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Thread: I hate this President.

  1. #36
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Pull up a chair and watch the Weasel Fights, coming soon to a video screen near you:

    Don Don vs his brother Grease Ball, The Blonds with accents vs the Corn-fed Blonds. The Cabinet Members against one another, and against other officials appointed by Trump Almighty. Trump against virtually everybody else, except for the Billionaires, although there will be only a few of those. And both the Democrats and the Republicans vs Rudolph Giuliani

    On the side lines there will be numerous other skirmishes such as the confrontation between the Ministry of Civilian Armaments and the Second Amendmenters who will be stripped of their guns.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    It's damn hard not to hate him if you love the rest of humanity.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    The Republicans have ingeniously for political ends been feeding the fear and hate (anger) through lies for many many years.

    With Trump, ironically, they lost control of it.
    You can believe this, I suppose, but it's not a winning message, no one will vote for it, it won't feed the kids of the working poor, it creates no unity. It's a dead meme.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    [...] it's not a winning message, no one will vote for it, it won't feed the kids of the working poor, it creates no unity.[...]
    And crapping on about Obama's non-existant 2011 ban on Iraqi refugees, along with crowd sizes, and Bowling Green Massacres will?

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  5. #40
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    You can believe this, I suppose, but it's not a winning message, no one will vote for it, it won't feed the kids of the working poor, it creates no unity. It's a dead meme.
    I agree. Fear, hate, and lies trump the truth.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    You can believe this, I suppose, but it's not a winning message, no one will vote for it, it won't feed the kids of the working poor, it creates no unity. It's a dead meme.
    Democratic fecklessness does not excuse TeaPublican perfidy.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post

    but then He speaks and I shudder over the sheer moronic incompetence.
    So, I know I have to incorporate a defense so the shudder doesn't set in too deep, knowing it is going to get worse once the legislature begins to vote on this anti-American values agenda.
    Today's simple declaration is that, if you are in favor of Betsy DeVos, you are an enemy. Unconditional. Then I go on into the day.
    Study Peace

  8. #43
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    fear hate and lies
    Sticking with the meme also means that you don't need to do the hard work of reevaluating the liberal message or reconsidering policy in determining how the party can represent people sufficient to win elections.

    Respectfully, the idea that people had to be duped into not voting for Mrs. Clinton in critical states that Republicans had not taken in more than 30 years reveals a fairly substantial cognitive disconnect.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    The Republicans have ingeniously for political ends been feeding the fear and hate (anger) through lies for many many years.

    With Trump, ironically, they lost control of it.
    There is more to it. The GOP has steadfast refused to acknowledge the real problems or work toward viable solutions. They oppose investment and innovation, choosing only lower taxes as the solution to all things.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    I completely agree Joe.

    Mickey said what I wanted to. My goal is to do my little bit to reach people who are reachable. I think there are real alt-right racists. They're unreachable. I think there are people who are afraid, and find simple quick answers, ideally blaming someone else, appealing. They're reachable. There's people who hated Hillary Clinton and for God knows what reason thought she was worse than Trump. (I know LOTS of these people, all of the Republicans, and they have regrets.)

    Trump has little support. He's losing more every day. Congress is doing nothing, but pretty soon they're going to have start voting on Trump ideas and will be increasingly nervous. He's going to face resistance.

    Play the long game. Protest if you want (I have). But we gotta work at getting the middle to see that Trump is leading us towards really bad stuff. That won't be hard. More love, less hate, more wag, less bark.

    We can do this. Have faith.
    Your approach is OK, I guess.

    The simple math on it is that those morons have made their bed, and they are trying to make the OTHER 80% OF US lie down in it.


    The people who need to be 'reached' are the ones whose apathy has allowed this moral vacuum to grow.

    If the entire population of eligible voters had actually VOTED, then President lard-butt would be in a padded room somewhere in Moscow, waiting for his next 'treatment'.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Work for secession and plan for leaving.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

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  12. #47
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    only 20% voted for Trump
    This is also a dead meme, contextualizing the entire challenge solely on the Presidency. Trump goes away and it's Pence. It's Congress. Statehouses. Governorships.

    Trump goes away and the Republicans still run everything.

    The rage would remain, the hatred. People wouldn't have been any more pleased to see Ted Cruz in this position.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    Sticking with the meme also means that you don't need to do the hard work of reevaluating the liberal message or reconsidering policy in determining how the party can represent people sufficient to win elections.

    Respectfully, the idea that people had to be duped into not voting for Mrs. Clinton in critical states that Republicans had not taken in more than 30 years reveals a fairly substantial cognitive disconnect.
    No I get it. I really do. I've long thought Hillary a particularly unattractive candidate. As far as answers to our current political crisis, I have no immediate answer. Nor do I need one today. I'm willing to be patient. Despite setbacks, our nation has moved progressively and steadily to the left, generation after generation. I think it will continue to do so. I even think a Trump presidency could accelerate it through a backlash.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    I still have confidence that if through burps, farts and attacks of sciatica America lurches towards a completely avoidable nuclear conflict over the South China Sea, the Baltics (less likely), or something in the Middle East, the toddler will be summarily replaced.

