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Thread: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

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    Default Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Title: Trudeau abandons electoral reform, breaking key campaign promise
    Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has broken a signature campaign promise by abandoning electoral reform, sparking condemnation from his political opponents.
    Link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle33855925/

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    True. Many of us are very upset about this, very. The news is a couple of weeks old now; curious that you'd discovered it just today.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Old news now and from my point of view despicable....He lost a lot of credibility with that one.
    Trump here is such a YOuuuuuuge slow moving train-wreck that our problems pale by comparison and no-one here bothered to post on it.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    I would feel sorry for our Canadian friends for the unfortunate Mr. Trudeau, but that they would elevate such a directionless, half-bright, pusillanimous twit saps my pity for them.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    youuuu are such a troll....

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    True. Many of us are very upset about this, very. The news is a couple of weeks old now; curious that you'd discovered it just today.
    Not so curious.
    Trudeau just visited Trump so when I typed in Trudeau this story popped up.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    Title: Trudeau abandons electoral reform, breaking key campaign promise
    Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has broken a signature campaign promise by abandoning electoral reform, sparking condemnation from his political opponents.
    Link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle33855925/
    Well it looks like the new PM of Canada is breaking even more campaign promises.


    Title: Trudeau Drops Campaign Promises and Goes All In With Deficits
    In for a penny, in for a pound.
    With falling oil prices eroding Canada’s revenue base, newly elected Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is fully embracing deficits, with his finance minister hinting Monday the country will run a deficit of about C$30 billion ($22 billion) in the fiscal year that starts April 1.
    It’s one of the biggest fiscal swings in the country’s history that, in just four months since the Oct. 19 election, has cut loose all the fiscal anchors Trudeau pledged to abide by even as he runs deficits. The government’s bet is that appetite for more infrastructure spending and a post-election political honeymoon will trump criticism over borrowing and unmet campaign promises.

    On Monday, Finance Minister Bill Morneau indicated none of those three promises will be met. A fiscal update -- released a month before the government’s first budget is due -- showed Canada’s deficit in the year that begins April 1 is on pace to be C$18.4 billion, even before the bulk of the government’s C$11 billion in spending promises and any other stimulus measures are accounted for.
    The same document shows the nation’s debt-to-GDP ratio will be rising in the coming fiscal year, not falling. Morneau also reiterated that balancing the budget in the near term would be “difficult.”

    “They’re trying to justify breaking a campaign promise by somehow suggesting it’s not their fault,” Rona Ambrose, leader of the main opposition Conservative Party, told reporters in Ottawa.

    Link: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-with-deficits

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Again, Canadians elected Trudeau largely on a strategic voting, harm reduction bit of pragmatism. Better to unite the center-left than split that vote 2 ways (3, if you include a slice of Greens) and enable Harper to return with a majority of seats... and a third of the votes cast.

    Trudeau is betting that his retreat from electoral reform will not alienate so many strategic voters that the Conservative party re-emerges victorious. We will see. By next time out, there will be new leaders in both major competitor parties, and there will be no appetite for strategic voting or coalition government. I fear that Trudeau cooked his own goose, by reneging on his electoral reform promise.

    A shame, as in many other respects his government is doing quite well, despite their relative lack of governing experience.

    In many respects, it depends on who is elected Conservative leader.
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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    ..............politicians...................

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    By the time this is over there will be another ex president and his senior administrators who cannot leave US territory without being the subject of interest from Interpol and the Hague.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Old news, and most of the adults here have simply noted it and moved on. Many of us knew during the campaign that his fiscal policies were naive, but we elected his party for other reasons. Devious politics as usual and nothing to get anyone's panties in a bunch over. We'll deal with it in the next election. Have to say, however, that Mr. Trudeau exceeded my expectations in dealing with your guy today.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Now that's he's elected its hard to see how election reform can help him. He may have calculated that either way he loses the same voters next election. With reform he loses all the voters who are now free to vote for who they wanted to in the first place. And without reform he loses the same voters because he has broken the promise that lead them to vote for him last election. Either way those people are gone. So now he has to ask himself what is better for reelection? Are those voters angry enough to go Conservative? I'm sure not. But I'm sorry for the Green Party, which stood to gain the most from reform.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Quote Originally Posted by outofthenorm View Post
    Old news, and most of the adults here have simply noted it and moved on. Many of us knew during the campaign that his fiscal policies were naive, but we elected his party for other reasons. Devious politics as usual and nothing to get anyone's panties in a bunch over. We'll deal with it in the next election. Have to say, however, that Mr. Trudeau exceeded my expectations in dealing with your guy today.
    The first story is only 12 days old.
    The second story is a year old but is does show a pattern.



