeous. I love this builders version;
    Yes, they are beauties. Classic curves ideal for strip plank. Doubt you could do much better.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    Yes, they are beauties. Classic curves ideal for strip plank. Doubt you could do much better.
    Would be a total sin to stick a bow mount trolling motor on that. I assume the floor I see is actually the bottom of the boat? Would that not flex in waves/chop? The materials indicate only 3/8" thick

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Quote Originally Posted by ShoestringMariner View Post
    Would be a total sin to stick a bow mount trolling motor on that. I assume the floor I see is actually the bottom of the boat? Would that not flex in waves/chop? The materials indicate only 3/8" thick
    I'd trust the designer to make the bottom strong enough. You could always beef it up if it turned out to be not to your liking. One nice thing about wood is that you can almost always glue a little more on here and there. But you probably wouldn't have to. As for the trolling motor, I wouldn't imagine it would be too difficult to sort something out that could clamp on the bow and remove easily.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    "One question that I should be asking, is what kind of hull do I NEED?"

    To Quote a reputable Maine boat builder, David Stimson, "For any boat, power or sail, length generally translates into comfort. The longer the boat, the less it will be affected by waves. No matter how well it's designed and built, a short boat will pitch and pound more than a longer one." He feels a waterline aspect ratio of 1 beam to 3 length is about right. After fishing some of the larger Maine lakes than can kick up at times, and in multiple boats, I have to agree with his theory. The ratio of that Tracker in post #11 seems much too beamy, a definite pounder if you're in a 1' chop. Most of the 14-18' tin boats today have a modified V hull which is a shallow V, a compromise for some comfort with a little more power needed to plane.

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Quote Originally Posted by woodpile View Post
    "One question that I should be asking, is what kind of hull do I NEED?"

    To Quote a reputable Maine boat builder, David Stimson, "For any boat, power or sail, length generally translates into comfort. The longer the boat, the less it will be affected by waves. No matter how well it's designed and built, a short boat will pitch and pound more than a longer one." He feels a waterline aspect ratio of 1 beam to 3 length is about right. After fishing some of the larger Maine lakes than can kick up at times, and in multiple boats, I have to agree with his theory. The ratio of that Tracker in post #11 seems much too beamy, a definite pounder if you're in a 1' chop. Most of the 14-18' tin boats today have a modified V hull which is a shallow V, a compromise for some comfort with a little more power needed to plane.
    Interesting about the 1:3 ratio, but it makes sense. The tracker does look very disproportionate. Stumpy even

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Weight can really add up fast in a small fishing boat like that Tracker:
    2 men
    Outboard
    Gas Tank
    3 Batteries
    Boat Hull with console and compartments
    Trolling motor
    Fishing gear
    Ice, food and drinks
    Baitwell/livewell
    Ground tackle
    Safety gear

    Even a 15' boat can get to 1500 Lbs pretty fast. A deeper V and wider beam are the result. The <5 length/displacement ratio means the boat will need a larger HP motor to get out of the hole, and that is what you see in production fishing boats.

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Our EdgeTracker 426 has a 20 degree deadrise, so is designed for serious offshore or choppy conditions and would probably suit.
    Comfort, better seakeeping and better performance offshore or choppy conditions.

    Here's a vid of another one of our designs, Adam and his Sea Strike 16, 40 nautical miles offshore chasing Tuna.



    Here's a link to the EdgeTracker 426 (14fer)
    https://bowdidgemarinedesigns.com/edgetracker-426/

    If your looking for a bigger version, here's the EdgeTracker 487 (a 16 ft version)
    https://bowdidgemarinedesigns.com/edgetracker-487/

    Lachie and his EdgeTracker 487, 20 nautical miles offshore also chasing Tuna in the Great Southern Ocean

    11008644_10152751318530796_3435261934909355489_n.jpg
    Last edited by Mark Bowdidge; 10-04-2018 at 02:43 AM.

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Doug Hylan's Albury Brothers Runabout
    designed specifically for strip







    no reason you couldn't build it as a center console and leave the windshield off if that's what you want

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Thanks fellas, these are great boat. However I’m not actively seeking to build a wooden boat at this time. I have since picked up a 14’4” 1950s plywood dual cockpit runabout which is ever so slowly being restored, and a 16 foot aluminum StarCraft super sport which I am modifying here and there to be my fishing boat. This boat is teaching me everything I want and don’t want in a boat. I’m not going to close the thread because someday I would like to build one specifically to meet my needs and also to to leave it running for others who might be seeking to build one.

    Thanks again Folks

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Doug Hylan's Albury Brothers Runabout
    designed specifically for strip







    no reason you couldn't build it as a center console and leave the windshield off if that's what you want

    I absolutely love the lines of these boats. I tried my hand at salmon fishing for the first time this year. Nothing in the boat for me, but close enough to the action to tell me that I really want to hit the bigger waters around here (Great Lakes) with a stable but very fuel-efficient boat.
    Last edited by ShoestringMariner; 10-06-2018 at 07:17 AM.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    I wouldn't call a cedar strip a bad idea for a fishing skiff, but if your eyes wander to mass stuff like Tracker, that is made out of flat panels, then why would you use cedar strip, when 2/3rds of the work is done for you by the plywood manufacturer, or if you really want high tech, the foam core manufacturer. None of the designs in this thread really make much sense.

    When I designed my first boat, I really wanted to make a strip canoe, but at the time there wasn't a single up to date design, other than in the marathon segment. Today, nearly 40 years later, nobody I am aware of offers strip plans of the type I wanted, so I had to design my own hull.

    In the Fishing segment it is also a bit like that. I have been a human powered outdoorsman for nearly 60 years, but I have just taken up designing and building specialty fly fishing skiffs. This is actually one segment where there are some plans available, which is a happy coincidence, but not for what I am trying to do, so back to the drawing board. I got tired just seeing the parts of the lake within the same short radius of my lakeside home. And I am getting on.

    I am not suggesting you take up design, but I am unsure there are any serious options for bass boat packages. I haven't been looking all that hard though. I would probably be pretty happy with a Candlefish by Devlin, and re-arrange the interior to make the boat deliver what I wanted. He also has Garvey designs that might suit what you want, as Tracker offers a lot of those. Wood can certainly offer a better boat than you can often buy, so long as you don't overbuild and just get the whole thing too heavy.

    https://www.devlinboat.com/wordpress...11/cackler-14/

    https://www.devlinboat.com/wordpress...candlefish-13/

    https://www.devlinboat.com/wordpress.../12/curlew-20/

    Because of how narrow the Curlew is, and it's simplicity of construction, I think it would respond well to a simple reduction of length achieved through shortening the spacings on the panel templates.

    I know it sounds chancy to consider messing around with designs, but if you consider that many of our modern boat design icons were drawn from available designs, like ski boats. There are similar issues on canoes, and drift boats, to name two categories. It isn't as though these designs were drawn from first principles.

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    were drawn from first principles
    "First Principles" is to do with engineering, not designing.
    Just thought I'd mention it

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    Default Re: Considering building a cedar strip, but wondering if it could be a more modern sh

    Good to know. Though many disciplines share the concept, philosophy for one. More recently Elon Musk has used the idea of reasoning from first principles in Physics.


    The idea I was trying to get at is that one need not be too scared to try something reasonable on one's own given that quite preposterous borrowed ideas are often at the base of "iconic designs".

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