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Thread: Gartside # 207

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    The other point of building upright, especially on a larger hull, is that work on both planking and interior can be ongoing at the same time, maybe not an issue if working single handed, but on a larger boat with several workers, building right-side-up can be of some benefit. For home builders, turning boats over of this size can take up a lot of time or expense. Overhead working is something that has to be done, counter-weighting tools can help. Long-boarding is an exhausting job anyway, though granted a little less painfull working below shoulder level. Pros and cons with each method.
    Doing a grand job.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Regarding just the hull construction, I wonder what the time penalty is for strip then 3 x veneer layers right side up rather than downhand ? The builders must think there is sufficient advantage in having the interior available for fit out to make the hull inconvenience worthwhile .
    Peter, the decision to build upright was only felt and not calculated, but took some thinking fore and back. Turning a hull so beamy (nearly 4m) was believed to be a big hassle, that should be avoided - this was the main argument. Also, building a keel assembly seperatly and lower it down later then onto the building jig is an unused thing here, probably because all the traditional craft here, the kaikis and trechandiris, are build upright. These two points combined with the easy accessability of the hull until it would be planked made the decision. Interestingly, the question of a difficult sanding was no point at all - perhaps because the decision maker doesnīt sand himself?
    Thomas
    -----------------------------------
    panta rei

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Thanks for the response Thomas, I'm going to watch the planking and veneering process with interest .
    She's going to be a beautiful boat !!
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Thomas, could you take a few close ups of the stem rabbet ? It looks interesting .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    And some pictures of the boatyard itself?

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Quote Originally Posted by Max F View Post
    And some pictures of the boatyard itself?
    OK Max, I'll be down there around Cristmas and will take some photos.
    Thomas
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    panta rei

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    That would be nice. Thanks
    Max

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Seconded, thanks .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    And the build goes on.

    The deck is framed. View onto the fore deck




    with the mast partnebr />





    and onto the aft part of the boat.

    Thomas
    -----------------------------------
    panta rei

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Then the mast step was made an fitted to the floors




    and also the cabin sole is being prepared:




    And then work starts on the bulkheads, beginning at the chain locker. I opted for the traditional staved design, here to be seen on the workbench




    and try fitted to the boat:




    Thomas
    -----------------------------------
    panta rei

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    They seem to be moving quite well Thomas. Tell me , will the hull be fibereglassed over the wood?

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Oh yes, Andrew, absolutely. Planking material is soft WRC, I think the enforcement here will greatly add to my low maintenance goal. Plan specifies a 200g/m^2 cloth that we will apply by help of peel ply, and I'm already thinking of some additional layer(s) on areas where bigger use can be expected, e.g. at the bow, where the anchor sooner or later will kiss the hull.

    I experienced the virtues of a glassed the hull many times now with my Romilly: A contact of the glassed hull with the hard leaves a scratch, with the unglassed stem a crater.
    Thomas
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    panta rei

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    The bulkheads are going in.

    Here's a close up of the chain locker bulkead: Relatively broad staves of WRC, V-grooves in between and a endpiece of Iroko, as this bulkhead does not connect to the deck beam, but reaches up only half way to allow access to the chain locker:







    And here a view of the bulkhead between main cabin and foc'stle:





    Thomas
    -----------------------------------
    panta rei

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Why did you choose WRC for the cable locker? I'd have thought you'd want something harder and not a soft wood like WRC. Great choice for weight savings up in the bow though.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
    Why did you choose WRC for the cable locker? I'd have thought you'd want something harder and not a soft wood like WRC. Great choice for weight savings up in the bow though.
    Good question, WRC for the bulkhead probably because I have it - it's the hull material and lying around. The bulkhead will be glassed in the inside to protect if from the chain, the hull in the chain locker area will get a hard wood lining for the same reason.
    Thomas
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    panta rei

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Our chain locker is WRC that has been glassed over.



    We have a 5/16" all chain rode. Even though the WRC is relatively soft, the fiberglass has prevented any dents from the chain.

    A couple of years ago, I lined the chain locker with Dri-Dek tiles, not to prevent dents, but to lift the chain away from the wood to improve air circulation and drainage. If you do this, you shouldn't need the hardwood lining.


  17. #87
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Thanks, Dave, Dri-Dek or similar seems to be a good idea, I'll save this for later.
    Thomas
    -----------------------------------
    panta rei

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    An excellent idea !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    And on we go. The Yanmar arrived - engine in a box:




    The first layer of planking has started from top down, so that the deck may be laid later on:




    The gushers (?) have been modeled already into the first hull layer, giving also a first impression on the height of the top rail over the deck level:






    Side view:

    Thomas
    -----------------------------------
    panta rei

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Hi Thomas, I see that the frame heads have been bought through the deck and inside bulwarks. Is that how P.G. Drew them for this boat ? The plans for 116/109 that I have just have a built-up bulwark on top of deck.
    I have often wondered about strength of bulwarks without inside frames but on the other hand i wonder about sealing around frames through deck. No doubt you’ve had much discussion with your builder on this?
    edited... or perhaps they are just to form planking and cut off later?

