Why not more interest in pedal power?

[Clarkey]

Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

The Mirage drive can be lifted from it's well, turned 180 and put back in for reverse. I always take a small paddle to use for braking and maneuvering in tight spots.

The latest mirage drive can drive in both forward and reverse without being lifted from it's well.

[Wet Feet]

Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

The chap at Dad's Boats in the UK makes his own beautifull props for his pedal drives...when he lammed up the blank you can even see he figured out the thicknesses to give himself hardwood tips.

That`s Art Edward !

[tink]

Hum
Yuloh to classic dimensions on a 12' x 30" canoe
Length Yuloh 90% LOA, 60% aft of fulcrum
(http://www.junkrigassociation.org/Re...efficiency.pdf)

Looks a tad long, but a love the simplicity. May look at different lengths. When sailing I currently paddle steer and a Yuloh would be easier than a full rudder and give me a bit of auxiliary power and a LOT (free) cheaper than a Hobie unit.




May layout the Harry Bryan design - post 8

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?200123-Flapping-foil-propulsion

[leaotis]

Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

instead of buying ready-made gear box or Mirage drive you could always build your own:




prop too:



It seemed very efficient but the the sound was the best.

[Clarkey]

Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

Hum
Yuloh to classic dimensions on a 12' x 30" canoe
Length Yuloh 90% LOA, 60% aft of fulcrum
(http://www.junkrigassociation.org/Re...efficiency.pdf)

Looks a tad long, but a love the simplicity. May look at different lengths. When sailing I currently paddle steer and a Yuloh would be easier than a full rudder and give me a bit of auxiliary power and a LOT (free) cheaper than a Hobie unit.




May layout the Harry Bryan design - post 8

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...oil-propulsion

I think an issue with a traditional Yuloh in sailing applications is that the blade is perpendicular to the water flow as it crosses the centreline of the boat which will probably cap speed potential rather. A better bet may be the AD-Scull where the blade is parallel to the flow at the centreline and can function either as propulsion or a rudder.

[457277]

Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

Here comes another way for pedal power.
At first glance, it looks to be very convenient and effective.
Is there anyone here who has more technical data on what is most convenient, and how effective this option is? Could it be developed further?
Note that the oars settles automatically horizontally to reduce air resistance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyMMgOTc4wQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvU2f-t612o

JS

[tink]

Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

I think an issue with a traditional Yuloh in sailing applications is that the blade is perpendicular to the water flow as it crosses the centreline of the boat which will probably cap speed potential rather. A better bet may be the AD-Scull where the blade is parallel to the flow at the centreline and can function either as propulsion or a rudder.

Thanks Clarkey, most of the AD-Scull stuff is in Japanese but some pictures. I think I will make a few models to get my head around the different options.

[Tom Christie]

Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

"Pedal Powered Boats" is the name of the thread I was trying to remember the name of on boatdesign.net
It would be a slog to read through to find the info you want, but I can assure you, it's ALL there.

[Ben Fuller]

Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

I think an issue with a traditional Yuloh in sailing applications is that the blade is perpendicular to the water flow as it crosses the centreline of the boat which will probably cap speed potential rather. A better bet may be the AD-Scull where the blade is parallel to the flow at the centreline and can function either as propulsion or a rudder.

On my good little skiff I haven't used a rudder for years. I use a sculling oar which is shaped to work like a yuloh, a falling leaf stroke. To make it work steering you have to be able to vary the pitch and arc of the stroke. Doesn't seem to affect the speed. I'm not sure how this works on the interesting foot powered one, presumably by varying the pressing force or the length of the stroke. Fishtail sculling such as practice in whaleboats, surfboats ( in western cultures) is more effective steering but less effective in propulsion at least with the oars I have tried.

[rgthom]

Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

To the original question: I bicycle a lot but my human powered boat has oars, not pedals. Rowing uses more and different muscles, it's a way to get in some upper body work. Pedaling might be more efficient by using the same leg muscles as cycling, but I need the change. Neither are good weight bearing exercise, tho...

[StevenBauer]

Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

I built and still use my pedal powered boat but have you guys seen the Frontrower? It's a well built drop in rig that is self feathering and uses leg power as well as arm power. You can take your hands off the oars and keep going under leg power alone.

