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Thread: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

  1. #36
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    Tap Out seems to be a thing of the past. It was apparently nitric acid. There is a video comparing nitric acid to alum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pN-fnUeA3o Alum did remove the tap. The language in the video would displease Scott, but I suppose he might hesitate to ban me if I tell y'all not to watch it.

    In the video, the nitric acid didn't work. I remember a demonstration in a corrosion class where a piece of steel in concentrated nitric acid was passivated, but it reacted rapidly in more dilute nitric acid, once the surface was scratched. Point is that in the video, the guy didn't know squat from Shinola when it comes to chemistry, so he might have had a solution that would have worked if he knew what concentration to use. Jury is still out in my book, but even with my cavalier attitude toward hazardous chemicals, nitric acid is not your friend. Your skin will turn yellow if you don't get it all off and that takes some effort. DAHIKT.

    If you have a welder, the ATF-acetone would be my first choice, then alum, then HCl, then nitric. The lop it at the base with surgery trick depends on the damage tolerance and ability to repair. I have gone there on a Corvair block with a broken cylinder head stud and broken easy-out in the hole. It wasn't pretty.

    The pressure that corrosion products can generate is amazing. It can lift a plate and break bolts. Al oxide generates something like 7 times the volume of the consumed metal.

    Someone mentioned a hollow drill approach. Something like a carbide grit hole saw might work if there is enough metal that the oversized hole is tolerable. 5/8" is the smallest I found http://www.anotheramazingproduct.com...-hole-saw.html
    Going try these ideas this or next weekend. We shall see.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by Hill160881 View Post
    A 50/50 solution of 4 molar muriatic acid water will dissolve the rust and aluminum oxide. Steel expands 5 times its non oxidized size as it rusts. Anywhere that stocks pool supplies will have it. Don't let the acid touch finished gasket or fine tolerance areas as it dissolves aluminum as well but much slower. This works every time as long as you can get enough in the area. I use this in old two strokes found in pwc. Chemistry is good
    Thanks. Going to try your idea tommorrow. We shall see.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by SNAPMAN View Post
    ALUM....(Potassium Aluminum Sulfate) will dissolve steel without affecting aluminum. I broke off a tap in an aluminum fixture I was building and heated the part in alum/water in an old enameled pot. It fully dissolved, you could see it bubbling out of the hole. You would likely need to build a dam around the hole and heat up the block a bit to hasten the reaction. Alum is commonly used for pickling, I bought a bag of it for 99 cents with 4 ounces at a discount grocery.

    Alan
    https://sites.google.com/site/helium12sofsailboat/
    I ordered some to try out and also to have around since I use a lot of taps from harbor freight tools. Looks like very interesting stuff.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by leop View Post
    Easier said aid than done. I have to lay on my side stuffed between the turn of the bilge, the motor and blower, and a huge water tank above me. I have to hit the center of the bolt perfect and then gun drill a five inch long bolt. I need to do all that with the power off because I need lay over 115v wiring from 1948.

    Then again this this would be a perfect excuse to buy that Mag Drill I have been wanting! You know, suddenly this sounds like a great idea!
    I have a Bux drill...

    Edit; They (magnetic base drills) are over rated. It is going to be a tough job no matter how you do it.
    I did not realize the engine was still in the boat.
    Last edited by Canoeyawl; 02-10-2017 at 03:23 PM.

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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    ALUM is the least toxic chemical that could do the job. If you look at the MSDS (and it is always a good idea to do so), it is an irritant, not really toxic. Wear goggles, gloves, use good ventilation as you should with any chemical reaction or operation that generates fumes or dust.

    Alan
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    The blower is usually slid toward the front of the engine to disengage the drive shaft and only then can it be pulled straight out parallel to the block. I can only rock the blower back and forth a tad and get a wedge shape with the fat end being 1/16 of an inch; should have been more clear about that. I assume the bolt is bending, not moving.

    Since first posting I did try to remove the end plate of the blower in hopes of getting access to the bolt from inside the unit, but the rotors are frozen solid due to the same Alu corrosion holding the bolt.
    Oh boy. Didn't realize that the blower doesn't pull straight off. But of course the drive shaft placement would require it to move forward. Makes sense. That changes everything though. Given the close quarters you are working in I have to say at this point I would be thinking seriously about pulling the engine out. But yes, one of the various corrosion-dissolving techniques does seem like the best approach short of that. Good luck!
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  7. #42
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Not sure how old this thread is, but I had an old BMW 2002 that had a nearly impossible to remove cylinder head. Seemed to be the same basic issue as you have. The guy that finally removed it made some mention of ATF.