    There is a resistance made up of genuine patriots within the civil service, the intelligence community (and even Congress!) who will remember their oaths to defend the Constitution and act, one way or another. It is becoming ever clearer that Pence presents a more comprehensive threat to the political culture expressed in statute and regulation over the past 60 years, but his administration would be survivable. In contrast, we are only 2 weeks in and a number of plausible options for America's security to be threatened by Trump's incompetent and malignant bungling have presented already.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  15. #50
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    No I get it. I really do. I've long thought Hillary a particularly unattractive candidate. As far as answers to our current political crisis, I hove no immediate answer. Nor do I need one today. I'm willing to be patient. Despite setbacks, our nation has moved progressively and steadily to the left, generation after generation. I think it will continue to do so. I even think a Trump presidency could accelerate it through a backlash.


    No
    OK, but this is a pretty serious bump in that road. Democrats have never been this powerless.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Your approach is OK, I guess.

    The simple math on it is that those morons have made their bed, and they are trying to make the OTHER 80% OF US lie down in it.


    The people who need to be 'reached' are the ones whose apathy has allowed this moral vacuum to grow.

    If the entire population of eligible voters had actually VOTED, then President lard-butt would be in a padded room somewhere in Moscow, waiting for his next 'treatment'.
    Shrug. It's how democracy works.

    I'm not a political liberal. My calling is to pull conservatives away from the fear, hate, and lies.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Joe, You ask what you can do? You are a smart, articulate, passionate advocate for your point of view. I say use those qualities and skills to connect with and motivate like minded people. Get organized. Back away from the angst. Step back from hate and anger and focus on rationality. Write about your POV in any outlet possible. Write on Facebook, Linked-in and anywhere else you find. Write, speak, persuade, convince - but refrain from ranting. Present your arguments without vitriol. Speak truth to power. Anger is a powerful motivator, but it is the tool of your opponents. Meet it with reason. Meet it with common sense and conviction. It's risky for your social standing and perhaps for your business, but it may be the price you have to pay.

    Norm

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  18. #53
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    With Trump, ironically, they lost control of it.
    Clearly. I'm not sure they fully recognize what they've done. I do think that they will make use of Trump so long as he approves what agenda they propose and what changes they desire to see. When they're done with that, I think they will move to impeach him, putting Pence in place. I will be interested to see whether Pence pushes out some of Trump's White House staff in favor of others whom he trusts.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  19. #54
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    Shrug. It's how democracy works.

    I'm not a political liberal. My calling is to pull conservatives away from the fear, hate, and lies.
    You'd better get busy. Minnesota is about to flip. Pool all the votes for Republicans in that state in 2016 and Trump wins that one too. Think of that. Minnesota, for crissakes.

    I think the only two Republicans to win there are Nixon and Teddy Roosevelt (Bull Moose). Reagan couldn't even do it. This isn't fear, hate and lies. People don't believe Democrats represent them. That such a thing could occur in Minnesota (of all places) is proof enough of that.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Why does Karen come to mind.
    "Congress doesn't regulate Wall Street, Wall Street regulates Congress."

    MAKE WAY! MAKE WAY! "I have heard of some kind of men that put quarrels purposely on others."

    As a general rule, the better it felt when you said it, the more trouble it's going to get you into.

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  21. #56
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    This is also a dead meme, contextualizing the entire challenge solely on the Presidency. Trump goes away and it's Pence. It's Congress. Statehouses. Governorships.

    Trump goes away and the Republicans still run everything.

    The rage would remain, the hatred. People wouldn't have been any more pleased to see Ted Cruz in this position.
    Yes, it is a dead meme. 20 to 25%, or there abouts, is roughly all any president gets, or any leader in most multiparty democracies. That's the way it works. That's what a legitimate mandate to rule amounts to in the USA and in my country, too. Although Australia might be something of an exception since voting is mandatory. And Cruz was awful, too. The Dems might have won if they'd run anyone but Clinton and hadn't presumed she'd win. But of course they did. And now the 'racist, xenophobes, science deniers, liars, idiots, uneducated, bullies' have a man they can relate to. This presidency is shaping up to be America's Great Leap Backward. Bummer.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Harrow View Post
    Why does Karen come to mind.
    Bless your heart, Ed.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  23. #58
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    I agree and empathize with Joe and others who have commented here. I think that a basic element of the problem is that, over the last 20+ years (since elimination of the Fairness Doctrine) the RW has built a media machine which has successfully manufactured an alternate reality (Democrats hate America, Obama is Muslim, they are coming for your guns, etc.) which about half of the population has accepted. Trump's dark description of US society in his inauguration speech illustrates that vision, even though it does not at all resemble the world I actually live in and see around me in my community. That said, I am mindful that about one out of every two people I meet very likely voted for DT. Some of these have made comments to me based on the assumption that I (an old white guy) must be like them. I generally disabuse them of such assumptions by telling them that unsolicited political statements are not welcome.