[rudderless]

Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

I bicycle a lot but my human powered boat has oars, not pedals. Rowing uses more and different muscles, it's a way to get in some upper body work. Pedaling might be more efficient by using the same leg muscles as cycling, but I need the change. Neither are good weight bearing exercise, tho...

The workout pattern can differ by tech details. Just as rowing with a sliding seat vs fixed will add in lower muscles and load up your cardio more. I remember getting so exhausted in a slider scull without seeming to go far... I wonder if there is an inefficient loss from all those speed up and slow downs every couple seconds. Your peak bow wave probably has a nonlinear cost vs the steady medium speed of pedaling.

Pedaling a boat is different from a bike in a couple ways. A lever action stroke can give a wider range of leg extension than the comparatively confining circular pedaling. You can stroke long or short and it feels good. The resistance can be varied with a pedal fin. Besides varying the fin size (bigger is almost always better) you can adjust the pitch of the fin (at least on Hobie legacy drive; new reversable one doesn't yet offer larger fins and overall may be a doubtful tradeoff). One guy wired up both fin drives together when pedaling his tandem boat solo and he found it TOO much a weight bearing experience.

Lastly a pedal boat is normally recumbent vs your weight being the counterforce while cycling upright. So your upper body may exercise exerting a left then right counterforce to your long leg strokes. I normally pedal with a wobbly seat so my arms and especially hands may get tired before my legs do. I can get hand cramps rather than leg cramps after a long run, so am trying to lash down my seat enough to not require a deathgrip (partly for roll control in waves).

But I hate to see boating reduced to just banality of exercise. I remember my finest moment when pedaling a harbor busy with sailboat joyriders and outrigger canoe exercise hounds. An isolated dark cloud popped up and just pulverized us with bullet type downpour and sent the boaters scrambling in retreat. I was dressed like an egyptian mummy for sun protection rather than exercise, so remained perfectly comfy. The still fierce sun slanted under the cloud and lit up the rain splash droplets into a carpet of rainbows as I merrily tooled around a now empty harbor. I wish I took a picture, because the bow was not an arc but like a giant field of flowers (what were the physics?).

[Mark O.]

Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

That forward rowing thing is pretty cool, but I'd still opt for regular oars and turn my head to see where I'm going. I row a single and I can't imagine any petal powered prop boat keeping up with me, so I think oars, with the fulcrum on the gunnels is the best mechanical advantage to move the boat using leg muscles.. Also, I tried using an electric motor on a canoe, and it just scraped bottom too much fishing around oyster beds, spooking good spots. Quieter to use a paddle. But I like anything that floats so pedal away!

[tink]

Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

Seams to be a bit of a fitness interest to this thread. From what I have been reading recently
muscle creates a higher metabolism
with age men loose muscle density - so put on weight
if you just do one excercise, say cycling, the muscles you don't use will diminish and you end up gaining weight
over fifty you should do a variety of different exercises and use as many different muscles as you can

so in conclusion you need more boats,

[rudderless]

Re: Why not more interest in pedal power?

Forward oars: How limited are these in waves, even windchop? You can deal with some in the conventional position because of direct grasp of the handles, but forward facers have indirect grasp. Do the oars skip over waves or grab them? The videos show calm conditions, but eventually you may tire of limiting boating to morning calms or low risk afternoons.

Conventional rowing: Just try turning your neck when you get old and stiff! I have always hated the reverse position, whether on a scull or a train. It is normal to use distant views to pick a place to focus on when getting closer. You can't do that in reverse, but are a passive observer just missing everything.

Wobbly fishtail or yuloh: You can take inefficient wobble out by having 2 tails or yulohs stroking in opposite directions, like counter rotating props on the same hub do. I realize the wobble gives latitude for turning, but look at real fish tails. Forward body of the fish turns in a way to counter the yaw of the tail... you could even emulate this with a trimtab flap at the front (if not by brute force of a skeg).

Pedal prop vs fin: I could be sold on a pedal prop if it could handle higher waves, which I suspect it can (with the prop possibly moved aft). The Hobie forum seems to support that fin technology poops out in over 3 ft whitecaps (higher for trimarans or boat wakes). Your stern skids around the axis of your fins. My closest harbor is normally hemmed in by 3+ foot breaking waves bottlenecking the boat channel, so I would love to smash thru these without skidding in the way of powerboats. My paddle boats can handle waves, but their inefficiency isn't worth it unless the waves are 8+ foot funrides.