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Thread: Campion Apple

  1. #1
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    Default Campion Apple

    After a fair amount of consternation and generally overthinking things, I've finally started building the Campion Apple 16 (discussed in design forum here http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...mpion-Apple-16). It's a 5 chine stitch and glue yawl rig that appears to be fairly straight forward to build (I've built several dinghys, but nothing this size).

    I'm starting with the spars because temperatures can be a bit dicey for epoxy work in New Hampshire this time of year, and although I have a nicely insulated shop, I need to get 3 1500 watt space heaters to keep it at a good temperature when it gets really cold. I figure with the spars, I can always tent them to get the temps I need and I expect they will be good practice for things to come. So far I just finished the birdsmouth glue up of main mast and I'm pretty happy with how it's turning out so far. All the glue lines look pretty tight and it's straight (I'm pretty sure that is a good thing). I won't bore anyone with details since it's been documented a bunch of times in the forum, but it's a standard 8 sided birdsmouth spar with the top 1.5 meters tapered (last 300mm has largest taper). The only somewhat different approach I took was to glue it up in 2 sections so I could fit the top and bottom plugs. If you're interested, I wrote up all the gory details at www.fernhollow.net

    Hopefully I'll start turning it into a circle tomorrow.

    Here's a link to some photos, not sure why I couldn't embed them on the page: https://goo.gl/photos/qaopJy8d7RN8APeA7

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Good work so far. You obviously know a thing or two about building spars.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Perfect I also have plans for this boat, are you going with the light air rig, as fickle as morning wind can be here it seems like a way to go.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Quote Originally Posted by capefox View Post
    Good work so far. You obviously know a thing or two about building spars.
    Thanks for the kind words, but it's my first spar. Reading many of the threads on this forum helped me find my way. To be fair though, I've pretty much spent my whole life playing with bits of wood. I hope everything else continues to go well, but I'm bound to make some expensive mistakes along the way and will have to re-do something.

    Here's a photo of the start of getting the thing round today. I knocked off the edges with a power plane to make 16 sides, then 32 with a jack plane, then I went to 80 grit paper. I think I should have tried for 64 before I went to the sandpaper, but I think it will end up fine, but more dusty work than anticipated.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Smith porter maine View Post
    Perfect I also have plans for this boat, are you going with the light air rig, as fickle as morning wind can be here it seems like a way to go.
    Excellent, are you planning on building soon? I'd like to find a few more builders of this design; I've been corresponding with another forum member who built his in 2007, but it would be great to find others who are mid build.

    I plan to go with the standard rig, as I will be spending at least part of the time down and around Cape Cod and the islands where the wind can really pipe up... With that said, I am looking forward to using this for the Maine island trail. Where are you in Maine?

    -matt

  6. #6

    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Probably next fall, not being a wood worker I have started making the pieces for a Bolger cartopper for some practice. I am 40 miles west of Portland on the New Hampshire line, Freedom New Hampshire is 3 miles west of me.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    The Cartopper should be a fun project, I considered doing one a few years back but settled for a smaller dinghy (D4) for my A35. I'm about 1.5 hours South West of you in Canterbury NH. I used to spend a fair amount of time up in your area on Ossippee Lake and in Madison.

    Last night I didn't have much time, but spent about 30 minutes doing some more sanding and shaping the top of the spar. I'm approaching round but there are still a few high spots (mostly along glue lines) that I need to take care of and then have a lot of finish sanding. I've seen some elaborate lathes and belt sander jigs to get a nice round profile, but I'm not sure I want to invest that much time for a few pieces. I think If I was building a lot of spars it might make sense, but I may try gluing some sandpaper to the inside of half of a pvc pipe for final shaping. I think I have seen some others do this as well. Any other simple methods that people have tried with good results?

    The top plug in the picture is a nice piece of mahogany that served as a cockpit support beam on my former Alberg 35. I found it when I was rebuilding the cockpit sole and couldn't bring myself to throw it in the trash. I'm glad I didn't, it was a lovely piece with such tight uniform grain that is was a pleasure to shape with the plane and should serve as a nice accent on the spar even though it won't be visible when the mast is up.



