Very true, and I believe Bolger's lifelong argument was just this -- that for many people, the best solution to their boating needs was not the mainstream craft, and he worked tirelessly to get this point across. But he did draw conventional sloop rigs when he saw this as the best sail plan on a given design.
Phil Bolger consensus?
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Re: Phil Bolger consensus?
Very true, and I believe Bolger's lifelong argument was just this -- that for many people, the best solution to their boating needs was not the mainstream craft, and he worked tirelessly to get this point across. But he did draw conventional sloop rigs when he saw this as the best sail plan on a given design.-Dave -
Re: Phil Bolger consensus?
As I say, I used to have the fantasy of giving Bolger a design brief that ended with, "And by the way, make it beautiful."
An aside: Folk who have followed building Meg Merrilies (nee "LastBoat") know that I had our own Michael Mason work out four major changes: Moving all ballast outside; High roach fully battened three cornered main and mizzen; changing the two port transom to a gallery window; and breaking the cabin trunk aft of the main mast and picking it up a little enlarged over the forepeak. These last two are both functional and aesthetic, Michael earned his fee right there (especially the fore house) getting those lines just right, and I like to think both LFH and Bolger are smiling on the results.Comment
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Re: Phil Bolger consensus?
Thanks for an interesting thread. I think consensus is one thing I might not have thought possible when assessing Bolger's catalog if participants look at the full breadth of his work, excepting perhaps the use of the term eclectic.
I have two of his books, “Small Boats” and “Boats with an Open Mind.” I just picked up the latter for the day racing schooner that was also featured in “Boat Design Quarterly” No. 2. I find it hard to love all his work, but that is also true for the work of my favorites - Rhodes, Mylne, and the collection of designers in the Alden office. I think Tad is correct in saying a few are “really superior.” I’d venture to say “at least a few.”
I don’t have Tad’s skill set to know if the schooner is one of the really superior designs, but I know that it and other designs by Bolger strike a chord. It’s hard, in fact, to keep his Harbinger catboat off the lofting floor. I imagine the breadth of his work has inspired many, many builders and not a few designers.
If I had to pick one word to define Bolger’s work though, I’d say provocative.Comment
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Re: Phil Bolger consensus?
Although I have not built nor seen a Phil Bolger designed boat, his work has taught me almost everything I know about boat design. I have read Boats With an Open Mind literally dozens of times and have committed most of the text to memory. If there are books by other authors that can teach the fundamentals in such an enjoyable and intuitive way I'd love to know about them! He is a brilliant writer, regardless of how you like his designs. As to my experience of his boats I only have a 1/2 scale teal (to satisfy my interest in the straight cut side panel sharpie shape, (my interest went no further)) and a brick, both of which are unsatisfying boats (for me). But man did I learn from them! And rowing a brick, perversely, makes you see just how awesome the advanced sharpies could be. I don't want to rubbish Bolger designs in the slightest, I have deep respect for them, but my feeling is that there are better designs now available in comparison to Bolger's instant boats and his smaller plywood designs. And you can bet that folks like John Welsford and Ross Lillistone have been heavily influenced by Bolger. The other observation I would like to make is that Bolger was a champion of the first time or inexperienced builder and perhaps sometimes simplified his designs accordingly. This is a great thing if it makes someone take a leap of faith and start a project, feeling the task to be within their ability, but in reality the finishing is what takes time (on a plywood boat), and I don't believe, especially on larger boats, that the time saved in an extremely simplified hull shape is worth the compromise.
My consensus is that Phil Bolger is a legend and may his spirit guide the hand and thought of many a boat builder to come.
I have had years of pleasure and education from my dog eared copy of Boats With an Open Mind and I relish my next Phil Bolger book reading. Any recomendations?Comment
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Re: Phil Bolger consensus?
Met him on a few occasions including lunch on a rainy day at his house in Gloucester with Suzanne. It was a most memorable experience as we talked boat design and my boat "Redwing", Triple Keel Sloop for a Dry Out Mooring Different Boats Design #328 in particular. Genius.
Woodenboat Show Mystic.Without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.Comment
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Re: Phil Bolger consensus?
Phil Bolger and Dynamite Payson got me started building boats. They presented boatbuilding as an achievable goal in my life and I took the bait. These days, after five or six boats, I'm not sure if it was a blessing or a curse but those two men opened a door for me that will never be closed. I never built a Bolger boat but I did build an "Instant" boat (dory/skiff) of my own design that a buddy and I fished out of for like twenty years. I have most all of Bolger's books and like others have said, his books are a great resource for understanding boat design. Bolger was so honest about the good and bad of his various designs that it really helped a lot in understanding why some boats are good for some things but not for others.
Another enduring attribute of Bolger was his sense of humor. He wasn't afraid to find the humor in his own boat design adventures. I admire him for that.
I would have built a birdwing Bolger Beach Cruiser but he wasn't interested in having a birdwing anything but very politely wrote me two different hand written letters saying "no" to my birdwing mast invention. He said it would be too much "me" and not enough "him". At least he was honest and I respected that.
I did get to meet him in person at the 2007 WoodenBoat Show when he was being honored at the Saturday night dinner. I got to show him a model of my double dory catamaran that utilized two "Instant" built hulls. He said he liked it and that it reminded him of his catamaran oyster carrier. That was a way cool moment for me.
