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Thread: Why not more interest in pedal power?

  1. #106
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    Default Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

    Had a quick look, human powered world records are either water or air screw. Therefore if the practicality issues can be resolved a pedal prop drive should offer the most efficient solution.

  2. #107
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    Default Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

    Weed clearance?
    Someday, I'm going to settle down and be a grumpy old man.

  3. #108
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    Default Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

    Unfortunately it's not always about efficiency. Most times it's about power and acceleration and cost. And people sure don't mind paying for power and acceleration.

    What impresses me most about the Mirage drive is the power available and Hobie seems to be offering more and more powerful versions. This is encouraging to a guy who wants to mount one on a 18.5' sail and oar and hopefully Mirage drive boat (Welsford's Long Steps).

  4. #109
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    Default Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    Had a quick look, human powered world records are either water or air screw. Therefore if the practicality issues can be resolved a pedal prop drive should offer the most efficient solution.
    You will also note the props are long and thin bladed which gives really efficient pedal power by propellor some practical problems.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Vernon Langille, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity and a quiver of unamed 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  5. #110
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    Default Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

    I'm not sure why so many leap to "efficiency" as the measure of a possibly-pedalled boat. The very fact that you're starting with pedals implies that you're looking to optimize something else: character or physical activity or massive coolness. Efficiency is fine, but to push large loads or attain high speeds, you'll probably invest in an outboard.

    Long ago (2004) I built "WalkAbout", the prototype for Phil Bolger's "Becky Thatcher" design. She's a pedalled sternwheeler. Design goals were trailerable comfort, reliability, and self-contained cruising in a canal environment. Bolger & Friends delivered everything I requested. Some snapshots are collected in two Facebook Albums ("Building WalkAbout" and "Cruising WalkAbout"), under user "Paul Everett".

    WalkAbout would have been very different if not pedalled, and possibly more efficient. She would have way less a hoot, and less interesting. I think that's worth something.
    Last edited by BeckysDad; 03-10-2017 at 10:45 AM. Reason: Lost picture I'd intended to include

  6. #111
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    Default Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

    Quote Originally Posted by BeckysDad View Post
    I'm not sure why so many leap to "efficiency" as the measure of a possibly-pedalled boat. The very fact that you're starting with pedals implies that you're looking to optimize something else: character or physical activity or massive coolness. Efficiency is fine, but to push large loads or attain high speeds, you'll probably invest in an outboard.

    Long ago (2004) I built "WalkAbout", the prototype for Phil Bolger's "Becky Thatcher" design. She's a pedalled sternwheeler. Design goals were trailerable comfort, reliability, and self-contained cruising in a canal environment. Bolger & Friends delivered everything I requested. Some snapshots are collected in two Facebook Albums ("Building WalkAbout" and "Cruising WalkAbout"), under user "Paul Everett".

    WalkAbout would have been very different if not pedalled, and possibly more efficient. She would have way less a hoot, and less interesting. I think that's worth something.
    Because you've only got 1/7th of a HP to work with????

  7. #112
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    Default Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

    Quote Originally Posted by BeckysDad View Post
    I'm not sure why so many leap to "efficiency" as the measure of a possibly-pedalled boat. The very fact that you're starting with pedals implies that you're looking to optimize something else: character or physical activity or massive coolness. Efficiency is fine, but to push large loads or attain high speeds, you'll probably invest in an outboard.

    Long ago (2004) I built "WalkAbout", the prototype for Phil Bolger's "Becky Thatcher" design. She's a pedalled sternwheeler. Design goals were trailerable comfort, reliability, and self-contained cruising in a canal environment. Bolger & Friends delivered everything I requested. Some snapshots are collected in two Facebook Albums ("Building WalkAbout" and "Cruising WalkAbout"), under user "Paul Everett".

    WalkAbout would have been very different if not pedalled, and possibly more efficient. She would have way less a hoot, and less interesting. I think that's worth something.
    For me (see post #9) it's helpful that I can row until it hurts, then pedal until it hurts somewhere else, then use the trolling motor to get home in time for supper.

    Depending on the hull design, as in mine, all three can be reasonably efficient, and there's added efficiency in diversification.

    So...there's nothing wrong with efficiency, for sure, but there are other advantages to be gained and enjoyed, and enjoyment is what it's all about for me.

  8. #113
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    Default Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    It's quite a bit more trouble setting up/designing for pedal power, for sure.

    An unmentioned advantage over rowing is that you can see where your going when pedaling.

    Here's a bit more on the subject. Please don't hijack it any more than I already did.

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...inter-Daydream
    Gib,

    That looks like a beautiful little versatile craft. Do you have a build thread on it? I didn't see it in your profile. Is that a Mirage Drive? Is there anything you would do differently?

    Thanks,
    Travis.

  9. #114
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    Default Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

    More distance = more beautiful to see.