  8. #8
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    I did a bunch more sanding last night and I'm pretty close to the final dimensions for the bottom and top (tapers from 90mm diameter to 50mm starting 1500mm from the top). I'm actually about 93mm and 53mm respectively, so I have some more work to do, but I decided to weigh it and it came in at 25 pounds (15 foot spar). Doesn't that seem heavy for a birdsmouth spar? I realize I'm using Douglas Fir which weighs more than Sitka, but I couldn't justify paying 3 times the cost. I'm also following the designer's recommendation to have the bottom meter solid, but I've been reading some of the other birdsmouth threads with people coming in at ~15 pounds for equal or longer spars and I'm wondering where I went wrong or should I just live with it?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Fir can be pretty heavy stuff, and that's a fairly tall mast. I suppose the most important consideration is this: do you feel like your spar is light enough that you can handle it easily by yourself? If so, then no worries.

    I've always gone with solid masts for simplicity. I kind of think birdsmouth makes the most sense when you go all-out to try and make it as light as possible, which isn't going to happen with Douglas-fir. But there's nothing horribly wrong with using a heavier-than-optimal birdsmouth spar. If it bugs you later on, you can always replace it with a lighter spar if you still think it's necessary after getting a few hours of sailing in.

    Other may have varying opinions, of course.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Thanks Tom,
    I'm not worried about being able to wrestle it into place, I'm a big monkey at 6'5" and 250 lbs and have frequently stepped lightning masts which are 26' and minimum 35lbs (per class rules). I was more worried about performance considerations. I will probably ask the designer what his take on it is as well, but I thought I'd ask here since there have been so many that have built birdsmouth masts and the weights seem so low compared to mine.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    It's been a busy month and I haven't been able to spend as much time as I'd like on the build, but I managed to come to terms with the weight and got the final mast spar down to 23 pounds so I'm reasonably happy with that. I also built up a birdsmouth mizzen mast and main boom along the way and I'm still debating whether I need to do the main yard in birdsmouth or will the weight savings aloft be negligible? I still need to do the boomkin in birdsmouth fashion, but I'm feeling that it's time to move on to the hull. With that said, I bought six sheets of 6mm Okume Marine Ply this past weekend and got started on scarphing (scarfing?) them together.

    I made a circular saw jig with some melamine shelving and 2x4 blocking similar to something I found online. It has an 82degree angle on the face which gives me roughtly the 8:1 ratio that was recommended. I mounted it to my manning bench and tried out a few test pieces. Everything went well and so I went to town on the real plywood. It was perfect except for one corner on the first piece that curled up a bit and caused more of a cut than I wanted, but it was easily cleaned up with a sander.




    Once I had all six sheets cut and cleaned up with a sander, cleared out a space on the floor, laid some plastic sheeting down, and test fit the first two sheets. Then I mixed up a small batch of epoxy with some 404 thickener (runny ketchup consistency) and spread it on both joints before covering with plastic and 'clamping' in place with a 2x6 and a heavy toolbox. The next day I pulled it apart and cleaned up the squeeze out and started on the next set of two sheets. I laid them right on top of the first set and it gave a good alignment guide and provided cold protection from the cement floor. The first scarph took longer than I had hoped to cure, and I'm pretty sure it was because even though I had heat on it, the side facing the cement was probably pretty cold. Anyway, all seems well at this point and I hope to have the third (and final) sheets glued up and cured by tomorrow afternoon.

    Then I can actually start laying out the panel lines. I expect that by the time I'm done with that task I will be pretty sick of it, but I'm pretty excited right now to get started even though it will probably get pretty monotonous in short order.



  12. #12
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    None of your photos are showing :-(

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Quote Originally Posted by capefox View Post
    None of your photos are showing :-(
    Oh, lets try this again... Let me know if I get it right this time.