In closing I'd like to post my favorite all-time Bolger design, his Swedish Cruiser. It is totally impractical unless you need a very seaworthy blue water/thin water boat that can be easily solo sailed and is strong enough to take bottom almost anywhere on the planet. It doesn't even have standing headroom but is unique in that it can store a full-sized dory on its deck. If I were a rich man, I would build one very similar (except for the mast, of course).
Without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.Comment
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Re: Phil Bolger consensus?
To sort of "borrow" the title of a well-known book, "First You Have To Sail A Leeboard Boat". You'll find a fair number of opinions about Leeboards. Most are negative, for aesthetic reasons. In order to form a legitimate opinion, you really should spend some time (not just an afternoon) sailing a boat so equipped. I happen to think they lend a bit of visual interest to a sailboats topsides. The majority of the sailboats I have owned have been Leeboarders. Everything Bolger has written about them is true.Last edited by Nicholas Scheuer; 02-25-2017, 08:37 AM.Comment
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For the sake of clarity, my favorite Bolger design, the Swedish Cruiser, (shown above) is not a leeboard design but rather featured a very stout oak centerboard. The boat also had over 7,000 lbs. of internal ballast in the form of concrete and scarp steel which Bolger said added greatly to this design's ability to take ground almost anywhere on the planet. The Swedish Cruiser can be found on page 122 of Bolger's book, Different Boats.
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Re: Phil Bolger consensus?
Bolger also did a "Centennial II" design inspired by the original Centennial sailing dory, from Gloucester no less... I'm not a particularly big fan of the C II design, it is but ugly... I wonder why he didnt just do a big banks dory for ply construction and up date the original design a bit... rather than trying to make some sort of instant boat sharpie that had little connection to the very successfull original sloop rigged boat...
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Re: Phil Bolger consensus?
Great thread. Chip, your adaptation of Gypsy is hard to get out of my mind.Comment
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Re: Phil Bolger consensus?
I'm hoping to sail her one day, my friend and colleague Howard Rice was lucky enough to find out that she was for sale and now has her tucked away for when he has time out from other adventures to sail her. He's promised to have her in the water and ready for me when I get to Michigan, he gets to sail my "Spook" when he comes here.
John WelsfordAn expert is but a beginner with experience.Comment
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Re: Phil Bolger consensus?
What struck me was his "followers" almost religious attitudes. His boats may have filled a gap in the North American market but they are mostly impractical oddities as far as we are concerned down here. That about sums it up and now there are a few other small craft designers trying to market to his particular type of plans buyer. As mentioned above, there are plenty of lookers but not that many builders relatively and I think the market will become even more polarised, cheaper boxy designs and boats that end up needing money and skill to build. Perhaps Bolgers legacy will endure in the former?polite and appropriateComment
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Re: Phil Bolger consensus?
It may be one of his religious followers who created the Wiki article on Bolger, which reckons that the book New Instant Boats, written in 1984, popularised the "new" technique of stitch and glue. C'mon, tens of thousands of stitch and glue sailing boats had been afloat for years by that time.
I was reading a Bolger book the other day and was struck by some of the odd things he wrote. For example, he said that he disliked sloop rigs because the ideal forestay was perfectly straight and that required infinitely large forces. However, that is simply wrong - as many racing classes show, you can often go faster by inducing MORE forestay sag. Secondly, the oft-repeated cry 'sloop rigs need tight forestays' comes mainly from those who champion alternative rigs and don't seem to look at reality. Very popular casses such as international Etchells, International Flying 15s and International Hobie 16s have loose forestays and still go well. Bolger's call on forestays was either grossly exaggerated or simply incorrect.
He also wrote that cats had proven that when you were overpowered you should bear away and use centrifugal force to keep the hull down. If that was ever the case (and I can find nothing about it in the old cat sailing books I have) then it certainly was not true by the time he wrote the book. Cats are just like monos; you luff a bit when overpowered upwind and you bear away a bit when overpowered downwind. Bolger's odd idea lead him to believe that lee helm was better on a cat and that the best way to get it was a bow rudder. It's one of those cases where he, a person with little cat experience, decided that he was right and the entire cat sailing world, then and now, was wrong. To me, in a way that seems to be a very negative way of thinking. It's surely more positive to believe that Elvstrom, Reg Whyte, Rod March, Hobie Alter, C/S/K and others are bright guys who put the rudders in the right place because they know how to design good boats, than to believe that they were fools who put them in the wrong place.
Some of the Bolger boats are cool, no doubt. My brother has one of his prams and he reckons it's a great tender.Comment
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Re: Phil Bolger consensus?
Bolger experimented a lot, oft times well outside the boundaries that confine so many. My liking for his work is that I can look at his writing and drawings, which are generally pretty honest about the pro's and cons of a given design, and I can learn from his work.
Not all of his boats worked as intended, some were excellent and some were dogs, but there is something to learn from all of them, particularly in the field of small, amateur built boats. Much more so than many of the mainstream design houses.
One of the issues as designers, is that we are generally not in a position to experiment committing clients money so unless we are designing for ourselves, we dont dare think very far outside the box.
John WelsfordAn expert is but a beginner with experience.Comment
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