    Less efficiency = less beautiful to see.

    Faster is more fun. IMHO.

    You can always go slower if you desire, if you have better efficiency.
    Not the reverse.

  10. #115
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    Nov 2011
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    Default Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

    Travis,

    I never did do a build thread, feel a bit guilty about that since I've enjoyed so many others and feel like I owe it.

    Anyway, here's 3 pages of photos of the build on Photobucket, pretty self explanatory.

    http://s1050.photobucket.com/user/Gi...?sort=2&page=1

    I haven't taken any more photos to show it but the hatch covers are on now, WRC held down with 1" nylon strapping, they look nice.

    Also, since I anticipate taking it camping for the summer out on the west side of Van. Island where things get pretty tumultuous pretty often I've just bought 2 of 6" diameter by 9' long ethafoam dowels that I will upholster with the same material as the seat cushions and strap along the rails as sponsons to help prevent capsizing if I wind up in that situation.

    Not Mirage, SeaCycle, modified to fit. Fortunately I was able to modify the mounting bracket on the Minn Kota Riptide 45 to fit the modified SeaCycle mounting bracket.

    Differently, hmmm. The cheeks on the rudder were about 2" too long, they extended below the surface, so I cut them shorter. The only other thing is that I want to try 8' 9" oars and compare them to the 8' oars I've been using. I'll work on them on the beach this summer.

    And before anyone asks, I chose the SeaCycle over the Mirage because it can be removed and a bottom plate installed to provide a flush bottom, allowing an extra .5 MPH when rowing. Also, it kicks up if it hits a rock, of which there are a great many.

  11. #116
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    Default Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

    Thanks Gib.

    Looks like this guy is interested in your work too.




    Is it your own design? What are the specs (length, beam, weight, draft)? Have you used the Mirage Drive? How does it compare with the SeaCycle?

    Thanks,
    Travis.

  12. #117
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    Default Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

    Looks like you may be considering building one of your own Travis, yes?

    Yes my own, but really, there's not much new under the sun.

    21' by 4' by 199 lbs. empty and maybe 3" draft. 3 to 3.5 MPH with max. 4 MPH pedalling, 3.5 to 4 MPH with max something more than 5 MPH rowing and 3.5 MPH with the trolling motor at 60% throttle, range in excess of 10 miles per charge, perhaps as much as 20 miles at 25% throttle, don't know yet.

    That's my buddy "Young Man". He has a ruptured shoulder, eats out of my hand.
    Last edited by Gib Etheridge; 03-10-2017 at 08:11 PM.

  13. #118
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    Mar 2017
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    Upstate New York
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    Default Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Christie View Post
    Because you've only got 1/7th of a HP to work with????
    Yup -- if there was any wind at all, your good options were 1) downwind and 2) tied up. The comments on complexity are also spot on -- it's easy to end up with a pedal boat as complex as a much larger typical motorboat. And we combined pedaling with a stern wheel, which another set of theological debates. . .

    Actually "pedaling" was one of my initial requirements, in hopes of leveraging time spent on a recumbent bike. We didn't have try to improve on excellent pedaling tech that's available.

    The net is, our expectations of ease of use, reliability, power and speed are met in excellent fashion by modern outboards (sigh). Unless you have uncommon requirements, like we did, the common technologies are hard to beat.

  14. #119
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    Default Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    Looks like you may be considering building one of your own Travis, yes?
    Yes, I think for my next small project I'm going to build a pedal craft. I'm thinking something pretty light though. It would be for those days when there is little to no wind and I just want something to toss up onto the car and go with little fuss. Much like my kayak but the pedaling really interests me. I'm thinking of building a Macgregor Sailing Canoe, but make it open, not decked and not for sailing but stick a Mirage Drive in it.

    I'll start a build thread on it, but I probably won't start it until next year.

    Thanks for sharing Gib - that's a beauty. Are you around Vancouver, BC area? I have a slip in Blaine. Do you ever make it down to Drayton Harbor or Birch Bay area?

    Travis.

  15. #120
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    Default Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

    When you said light weight a vision of skin-on-frame with a bit of a flat plywood bottom danced thru my head. Like a gunning dory but narrower. Like mine I guess.
    Salt Spring, and I stay the hell out of the US. Trump wouldn't let me in anyway, I criticise him.

  16. #121
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    Default Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

    trying to find a thread that covered doing the EC using the Gartside Blue Skys design. anyone help?




  17. #122
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    Default Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

    Dos anyone remember the pedal system that used ribbon of stainless steel waved from side to side?
    There was a thread on it once a long time ago.


    Re #24, I paddle my sea kayak in surf quite a lot, and it involves frequent rolling especially when in a quartering sea.
    Riding a big roller is really something special. Paddling downhill.......
    Last edited by skuthorp; 03-20-2017 at 05:43 AM.

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