    Circular saw scarphing jig:


    After cut:


    Scarphready:


    Scarph glued and 'Clamped':

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Excellent. Now I can enjoy your blog. Such a lovely design.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Well, I said that I was excited about laying out the strake dimensions on the scarphed plywood panels; and now that I just finished 3 hours on my knees, I guess I should be careful about what I wish for. I finished gluing up the scarphed panels last night and by lunchtime I was able to clean up the epoxy squeeze out and got started on the marking out the strakes this afternoon. It's not terrible work and somewhat satisfying, but mostly monotonous, and I can see how it would be easy to screw up by misreading or transcribing one of the coordinates wrong. I ended up getting two strakes completed. I think it will go a bit faster tomorrow now that I have dialed in my method, but I'm being as careful as possible and will be double checking everything before making any cuts.

    I see why people pay to have a cnc cutter do this step, but I'll keep plugging away (but might pick up a set of knee pads to make things more comfortable). I took several pictures, but it's a bit hard to see anything of interest.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Made a bunch of progress marking and cutting out the planks tonight. I got the second 2 planks marked out in a lot less time than the first 2 and made the call to use my circular saw instead of jig saw to cut out the planks. I also stacked and cut 2 scarphed panels together so I wouldn't have to measure or trace out the second set. I still have strake number 5 (both sides) and the keel strake to cut out, but if all goes well, I may actually be able to get started putting the hull together in the next few days.


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Finally got all the strakes cut out and planed to the line and had enough time tonight to start stitching things up. It was pretty awkward going (the strakes kept flopping around) until I cut out the station 5 outside form and bolted it to a mini strongback and placed the partially stitched strakes into it to keep things stable. From there is was just a matter of drilling and stitching until my fingers started to hurt from pushing all the zip ties through the holes. In the end I was able to get the keel strake and strakes 1 and 2 stitched up. I was happy to find that once the ties were pulled tight, I was gap free everywhere and it was all straight. Hopefully strakes 3, 4, and 5 will go well too and I won't find any big mistakes in my measurements.



  18. #18
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    It's starting to look like a boat now, last night I finished stitching up the hull, bulkheads, and transom. I didn't run into any major issues, but had to apply some twisting force to get everything in line. Now I am tiptoeing around it so I don't knock it out of whack before fileting and taping it up. I'm glad this portion of the build is done, drilling and zipping up ~300 zip ties was starting to get old.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Still plugging along, and I'm feeling like I might actually finish this thing in a reasonable amount of time. So far I've been having lots of fun with a bunch of small, yet manageable problems to solve and no major screw ups. Today I finished sheathing half the hull, and will get the other half done tomorrow. I'm hoping there will be minimal fairing to do, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed anyway. I just hit the 3 gallons of epoxy mark.

    The condensed version since last checking in: taped the inside seams w/50mm 6oz tape, fileted in bulkheads and transom, added outwale, flipped the boat, clipped the ties, filled the outside seams, added stem, added forward keel, taped the outside seams with 75mm 6oz tape, did a quick round of fairing, sheathed hull with 6oz cloth.

    By the end of the weekend, I hope to have the hull entirely sheathed and I'll move onto the daggerboard trunk. I've already started on pieces of it, but haven't put it all together yet nor have I cut out the hole in the hull. I'm a little wary of that cut, and I want to make sure I have all my measurements correct before I make it.



  20. #20
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Nice. Super job. Awesome blog.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Thanks capefox, I'm pretty happy with the outcome so far, but I know my final product will pale in comparison to some of the works of art I've seen on the forum. I keep telling myself that I'm going for a functional finish and not to sweat the small stuff too much. I figure that the first rocky beach or ledge I slide up on will be less painful for me knowing that I wasn't going for a 'showroom' finish.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Some boats are built for shows and others for use. Like yours, mine is the latter. Last year the kids put a bunch of scratches in the bright-work and we hit a floating log way out in the lake that knocked some paint off the bottom. The kids will have fun memories of carefree sailing and fishing with Dad not of him growling at them not to ruin the paint.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    I've been fairly busy on the boat over the last few months and I can start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I may actually finish for a late summer launch if my luck holds out. I've flipped the boat and done the majority of the interior framing. The boat is getting heavier now and is probably in the 150-175 pound range so I can't really pick it up myself anymore and I felt like it was time to get it on a trailer so it could be moved in and out of the shop without too much fuss. So after a few weeks of looking in local craigslist ads and being generally disappointed in the selection, I decided to pull the trigger and buy a new trailer. I did a fair amount of research before deciding to go with a Karavan KBE-1250. It's a basic galvanized small boat bunk trailer with a torsion suspension instead of leaf springs.