    Title: Feb. 01, 2017 Trudeau abandons electoral reform, breaking key campaign promise
    Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has broken a signature campaign promise by abandoning electoral reform, sparking condemnation from his political opponents.
    Link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle33855925/


    Title: Feb 23 2016 Trudeau Drops Campaign Promises and Goes All In With Deficits
    In for a penny, in for a pound.
    With falling oil prices eroding Canada’s revenue base, newly elected Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is fully embracing deficits, with his finance minister hinting Monday the country will run a deficit of about C$30 billion ($22 billion) in the fiscal year that starts April 1.
    It’s one of the biggest fiscal swings in the country’s history that, in just four months since the Oct. 19 election, has cut loose all the fiscal anchors Trudeau pledged to abide by even as he runs deficits. The government’s bet is that appetite for more infrastructure spending and a post-election political honeymoon will trump criticism over borrowing and unmet campaign promises.

    On Monday, Finance Minister Bill Morneau indicated none of those three promises will be met. A fiscal update -- released a month before the government’s first budget is due -- showed Canada’s deficit in the year that begins April 1 is on pace to be C$18.4 billion, even before the bulk of the government’s C$11 billion in spending promises and any other stimulus measures are accounted for.
    The same document shows the nation’s debt-to-GDP ratio will be rising in the coming fiscal year, not falling. Morneau also reiterated that balancing the budget in the near term would be “difficult.”

    “They’re trying to justify breaking a campaign promise by somehow suggesting it’s not their fault,” Rona Ambrose, leader of the main opposition Conservative Party, told reporters in Ottawa.

    Link: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-with-deficits

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    I think he actually meant his promise at the time, which is part of what makes his retreat from it especially sad.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Trudeau's reason makes it sound like we were inventing something. Most Liberal Democracies in the world use some form of PR, including Germany, which few would consider rocky politically. Nathan Cullen pegged it.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    I think he actually meant his promise at the time...
    Me too. He went above and beyond in expressing his interest in reform. I get the impression other party power brokers told him if he wanted to fall on his idealistic sword he could do it on his own time, and not rock the establishment boat with any silly ideas of following through on it. Or maybe now that he's the man in charge he's a changed man and no one needed to tell him.
    Last edited by JimD; 02-13-2017 at 06:08 PM.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post

    “They’re trying to justify breaking a campaign promise by somehow suggesting it’s not their fault,” Rona Ambrose, leader of the main opposition Conservative Party, told reporters in Ottawa.
    It's so cute that she thinks that's a thing that never happened before.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Maybe not so old.
    Only 2 days ago there were protests across Canada.

    Title: Feb 11, 2017 'Perform on reform': Torontonians protest Trudeau's broken promise
    Hundreds gathered in Nathan Phillips Square on Saturday afternoon, decrying Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's broken promise to reform the electoral system.
    Link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...test-1.3978756

    Title: February 11, 2017 Montrealers to protest Trudeau backing down on electoral reform
    Protests will be held on Saturday in multiple Canadian cities, including Montreal, to denounce Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s decision to not reform the country’s electoral system.
    Link: http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/montreale...form-1.3281010

    Title: Feb 11, 2017 Protests held across Canada over Justin Trudeau’s broken promise on electoral reform
    Link: http://globalnews.ca/news/3243620/pr...eform-promise/

    Title: Feb 11, 2017 Calgarians protest after Trudeau abandons electoral reform
    Link: http://www.660news.com/2017/02/11/ca...ctoral-reform/

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Quote Originally Posted by outofthenorm View Post
    It's so cute that she thinks that's a thing that never happened before.
    Well it was a revelation to me. Thank heaven we have Rona to splain it all so's we know what's Trudeau really up to.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    Maybe not so old.
    Only 2 days ago there were protests across Canada.

    Title: Feb 11, 2017 'Perform on reform': Torontonians protest Trudeau's broken promise
    Hundreds gathered in Nathan Phillips Square on Saturday afternoon, decrying Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's broken promise to reform the electoral system.
    Link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...test-1.3978756

    Title: February 11, 2017 Montrealers to protest Trudeau backing down on electoral reform
    Protests will be held on Saturday in multiple Canadian cities, including Montreal, to denounce Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s decision to not reform the country’s electoral system.
    Link: http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/montreale...form-1.3281010

    Title: Feb 11, 2017 Protests held across Canada over Justin Trudeau’s broken promise on electoral reform
    Link: http://globalnews.ca/news/3243620/pr...eform-promise/

    Title: Feb 11, 2017 Calgarians protest after Trudeau abandons electoral reform
    Link: http://www.660news.com/2017/02/11/ca...ctoral-reform/
    I see a reelection slogan already. 'Vote Liberal: This Time He Means It!'