    I suspect the ATF acetone idea may not be half bad. The acetone will give it serious penetrating ability without adding a corrosive agent, and the ATF will make things slippery. I am not sure if the volume change of aluminum oxide is that big a factor. it may well be higher volume, but it is also presumably lower density, since little has changed in terms of the number of atoms. I suspect the issue is simply friction over the entire length of the bolt.

    Scott
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  8. #43
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by leop View Post
    ohh drink the stiff drink and then pour it over. If by that you mean that I should drink the stiff drink and the pee all over that f$@&ing little engine then I am all for that.

    another project for the meteors ?? Well if you and other reasonable people on here hadn't convinced me otherwise I would be putting those in, instead of messing around with this little 4-53. Then they would have torn the boat in two, she would have sunk, my wife would have been happy, and then would have been a good time for another project

    Actualy I'll probably sell two of the meteors to some guys in Lake Tahoe that are building replicas of Garwoods and Smiths two racers from the 20's or there about. I'll probably keep the third one for a COE truck project that is next in line after the boat.

    Hmmm, sell the engines, have a stiff drink, pee on the 4-53s, and then start the COE engine. Now that's a plan I can get behind!
    You did understand me about how to condition the drink before application. It would be a shame to waste it, but recycling is all the rage these days. But who are you callin' reasonable? Sheesh, you will ruin my reputation. MIT built a hangar to house a B-29 at Hanscomb AFB back in '53 to demonstrate an inertial guidance system. I have been told that when the hangar was finished the facility managers had a small, informal christening ceremony involving a bottle of whisky. It was observed that it was shame to waste a perfectly good bottle of whisky by breaking it, so they decided to drink it first, then line up and discharge it on the onto the hangar door.

    Alum is not as toxic as table salt. Salt Acute: 3000 mg/kg [Rat.]. . Alum: Acute: 9000 mg/kg [Rat.].
    Last edited by MN Dave; 02-10-2017 at 02:17 PM. Reason: Scott, 8 days. the posts are all dated
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  9. #44
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogeniac View Post
    Not sure how old this thread is, but I had an old BMW 2002 that had a nearly impossible to remove cylinder head. Seemed to be the same basic issue as you have. The guy that finally removed it made some mention of ATF.

    I suspect the ATF acetone idea may not be half bad. The acetone will give it serious penetrating ability without adding a corrosive agent, and the ATF will make things slippery. I am not sure if the volume change of aluminum oxide is that big a factor. it may well be higher volume, but it is also presumably lower density, since little has changed in terms of the number of atoms. I suspect the issue is simply friction over the entire length of the bolt.

    Scott
    Hi Scott,

    Sorry I didn't call this last weekend. I appreciated the offer to talk over the boat, but by the time the weekend came around I was so discussted with the boat that she was the last thing I wanted to think about.

    I don't know how tight the "Chinese finger trap" is holding that bolt, but I suspect that it's pretty tight AND also stuck at the threads as well.

    I plan to try the acetone and ATF this weekend. We'll see.

    Anyway thanks again for the offer to talk, I'll probably take you up on it. I never heard from Mrs 102's owner, but if he has anything encouraging to say now would be a good time to say it. This boat is like a woman I knew: Was once beautiful, is older now but still demands the attention she got when she was younger, and is almost just about ready to go to bed with you, but at the last second can't because she needs just one more tiny thing. But soon she says just one more thing and..,,,,,,,,

  10. #45
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    I once sold high-end maintenance welding supplies, rods, wire, etc. One of the tricks they taught us was using Cronatron 338 arc welding rod. We would ground the engine block / head whatever and then actually strike an arc and weld the rod to the end of the broken bolt. We commonly did this on head bolts. Often times the heat and the fact that you now had a handle would allow you to turn the bolt out of the block. If more force was required then Kroll oil and a vice grip was helpful. I watched it work several times with great success. I also tried it a couple of times with less luck. Obviously the better the weld to the offending bolt the better the luck. It wasn't easy to crawl around under the hood of cars and trucks but it could be done. Just a suggestion, your mileage may vary. The 338 rod was all position rod that would weld through grease, oil and whatever. I haven't worked for Cronatron for many years but remember the success that we had. I'm sure that there are other rods that may do the same trick. I only tried it with our product. We made calls to potential buyers and then went and demonstrated the products so we could sell them. Good luck.