    Anyway, I'm trying to figure out the best way to setup the trailer for the boat. My son and I basically plunked it down and adjusted it fore and aft so the tongue weight wasn't too bad, but because of the rocker of the hull, the bunks never fully touch the hull (see the picture below). Also, there is one roller forward that the forefoot rests on, but nothing aft. I think that I should add a roller aft that supports the weight on the skeg, but I'm not sure. Is that a good idea? Also, is it bad to have the bunks not fully touching the hull? I think they would touch a little more if I moved them further inboard, but I don't want the boat to become unstable.

    Any thoughts on best practices would be greatly appreciated.
    thanks


  24. #24
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Galleywench,

    The picture isn't showing for me on your last posting. I'm no expert on trailers but hopefully others can help.

    Woody

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Maybe this one will work?


  26. #26
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Quote Originally Posted by galleywench View Post
    Maybe this one will work?
    Sorry, no. Can -you- see them?

  27. #27
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Noto View Post

    Sorry, no. Can -you- see them?
    Apparently it's a permissions thing with Google photos. I've haven't had this issue in the past, maybe Google has changed some default settings.

    This link should work (famous last words):
    https://goo.gl/photos/iNapDvHWbdWWDsQbA

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    I wouldn't worry about the bunks as they are in the photo, but I'd definitely want more support for the keel--either additional rollers or a plank down the centerline of the trailer. I'd want the weight of the boat on the keel, with the bunks just keeping it from tipping over.

    Nice looking boat!

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Thanks, I was hoping that additional support via some extra rollers would be sufficient. There is just too much rocker in the hull for those bunks to provide full support regardless of where I located them on the frame or how I move the boat fore and aft on the trailer. There are 2 curved cross beams that should allow for 2 more rollers to help support the weight.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    As usual, the summer months are way too busy and carving out big blocks of time to work on the boat has been a challenge, but I've tried to get to the shop and pick away at the list almost every day. Since June, I've managed to get most of the interior fitted out and while most of the major work is done, I'm still fiddling with the hatch assemblies in the forward compartments and fitting the floorboards before I can call it complete. From there I'll need to do a coat of epoxy on the upper interior strakes and I'm hoping I can enlist the help of a few friends to get the interior sanded. With a little luck and plenty of beer, I'm pretty sure I can get the interior sanded and ready for primer over the course of a long afternoon.

    Hopefully these pictures will show (I've had my difficulties with permissions from google shared album). More pictures and details at www.fernhollow.net



  31. #31
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Now that the summer is really winding down, I have been pushing to get as much done as possible. I had hoped to get it done sometime in August, but that's just not going to happen. I am pushing up against a hard stop date on Sept. 7 when I will be getting my second hip replaced and will be out of commission for all but easy tasks for several weeks. Knowing this, I want to finish up as much of the bending, crawling, and general heavy lifting as possible before the 7th. I built out the rudder cheek assembly from 18 mm thick marine ply (3x6mm epoxied together), and used douglas fir strips epoxied together and shaped for the actual blade. For the mounting chocks on the hull, I glued and screwed shaped mahogany pieces for the upper and lower gudgeon mounts (per the plan) and I'm using Racelite RL490 pintles and gudgeons from Duckworks.


    Dry fit for chocks.


    Dry fit for rudder assembly. Now that it is lined up I still need to shape the assembly so it's not so blocky and determine where the tiller arm will be located (Norwegian tiller) before leveling off the top.

    I also faired and primed 3 rounds and got 2 coats of Kingston Gray on the hull. Many, many hours of sanding, but I'm fairly pleased with the result. It's not perfect, but it will work for me.

    My helper kept lying down on the job.


    Fairing out the chine tape lines after primer scratch coat.


