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Thread: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

  1. #1
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    Default Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    The fact that this idea was even floated is disturbing:

    President Donald Trump’s administration is considering mobilizing as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants, according to a draft copy of an order obtained by The Associated Press on Friday.

    Though the AP reported that the memo was written by U.S. Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly, the White House quickly denied that the report was true.

    “100% false. There is no effort to use the National Guard to round up,” White House press secretary Sean Spicer said in an email to The Huffington Post.

    The AP reports that an 11-page draft memo shows the Trump administration is considering an unprecedented militarization of immigration enforcement as far north as Portland, Oregon, and as far east as New Orleans. The memo, which has reportedly been circulating among DHS staff for two weeks, says participating troops would be authorized “to perform the functions of an immigration officer in relation to the investigation, apprehension and detention of aliens in the United States,” according to the AP.

    Eleven states would be targeted for raids, according to the memo. They include Mexican border states like California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas and non-Mexican-border states like Oregon, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana. Governors in those states would have final approval on whether troops under their control participate, according to the AP.

    During the 2016 campaign, Trump talked at various times about implementing a “deportation force” to conduct raids on undocumented immigrants. In August, during a high-profile speech in Arizona, he pledged to “triple the number of [Immigration and Customs Enforcement] deportation officers” and “create a new special deportation task force focused on identifying and quickly removing the most dangerous criminal illegal immigrants in America who have evaded justice.”

    The National Guard is not part of ICE, but the memo obtained by the AP is drawn from the same vein as that August pledge.

    Trump’s remarks during the campaign were repeatedly disavowed by members of Congress, including top Republicans. At a recent town hall, House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) said definitively that “there won’t be a deportation force.”

    But it’s not clear what, if any, purview the House would have over the mobilization of the National Guard, meaning that Ryan could be powerless to stop this from happening ― if he wanted to at all.

    A recent uptick in arrests and deportation of undocumented immigrants stoked fears nationwide about potential use of a “deportation force.” In a call with reporters a week ago, an ICE official said agencies had targeted several cities, including Los Angeles, New York and Chicago, in an “enforcement surge.”

    Trump has floated potential executive actions before, only to back away. Most notably, his administration looked into a religious freedom executive order that would have potentially curtailed gay rights. But they ultimately decided against going down that route. The AP story, likewise, says merely that the administration is “considering” this order on immigration deportation.

    “It is irresponsible to be saying this,” Spicer told reporters on Air Force One Friday, according to a White House pool report. Spicer also denied that any document the AP had obtained is a White House document.

    A request for comment to the Department of Homeland Security was not immediately returned.
    Trumpcare is democide.







  2. #2
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Don't know about the other states... but I'm pretty sure Oregon would not authorize National Guard participation.

    Just more dingbattery from the clown car. To be resisted as necessary. bbbbbbys would probably volunteer, though.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    That act does not apply to the Army National Guard, Norman.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    I just saw this and thought about posting but then Googled and saw that the White House is denying it.

    https://www.rt.com/usa/377719-trump-...igrants-draft/

    But then again this is possibly one of the big items that Trump mentioned in his news conference on 2/16/17.
    Will

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    That act does not apply to the Army National Guard, Norman.
    Thanks, I was unaware of that....
    Trumpcare is democide.







  6. #6
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Does posse commitatus apply to US citizens, or to acting within the US?
    If it's the former then it would seem the military could be used for apprehending illegals.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Does posse commitatus apply to US citizens, or to acting within the US?
    If it's the former then it would seem the military could be used for apprehending illegals.
    It's more about the separation of the military and the government with regard to enforcement of domestic laws. Basically, the Army and the Air Force cannot be used to enforce domestic law.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  8. #8
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Does posse commitatus apply to US citizens, or to acting within the US?
    If it's the former then it would seem the military could be used for apprehending illegals.
    Well, assuming Canoez is right, it doesn't apply. Here's the wording of the law:

    Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
    Trumpcare is democide.







  9. #9
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Little does he know I can't do a southern accent.
    not even virginia?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Some ask if I'm from Boston, that really pizzes me off.
    lol
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    “100% false. There is no effort to use the National Guard to round up,” White House press secretary Sean Spicer said in an email to The Huffington Post.

    spicer doesn't know **** about what's going on.
    "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." - Alice

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    'running like a smoothly oily machine'
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Ike, Kennedy, dubya and Obama "Nationalized the Guard" for domestic use.

    Federal duty[edit]

    Title 10 service means full-time duty in the active military service of the United States. The term used is federalized. Federalized National Guard forces have been ordered, by the President to active duty either in their reserve component status or by calling them into Federal service in their militia status.[24] There are several forms:

    • Voluntary Order to Active Duty.


    Federalized with the soldier's or airman's consent and the consent of their Governor.

    • Partial Mobilization.


    In time of national emergency declared by the President for any unit or any member for not more than 24 consecutive months.


    • Presidential Reserve Call Up.

    When the President determines that it is necessary to augment the active forces for any operational mission for any unit or any member for not more than 270 days.


    • Federal Aid for State Governments.

    Whenever an insurrection occurs in any state against its government, the President may, upon the request of its legislature or of its governor call into Federal service such of the militia of the other states. This is a statutory exception to the Posse Comitatus Act (PCA).


    • Use of Militia and Armed Forces to Enforce Federal Authority.

    Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, assemblages, or rebellion make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any state or territory, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any state. This is another statutory exception to the PCA.