    Drift Boat Rick

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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by Drift Boat Rick View Post
    I once sold high-end maintenance welding supplies, rods, wire, etc. One of the tricks they taught us was using Cronatron 338 arc welding rod. We would ground the engine block / head whatever and then actually strike an arc and weld the rod to the end of the broken bolt. We commonly did this on head bolts. Often times the heat and the fact that you now had a handle would allow you to turn the bolt out of the block. If more force was required then Kroll oil and a vice grip was helpful. I watched it work several times with great success. I also tried it a couple of times with less luck. Obviously the better the weld to the offending bolt the better the luck. It wasn't easy to crawl around under the hood of cars and trucks but it could be done. Just a suggestion, your mileage may vary. The 338 rod was all position rod that would weld through grease, oil and whatever. I haven't worked for Cronatron for many years but remember the success that we had. I'm sure that there are other rods that may do the same trick. I only tried it with our product. We made calls to potential buyers and then went and demonstrated the products so we could sell them. Good luck.

    Drift Boat Rick
    Brilliant Rick!!!!!! My tig welder weighs a ton and I really didn't want to lug it, and the bottle all the way up to the boat for 10 min of welding. I'll go get some and try it out with a lighter welder.

    Ill report back as to how it works.

    Thanks! And mY back thanks you too.

    leo

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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I have a Bux drill...

    Edit; They (magnetic base drills) are over rated. It is going to be a tough job no matter how you do it.
    I did not realize the engine was still in the boat.
    Really, they are over rated. I kind of suspected they were but there are so many people that rant and rave about them that I figured I was just being too skeptically harsh on them. You know though for $500 - $900 bucks you would expect it to be one hell of a tool. Thanks for opinion.

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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by leop View Post
    Really, they are over rated. I kind of suspected they were but there are so many people that rant and rave about them that I figured I was just being too skeptically harsh on them. You know though for $500 - $900 bucks you would expect it to be one hell of a tool. Thanks for opinion.
    If you need to drill a mess of say 3/4" diameter holes in a highway bridge, a truck frame or remove broken head bolts on a big diesel the Bux drill is irreplaceable. (I have two of them 1/2"and 3/4" chucks)

    For precision work you will need a fixture with a drill bushing, and a center drill which Is done all the time. For this job, as a last resort I think a fixture could be fastened/clamped to the intake side of that blower and indicated individually to each bolt, but... I would worry those bolts until I broke them before I set that up, and then I would locate from the hole or the remainer of the bolt. Hex bolt heads are not concentric. The Bux drill will only keep it square.
    Probably a real torch - Oxy-Acetylene with a #2 or 3 welding tip concentrated on the blower housing at each bolt would get everything excited enough to move. If nothing else, it will help the penetrating oil to wick into the work. I would do this first, and repeat it several times, over the course of a few days.

    (I do this sort of thing, broken and or seized fasteners,as part of my business, in machinery and it is routine) good luck!

  14. #49
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by leop View Post
    Hi Scott,

    Sorry I didn't call this last weekend. I appreciated the offer to talk over the boat, but by the time the weekend came around I was so discussted with the boat that she was the last thing I wanted to think about.

    I don't know how tight the "Chinese finger trap" is holding that bolt, but I suspect that it's pretty tight AND also stuck at the threads as well.

    I plan to try the acetone and ATF this weekend. We'll see.

    Anyway thanks again for the offer to talk, I'll probably take you up on it. I never heard from Mrs 102's owner, but if he has anything encouraging to say now would be a good time to say it. This boat is like a woman I knew: Was once beautiful, is older now but still demands the attention she got when she was younger, and is almost just about ready to go to bed with you, but at the last second can't because she needs just one more tiny thing. But soon she says just one more thing and..,,,,,,,,
    Rusty can be very hard to pin down.

    PM or email me your number and email, and I'll set up a time when we can go meet at Miss 102. See will be either at the St. Francis YC in SF, or out in the Delta, or at Rusty's house in Walnut Grove.

    Persevere!

    Your boat is historic, and not worth giving up on!

    There comes a time when the list stops growing, and things can linger without gnawing at you.