    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    Maybe not so old.
    Only 2 days ago there were protests across Canada.
    It's ok Geng. Really. Protests are a good thing. They're how portions of a healthy electorate express themselves from time to time. Sometimes folks get angry. Nothing to fear.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    If it makes you feel better, genglandoh, I'm one of the thousands of Canadians who signed a petition supporting the reversal of this decision. Which calls on the parliamentary committee which had been tasked to develop options for electoral reform to actually produce options for discussion and vote in Parliament.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    I voted Green. There are 338 elected seats in the Canadian parliament. Only one of them is Green. Proportional representation would have given us 12 sitting members, rounding up to the nearest whole member. It is very hard to see how the Green Party can increase it's number of seats without reform. So I am not happy. But I was also a little incredulous when the Liberals first made reform part of the election platform, much as I was hoping they meant it.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    I never believed the Libs would implement change. I have voted conservative in a riding that has been either Liberal or NDP since about 1990, and likely will be forever. (It was the late Jack Layton's riding) So, I haven't been represented for 26 years now. Doesn't stop me from writing to the MP and expressing my POV on things though.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    I'm intrigued by the direction of this thread and suggest to Canadians that a Canadian Politics forum would be an appreciated and informative thread that I would love to follow.

    I'd get it out from under the umbrella of this parsimonious pustule of a thread title and give it the visibility it deserves. It would be a great forum addition.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    ... Better to unite the center-left than split that vote 2 ways (3, if you include a slice of Greens) and enable Harper to return with a majority of seats... [with less than] a third of the votes cast...
    4 - the Bloc is definitely centre gauche also.
    Last edited by B_B; 02-13-2017 at 08:03 PM.
    "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken." (stolen from TomF )

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Does anyone on this forum live without any debt?
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    The last election wasn't about promises or platforms but the ending of the Harper regime. I voted NDP last election, first time in my life, only because their candidate had the best chance of defeating the Conservative incumbent. Turns out my new NDP MP is a pleasant lady whose mom lives in town. I'll admit I miss the old PCs, never my favourites but they where certainly a cut above the Conservative Reform Alliance Party that slithered from their corpse.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    Does anyone on this forum live without any debt?
    We do. House paid for. Older cars paid for. Vacations paid for in cash. Credit cards at zero balance. And our income is what used to be called working class. We just happen to be content to live within our means. Although Mrs JimD will be shopping for a new car in a year or two and we're not sure if we want to pay cash for it.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    I'm intrigued by the direction of this thread and suggest to Canadians that a Canadian Politics forum would be an appreciated and informative thread that I would love to follow.

    I'd get it out from under the umbrella of this parsimonious pustule of a thread title and give it the visibility it deserves. It would be a great forum addition.
    I think it was tried a couple years ago and went nowhere.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    I think it was tried a couple years ago and went nowhere.
    We were much too boring, even for ourselves.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    We were much too boring, even for ourselves.
    But it was a great cure for insomnia. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    We were much too boring, even for ourselves.
    And too polite

    How do you get 25 drunk Canadians out of your pool?

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    How do you find the Canadian in a crowded room? Go around the room stepping on toes until someone says "I'm sorry".

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    Default Re: Canada's PM Trudeau breaks key campaign promise

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    I'm intrigued by the direction of this thread and suggest to Canadians that a Canadian Politics forum would be an appreciated and informative thread that I would love to follow.

    I'd get it out from under the umbrella of this parsimonious pustule of a thread title and give it the visibility it deserves. It would be a great forum addition.
    The thing about our politics Lew, is that they are seldom very dramatic. With a few exceptions, most of us prefer discussion to conflict. Not that things don't get passionate now and again. The current PM's father put down an armed insurrection in Quebec in 1970 with pretty brutal force. Overall, we have very high participation rates in general elections, and the whole country made itself heard over the Separatist crisis a few years ago. We have as many heated issues as anywhere else, but we remain fairly calm as we deal with them.

    A few of the key differences between us, I think, are:
    - the fact that we vote for our local MP, and the leader of the party that wins the most seats is the PM. We don't vote for the leader, although the leader has to get elected as an MP to serve as PM.
    - The PM chooses a cabinet from among the elected MPs.
    - Our senate is a vestige of the UK House of Lords, and pretty much meaningless.

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