    • Interference with State and Federal law.

    The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a state, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy.


    • Air and Army National Guard.

    Air and Army National Guard can specifically be called into Federal service in case of invasion, rebellion, or inability to execute Federal law with active forces.
    "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." - Alice

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    I'm thinking he's shooting to use this:

    • Interference with State and Federal law.


    The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a state, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  15. #15
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Hmm, what is the Trump definition of ''insurrection"? And is a few agent provocateurs at otherwise peaceful demonstrations enough to invoke "domestic violence"? And is the press ''false news'' a conspiracy?

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    .

    I have just said hello to people here and they ask me if I'm from jersey .

    Some ask if I'm from Boston, that really pizzes me off.
    Not nearly as much as it would piss off someone from Boston.
    Tom

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    .

    I have just said hello to people here and they ask me if I'm from jersey .

    Some ask if I'm from Boston, that really pizzes me off.
    What's the difference?
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by John of Phoenix View Post
    Ike, Kennedy, dubya and Obama "Nationalized the Guard" for domestic use.

    Federal duty[edit]

    Title 10 service means full-time duty in the active military service of the United States. The term used is federalized. Federalized National Guard forces have been ordered, by the President to active duty either in their reserve component status or by calling them into Federal service in their militia status.[24] There are several forms:

    • Voluntary Order to Active Duty.


    Federalized with the soldier's or airman's consent and the consent of their Governor.

    • Partial Mobilization.


    In time of national emergency declared by the President for any unit or any member for not more than 24 consecutive months.


    • Presidential Reserve Call Up.

    When the President determines that it is necessary to augment the active forces for any operational mission for any unit or any member for not more than 270 days.


    • Federal Aid for State Governments.

    Whenever an insurrection occurs in any state against its government, the President may, upon the request of its legislature or of its governor call into Federal service such of the militia of the other states. This is a statutory exception to the Posse Comitatus Act (PCA).


    • Use of Militia and Armed Forces to Enforce Federal Authority.

    Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, assemblages, or rebellion make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any state or territory, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any state. This is another statutory exception to the PCA.


    • Interference with State and Federal law.

    The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a state, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy.


    • Air and Army National Guard.

    Air and Army National Guard can specifically be called into Federal service in case of invasion, rebellion, or inability to execute Federal law with active forces.

    Simple. He calls the 11 million illegals an invasion.
    This politics stuff is easy!
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    He calls getting any resistance to getting 11 million folks out of the country to be rebellion against enforcing the law. Cause for calling out the National Guard.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Those who think it can't happen ... think again.

    The Ohio National Guard shot dead four students at Kent State Uni, if I remember correctly.

    Warren.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Those who think it can't happen ... think again.

    The Ohio National Guard shot dead four students at Kent State Uni, during the Vietnam War moratorium protests ... if I remember correctly.

    I think Donn years ago, mentioned that he confronted National Guardsmen at protests against the Vietnam War.


    Warren.
    Last edited by Wild Wassa; 02-17-2017 at 07:40 PM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wilkinson View Post
    Not nearly as much as it would piss off someone from Boston.
    Spewww...........
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    They did murder 4 students and it could happen again. Protests would lead to more killings. The reaction of this country to such an atrocity would be far greater than it was then. GOP politicians would see their careers circling the drain for a crazy man. He would be impeached and the people responsible would be put on trial. We have never really seen this country mobilize the civilian population - not for Vietnam, not for equal rights. The National Guard would stand down and this President would be impeached within days.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    They did murder 4 students and it could happen again. Protests would lead to more killings. The reaction of this country to such an atrocity would be far greater than it was then. GOP politicians would see their careers circling the drain for a crazy man. He would be impeached and the people responsible would be put on trial. We have never really seen this country mobilize the civilian population - not for Vietnam, not for equal rights. The National Guard would stand down and this President would be impeached within days.
    This president is not Nixon.
    Nixon was a politician, Trump is not.

    Nixon stepped down, Trump will not.

    I believe Trump will do 2 things during his tenure,
    Invoke martial law, and push the button.

    He is not a politician
    He is not a republican
    He is not a democrat
    He is a.........
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don't under-estimate Jack. He's purty damned talented

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by jack grebe View Post
    He is a.........
    He is a deal maker. Trump is the perfect patsy for the Deep State to deal with. He will do what ever the Deep State wants ... that's the deal.
    Already he has buckled to a deal from the Deep State, to get rid of General Mike Flynn. General Flynn was proposing reforms to the Deep State. Trump blamed the media and the Democrats for General Flynn's demise but it was Trump who under orders from the Deep State sacked him. Being asked to resign is being sacked.

    Warren.
    Last edited by Wild Wassa; 02-17-2017 at 09:37 PM.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    Quote Originally Posted by John of Phoenix View Post
    “100% false. There is no effort to use the National Guard to round up,” White House press secretary Sean Spicer said in an email to The Huffington Post.

    spicer doesn't know **** about what's going on.
    And more fake news, some here should tune in to that "fair and balanced" channel to get some facts for a change.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Can you spell 'Posse Comitatus'?

    “100% false. There is no effort to use the National Guard to round up,” White House press secretary Sean Spicer said in an email to The Huffington Post.
    He uses the present tense, he could easily appended "yet."

    I have no doubt the leaked memo was a trial balloon. It did not fly and now back to the drawing board, though it will not be surprising to me if it is resurrected in some other form.
    Steve Martinsen

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