    S
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    If you need to drill a mess of say 3/4" diameter holes in a highway bridge, a truck frame or remove broken head bolts on a big diesel the Bux drill is irreplaceable. (I have two of them 1/2"and 3/4" chucks)

    For precision work you will need a fixture with a drill bushing, and a center drill which Is done all the time. For this job, as a last resort I think a fixture could be fastened/clamped to the intake side of that blower and indicated individually to each bolt, but... I would worry those bolts until I broke them before I set that up, and then I would locate from the hole or the remainer of the bolt. Hex bolt heads are not concentric. The Bux drill will only keep it square.
    Probably a real torch - Oxy-Acetylene with a #2 or 3 welding tip concentrated on the blower housing at each bolt would get everything excited enough to move. If nothing else, it will help the penetrating oil to wick into the work. I would do this first, and repeat it several times, over the course of a few days.

    (I do this sort of thing, broken and or seized fasteners,as part of my business, in machinery and it is routine) good luck!
    Yes, I knew all along I would need a jig I just kept lying to myself because I hate to build a tool that I plan to use once, well hopefully once.

    I have some 1/2 inch plate for the base, and 1/4 inch for a frame. I also have some drill rod with bearings that fit it. I guess I'll need to turn a taper on the shaft for a drill chuck. I hate turning tapers! Oblong holes to line it up? Ohh I remember, it was the special drill bit that I didn't want to buy. The bolt is at least five inches long. I can't gun drill the bolt that far and expect the bit to exit in the center of the bolt can I? The last long gun drilling bit I bought was from Japan, and man was it expensive.

    Well thanks for the encouragement.

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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond


  17. #52
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by leop View Post
    ...The blower is aluminum and the engine block...
    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I have a Bux drill...

    Edit; They (magnetic base drills)
    We did give upon the bux?
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Thats a conventional twist drill, which in my experience will wander off center and eventually bust out of the bolt shaft and proceed to do damage to either the blower or block.

    In the past I have gotten around this limitation by using a "gun drill". A gun drill will run more true than a twist drill and is used for high depth to diameter ratios. These bolts are five inches long, and hardened according to one DD source. So was thinking better safe than sorry.

    More on the fascinating gun drill can be learned here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_drill
    and here: http://www.unisig.com/information-an...-gun-drilling/

    The worst part is that you have no idea the twist drill has wandered until it pops out somewhere. It might run true, but my luck has more often resulted in it going way off center.

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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    We did give upon the bux?
    Well I'll I don't have a bux drill so to use one would require a fairly large purchase. It was also pointed out that they are not as great as they have been touted to be. I'll look into renting one, but by the time I machine a steel plate for it to clamp on to I might as well go ahead and weld two bearings down and taper cut a shaft to save myself $900.

    I have been trying to by a used one for some time but all these magnetic drills hold their value very well and a classic like bux has almost a cult following. You have to keep an eye out for them and move fast when a good one is up for sale and be prepared to pay top dollar.

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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by leop View Post
    Thats a conventional twist drill, which in my experience will wander off center and eventually bust out of the bolt shaft and proceed to do damage to either the blower or block.

    In the past I have gotten around this limitation by using a "gun drill". A gun drill will run more true than a twist drill and is used for high depth to diameter ratios. These bolts are five inches long, and hardened according to one DD source. So was thinking better safe than sorry.

    More on the fascinating gun drill can be learned here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_drill
    and here: http://www.unisig.com/information-an...-gun-drilling/

    Best of luck

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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by leop View Post
    Yes, I knew all along I would need a jig I just kept lying to myself because I hate to build a tool that I plan to use once, well hopefully once.

    I have some 1/2 inch plate for the base, and 1/4 inch for a frame. I also have some drill rod with bearings that fit it. I guess I'll need to turn a taper on the shaft for a drill chuck. I hate turning tapers! Oblong holes to line it up? Ohh I remember, it was the special drill bit that I didn't want to buy. The bolt is at least five inches long. I can't gun drill the bolt that far and expect the bit to exit in the center of the bolt can I? The last long gun drilling bit I bought was from Japan, and man was it expensive.

    Well thanks for the encouragement.
    Thats quite a long bolt. A spotting drill is a good and cheap way to get off on the right foot if you go the drilling route. My money would still be on welding being the cheapest, quickest,easiest and most effective method. This is the type of problem I get called out to solve for people quite often. In some cases it requires centre drilling and then steadily working away with dremels/die grinders/right angle drills with carious micro carbide bits and some wax, but in most cases the combination of a mig welded nut on the bolt plus some wax gets the job done. My service truck has a 15kva genset with a mig on a jib with a 15' gun but if I have to get inside something I just take the welder with me and use extensions leads. I usually charge about $80 for something like that. Most of the time is in driving and setup.