    To give myself the illusion of power to resist this administration, I have entered both my senator's and my congressman's phone numbers and email addresses in my phone had have begun calling about every confirmation vote on the calendar. Its not much, but at least it lets me feel I am doing something.

    My biggest fear is President Bannon.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Harrow View Post
    Why does Karen come to mind.
    Good For You
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  25. #60
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    I'm with you Joe.

    Here's a place to start.

    https://99waystofighttrump.com/?key=61697849

  26. #61
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    The Democrats' unwillingress or inability to countenance viewpoint diversity is at the very core of how Donald Trump became President, imho.

    It is, in the end, the most un-American of intolerances.

    Once again, think about it.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    "Viewpoint diversity" is fine; "Alternative facts" are not. Intentional erosion of the institutions of civil society isn't so great either.

    FWIW, there's a rather impressive literature out there, developing since the mid 1970s (and much of it written by conservative American scholars) on the key civil society pre-conditions which must be in place for Constitutional democracies to prove durable. Most of this was written in the context of trying to promote a transition towards democracy in parts of the world where various types of authoritarian regime were in power.

    It is almost like the Trumpists have used that empirical literature as a guide to how to best cripple an existing Constitutional democracy.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  28. #63
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, count on it SB.
    PaulF

  29. #64
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    He is the absolute antithesis of EVERYTHING I hold dear. Everyday this administration makes me sick. His tweets are REPULSIVE. I don't know what to do. I don't know the best way to deal with it. Trumps presidency makes me sick. He is the worst of what I think America is suposed to be. I've never felt this way about politics. I mean I dealt with George W. I wasn't a fan or Reagan. I would vote 10X for Mitt Romney or even Mccain even with Palin. Sh!te I can't take this. Everyday it just keeps getting worse.
    You complain a lot. I do too.

    What are you going to do personally to challenge the direction that enabled Trump to usurp the controls of power and further goals of the Oligarchy of this Republic?
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulf View Post
    For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, count on it SB.
    Oh, undoubtedly. That's just historical. The pendulum will swing back. It always does. But Democrats have a lot of work to do to get the momentum swinging the other way.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    enabled Trump to usurp
    No, let's at least keep it real. By all accounts (including those given by President Obama, DHS head Jeh Johnson, and AG Loretta Lynch), President Trump was elected in a fair, clean, Constitutional election, despite the best efforts of many to overturn it (including illiberal and undemocratic partisans on both the Left and the Right).

    These partisans are the threat to our democratic republic, not President Trump.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    President Trump was elected in a fair, clean, Constitutional election....
    ...only if you are wilfully ignoring the tampering with our election process by the Russians, or the highly unprofessional behavior of James Comey. Admittedly, it's impossible to gauge how much effect these things had... but anyone who tries to suggest that they DIDN'T have an effect, is an idiot. Nobody is denying that the voting process was legitimate (with the possible exception of Trump himself!).
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
    --- Charles Pierce







  33. #68
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulf View Post
    For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, count on it SB.
    Inertia is powered by the opposite energy, physics 101. So in that regard the Trump Administration is already doing all the heavy work needed for a forceful return to a even more progressive liberal democracy . Combine that with the women's movement we've seen and the groundswell of unprecedented opposition in just the first few weeks.

    The only down side is a Nuclear war with Iraq, or China, or terrorist attacks from radicalized muslims recruited from his banning policies etc may happen before the pendulum swings back
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  34. #69
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    ...only if you are wilfully ignoring the tampering with our election process by the Russians, or the highly unprofessional behavior of James Comey. Admittedly, it's impossible to gauge how much effect these things had... but anyone who tries to suggest that they DIDN'T have an effect, is an idiot. Nobody is denying that the voting process was legitimate (with the possible exception of Trump himself!).
    Norman I'm also willing to accept that Hillary was an unelectable candidate.
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  35. #70
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    Default Re: I hate this President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    No, let's at least keep it real. By all accounts (including those given by President Obama, DHS head Jeh Johnson, and AG Loretta Lynch), President Trump was elected in a fair, clean, Constitutional election, despite the best efforts of many to overturn it (including illiberal and undemocratic partisans on both the Left and the Right).

    These people are the threat to our democratic republic, not President Trump.
    No, that's a "Fake News" whitewashing, Blue.

    By all accounts, the actual conduct of the balloting which elected Trump was fair and clean. As a result of that balloting, Trump won a majority of the Electoral College votes, though the margin of his Electoral College victory ranked a meagre 46th out of 58 Presidential elections which America has conducted. Certainly not by the "landslide" and "historic" triumphant margin he's claimed.

    And the conduct of the Election itself (the campaign) was uniquely marred by interference by foreign powers whose interest was to promote Trump's chances and negatively affect his rival's. This was compounded with an unprecedented partisan FBI intrusion into the election campaign (stirring controversy about Clinton, while not sharing even better-founded negative information about Trump).

    The balloting was "fair, clean, [and] Constitutional," but the election was not. That is the threat to your Constitutional Republic.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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