    First coat of paint.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    After a short hiatus to let my new hip heal a bit, I've been back at it doing lots of odd jobs that don't require any major lifting. A good chunk of the past 2 weeks has been devoted to getting the rig ready to go and I'm pretty close to something that resembles a workable arrangement. I spent a good deal of time learning building the mast gate arrangement, learning to leather, treating the spars with Deks Olje D1, and generally trying to figure out this whole balanced lug thing. I don't have the boomkin or the main or mizzen sheets rigged yet, but everything else seems to be generally in the right place, but those of you that are experienced with balanced lugs, feel free to critique the photo below. I'm pretty sure I have the main sail pulled up to high, so I'll have to set a mark on the halyard or vang to set that and the outhaul is probably cranked in more than it should be.


  33. #33
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Very nice!
    __________________________________________________ ________________________

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Looks like a great boat--good work!

    Others with more knowledge may weigh in, but I've been sailing lugsails for a while now; here are a few thoughts on the rig photo to start with:

    1. I'm not sure what the plans show, but the halyard seems to be attached to the yard pretty close to the center. I'd be tempted to try moving the halyard attachment point a little forward along the yard, closer to the 1/3 point rather than the 1/2, and see how things set. It looks closer to correct on the mizzen to me.

    2. I think you may be right about needing less outhaul on the foresail.

    3. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing you have used individual ties to attach the head of the sails to the yards. That's how I like to do it, but yours look a little too tight to me, in both foresail and mizzen. Keep all the ties even, but slack them off a bit so the sail is not held so tightly to the yard as in the photo. I've generally loosened up my outhaul and yard ties quite a bit from when I started sailing lug rigs, and things have improved the more I allow a little more room in the initial sail set-up. Obviously when it's really windy, you'll be cranking the downhaul and outhaul tight to flatten the sail. (Do you have lines/cleats set up to adjust the downhaul? That might be a worthwhile addition if not).

    Edit to add: here's a photo of my boat where you can see the sail ties are a little looser--seems to set really well this way:

    DSCN3310.jpg

    Looks really good, though--you'll be playing around with adjustments for quite a while, which is all part of the fun. Enjoy!

    Tom
    Last edited by WI-Tom; 09-27-2017 at 07:31 PM.
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Campion Apple

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Looks like a great boat--good work!

    Others with more knowledge may weigh in, but I've been sailing lugsails for a while now; here are a few thoughts on the rig photo to start with:

    1. I'm not sure what the plans show, but the halyard seems to be attached to the yard pretty close to the center. I'd be tempted to try moving the halyard attachment point a little forward along the yard, closer to the 1/3 point rather than the 1/2, and see how things set. It looks closer to correct on the mizzen to me.
    Thanks Tom, I'll have to recheck the measurements for the attachments on the yard, but I believe I have those set to 1325mm on the main and 520mm on the mizzen called out on the design. I certainly could have gotten it wrong though.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    2. I think you may be right about needing less outhaul on the foresail.
    I added a cheek block to the boom so I could easily adjust outhaul, seems like it will probably come in handy to set the sail draft depending on conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    3. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing you have used individual ties to attach the head of the sails to the yards. That's how I like to do it, but yours look a little too tight to me, in both foresail and mizzen. Keep all the ties even, but slack them off a bit so the sail is not held so tightly to the yard as in the photo. I've generally loosened up my outhaul and yard ties quite a bit from when I started sailing lug rigs, and things have improved the more I allow a little more room in the initial sail set-up.
    I was wondering how tight to get the sail up to the yard, it makes sense to back off a bit and allow for the sail to shape properly along the yard.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Obviously when it's really windy, you'll be cranking the downhaul and outhaul tight to flatten the sail. (Do you have lines/cleats set up to adjust the downhaul? That might be a worthwhile addition if not).
    I have an outhaul and a 6:1 downhaul setup, but the designer also suggests using a vang as well to optimize performance. I think I will have enough to worry about at the start and will just be running the downhaul.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Edit to add: here's a photo of my boat where you can see the sail ties are a little looser--seems to set really well this way:

    DSCN3310.jpg

    Looks really good, though--you'll be playing around with adjustments for quite a while, which is all part of the fun. Enjoy!

    Tom
    Lovely, I'm very jealous. I've spent most of my free time since January working on this boat and I'd really, really like to splash it and at least get it out for one sail before winter. We'll see.
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