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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Most of the time is in driving and setup.
    Ah yes, but it's a long drive from Sydney to Southern California, eh Shaun? Might be a tad more than $80 AUS for that job!
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Ah yes, but it's a long drive from Sydney to Southern California, eh Shaun? Might be a tad more than $80 AUS for that job!
    I'm willing to offer a greatly reduced hourly rate for the travel ;-) the point was there's probably someone in your area that specialises in stuck fastener removal. Every major city has at least one guy who pretty much only removes stuck fasteners. Usually you can get hold of them by ringing around local bus company's, truck repair companies etc.

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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    One more try with the hole saw idea. It is obviously a good idea on account of I thought of it. At least as good as drinking the booze before peeing on the engine. I found a thinner wall and smaller diameter (well, it looks thin in the picture). If you can drill through the mess between the bolt and the housing without removing too much housing, you might be able to guide the drill bit if still needed without really tearing up the hole.

    http://www.anotheramazingproduct.com...hole-saws.html
    Now if you could just sneak a gun drill down the center of the diamond drill... What, go find a stiff drink and stop typing at you? Oh. OK. well, right. Bye.
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Best of luck
    Thank you,

    If you have any other ideas or products please recommend them. You have experience with using jigs for this sort of thing and I don't because I usually just throw my problem onto the mill and wamo bambo, it's out. It's not going to be that easy this time

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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    So I went up to the boat this last weekend and took to this bolt. I tried the Alum and it was doing something but was too slow for the limited time I had, and I didn't feel comfortable just leaving it to work while not being there for the week. Same with the acid.

    I applied a lot of heat but the blower is a huge heat sink and I am not sure if much of it got to the bolt.

    One thing that occured to me is that the bolt might protrude into the air box. I have to pull the cylinder liners to free some stuck pistons and when I do that I should be able to get a torch into the air box from the non-blower side and heat the bolt directly on its "back side" aka the threaded end. This may also be the best place to drill it out from since the threads are right there, not five inches away.

    The only catch is that I would have to drop the oil pan and unbolt the connecting rods from below. I think there is room to do that. What there may not be room for is a few hammer blows to the rods in order to get the rod, piston, and liner to move up, and out of the block. Perhaps a crow bar through the inspection holes to the air box could be used to "motivate" the liners out??

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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by leop View Post
    So I went up to the boat this last weekend and took to this bolt. I tried the Alum and it was doing something but was too slow for the limited time I had, and I didn't feel comfortable just leaving it to work while not being there for the week. Same with the acid.

    I applied a lot of heat but the blower is a huge heat sink and I am not sure if much of it got to the bolt.

    One thing that occured to me is that the bolt might protrude into the air box. I have to pull the cylinder liners to free some stuck pistons and when I do that I should be able to get a torch into the air box from the non-blower side and heat the bolt directly on its "back side" aka the threaded end. This may also be the best place to drill it out from since the threads are right there, not five inches away.

    The only catch is that I would have to drop the oil pan and unbolt the connecting rods from below. I think there is room to do that. What there may not be room for is a few hammer blows to the rods in order to get the rod, piston, and liner to move up, and out of the block. Perhaps a crow bar through the inspection holes to the air box could be used to "motivate" the liners out??
    Seriously Leo! By the time you have done all of that I have to think you would be better off yanking the motor. At which point you have many other options for dealing with it.
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Seriously Leo! By the time you have done all of that I have to think you would be better off yanking the motor. At which point you have many other options for dealing with it.
    I have also thought about that. But, there is no hatch way access for a direct up pull. My options would be to: cut a hole in the cabin top, cut a hole in the house, or strip the engine down to the point where me and a couple of other guys could lift it. So far stripping it down is the only option I am comfortable with. But, by the time I have it stripped down I might as well just do an in-frame rebuild. The motors only show 3000 hours before the disaster occurred, there is no corrosion in the head or pan, none on the cam or balance shaft either.

    Am I being overly concerned about having to cut a hole in the cabin roof to get the engines out? Is it no big deal? The roof is fiberglass over plywood. It is arch shaped, but I don't see any ribs so I have no idea how they got that arch shape into it. My main fear is the cutout will spring flat and that I'll then have a heck of a time getting it back in and arched correctly.