    BTW the word you’re looking for is “scuppers”
    Last edited by andrewpatrol; 12-13-2017 at 07:32 PM.

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    She's looking great: enjoying following along with this one.
    PeterW

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterWidders View Post
    She's looking great: enjoying following along with this one.
    As am I. The right side up strip planking then veneers application will be an education.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Raised sheer like that with scuppers can make a deck feel more safe, and can do wonders to hide a high house, i would rather bring the deck up to the top of the frame head and deck them in. It appears to be an area that always leaks, given enough time, so will be interested in the tecnique that will be used. Glass in the chain locker a good idea, though how much weight a bit of ceder saves over hardwood in a chainlocker is not worth debating. I moved chain stowage aft to the mast foot area on my last cruiser, and she was less wet after the move.

  24. #94
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    As am I. The right side up strip planking then veneers application will be an education.
    ... an education: I hope not for the builder!
    Thomas
    -----------------------------------
    panta rei

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpatrol View Post
    Hi Thomas, I see that the frame heads have been bought through the deck and inside bulwarks. Is that how P.G. Drew them for this boat ? The plans for 116/109 that I have just have a built-up bulwark on top of deck.
    I have often wondered about strength of bulwarks without inside frames but on the other hand i wonder about sealing around frames through deck. No doubt you’ve had much discussion with your builder on this?
    edited... or perhaps they are just to form planking and cut off later?

    BTW the word you’re looking for is “scuppers”
    Scuppers, yes.

    Regarding the deck design: I have thought on this and also had discussions on this with the builder, but we are convinced that the original design is a good one:

    You see, the frames will be cut away just over shelf, then comes the deck over all, a massive, 2*15mm cold molded veneer affair. Then there is a filler piece to the inside of the hull over the deck level, and a closing cap over both hull and filler. An epoxy fillet goes into the corner between filler and deck, and then comes the glas over the deck. Isn't this convincing?

    The left long frame ends therefore have done their duty now: They were needed to build the inner layer of the hull over deck level and will be cut away now as soo as the planking of the deck starts.

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    An update again. Some overview pics first:






    and, while we are at the overview, some photos of the boatyard as requested:







    Thomas
    -----------------------------------
    panta rei

  27. #97
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    And then some details. View from salon to the foīcīstle:



    Row of bulkheads



    First layout of the sofa on the bulkhead



    Try fit of mini bulkhead at the nav station



    and view from foīcīstle back to the salon:

    Thomas
    -----------------------------------
    panta rei

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    The frames were partially cut over deck level



    while some last are still standing:



    The engine sits on it's bed



    and the frames were bolted to the floors:



    All in all I think nice progress. Next now is furniture, cockpit and deck house.
    Thomas
    -----------------------------------
    panta rei

  29. #99
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Thanks for taking the time to post these photos Thomas, I love seeing the rapid progress of a professional yard.

  30. #100
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Very nice!
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Yes indeed! a joy to follow.
    I love the different approach of building steps!

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    And on we go. First layer of deck, 15mm WRC, is nailed and glued down longitudinally to the deck beams:







    For the deck planking to go in place, all frame heads have been cut down now: We finally have a deck!



    After fairing, the second deck layer layer is being prepared. Again 15mm WRC, this time arranged diagonally. This layer will be glued down on the first one with epoxy, held in place for curing with plastic staples.



    And then there is the cabin sole: Hemlock on a carrier of plywood, that will be locked into the first layer of the hull as the deck shelves had been locked into:





    The Hemlock sole will be oiled and is looking good (to my eyes). It is rather bright in color, why we have decided to use Hemlock for are all inside trim. This in combination with mostly white painted furniture, bulkheads and ceiling should make for a bright interieur.

    Next comes the form for the 3,7 t lead keel!
    Thomas
    -----------------------------------
    panta rei

  33. #103
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Hello Thomas!
    Nice to see the fast progress!
    I am watching with big interest.

    Matti

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    Thomas,
    I'm loving the pictures of your boat, design and construction methodology. The shop is great looking with all the other projects underway. I do have a question about the floors. I don't see any scuppers along the keel. I might be missing something or maybe not?

  35. #105
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    Default Re: Gartside # 207

    They are there Navy, two pictures up above and zoom in.

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