    My weakness in this adventure is woodworking. That's why i tend to be conservative about that aspect of repair. I guess a wooden boat may not have been the best option for me LOL

  29. #64
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Hmmm. Yeah, that does change things a bit. Sorry Leo. I'm all out of suggestions now. I think you gotta go ahead with the plan you are comfortable with.
    - Chris

    https://fvpetrel.wordpress.com

    Life is short. Go boating now!

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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    I wish there were more old timer shipwrights around. I would gladly pay them to come and explain to me how that plywood was arched with no ribs. Mind you it's from 1948 so I don't think it's laminated but there must be a way to find out what happens if you cut a hole in it.

    For the love of God, why do people do these things? Why would you let the boat sink in the first place. And when you raised it would it have been that hard to pickle the engines? I have never seen shoddy workmanship as that I have seen in boats. What is it about boats that causes people to do their worst work? It's not just my boat - a lot of boats I looked at buying had been real nice until about 10-15 years into their life. At that point the workmanship goes way down to the point of being dangerous. Gas fired home water heaters!!! speaker wire with 115V on it???? stuck open through hulls with wooden plugs driven in AS A PERMANENT FIX?

    I noticed you also have a 4-53 engine your boat. Are you happy with it (i have never heard one run) and does it make much noise?

  31. #66
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    The blower is seized,isn't it?
    How much is good /rebuilt one?
    I'd be tempted to put the sawzall through it and get at the bolts from the clean dry side,instead of pissing with the wet dirty innards.

    R(who hasn't touched a Detroit since the mid 80s
    Last edited by Ron Williamson; 02-15-2017 at 07:35 PM.
    Sleep with one eye open.

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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    A reman blower is $500-$1000 on eBay so not something you want to casually cut up, but I agree - not out of the question. Certainly might be worth doing that before a full in-frame rebuild on a motor that doesn't necessarily need one.

    Leo, I have a 3-53 in Petrel. Pretty similar to your 4-53s though. It's very noisy but I do like it a lot. My loyalty to the DD was secured when it started right up after sitting for over a year - and that after being half-submerged for who knows how long. And I have high hopes of taming the noise with better soundproofing. With the size of the engine room you must have, given that your boat was originally powered with 671s, I have to think you can get enough sound barrier in there so noise won't be a problem. And I assume your motors are wet exhaust, which will help. I have a friend with twin 4-71s in a boat of similar size to yours and I think they are plenty quiet enough.
    - Chris

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    Life is short. Go boating now!

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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Yes, the blower is seized but most places said they would accept it as a core so long as the case and rotors do not look overly pitted. My plan was to rebuild the blower, and if too much Alu is missing from the rotors and case I would send them out for and extra thick anodizing.

    Yes the engine room is fairly big and the 3-53's look pretty diminutive in there. There should be plenty of room for sound insulation.

    Half submerged does explain all the rust. As I recall you also had a pair of 6-71's in your speed boat and them as well right?

    At my wife's request I did a lot of work trying to quiet down the 6-71's before I decided to try and make these 4-53's run so if your interested in that let me know and I'll put together a quick thread. I have assumed the same things that worked on the the 6-71's will work on the 4-53's and a 3-53.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Williamson View Post
    The blower is seized,isn't it?
    How much is good /rebuilt one?
    I'd be tempted to put the sawzall through it and get at the bolts from the clean dry side,instead of pissing with the wet dirty innards.

    R(who hasn't touched a Detroit since the mid 80s
    Hi Ron,

    Yes the blower is seized and the core. However it's still good as a core and the core charge on them is around $450 around these parts.

    If I didn't have to pull liners and pistons I agree with you, It would be saw time. But since I do I was thinking that coming in from the air box might allow me to save the blower.

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    Default Re: How to free a steel to Aluminum corrosion bond

    At my wife's request I did a lot of work trying to quiet down the 6-71's before I decided to try and make these 4-53's run so if your interested in that let me know and I'll put together a quick thread. I have assumed the same things that worked on the the 6-71's will work on the 4-53's and a 3-53.
    Thanks Leo. I think I went down the same road. My list of links probably looks a lot like yours Although I also have a ton of stuff on dry stack setups as well since that's what I have on Petrel. And if you haven't signed up for a membership on boatdiesel.com yet then I HIGHLY recommend that site. Membership is not free, but it's cheap and the site is a tremendous source of info. In fact, not sure why I didn't think of this before, but that would be a great place to look for advice on getting the blower off.
    - Chris

    https://fvpetrel.wordpress.com

    Life is short. Go boating now!

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