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Thread: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

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    Default 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    I’m after thoughts on engines for my H28:

    I did a bit of research on marine diesels for her a few years ago (i.e. 2012) and am looking to update that, but as a bit of a shortcut am first wondering if anyone has done anything more recent work on choosing a marine diesel engine around the 20hp mark and has any recommendations??

    Are there any new engines on the market worth looking at??

    Does anyone have a favourite and why?

    Any bad experiences or negative reports to suggest that any may be better avoided??

    Any advice, thoughts, experiences, quips, tales etc whatsoever???

    When I last looked I was keen on a Yanmar 3YM20, but at $13,700.00 (all of my pricing here is from 2012) that’s the top end and, even with expected price increases over the last five years, the difference in pricing between that and some of the next below it is the cost of six nice bronze port-lights....so am now thinking again and looking to get something under the $10k mark. But I want reliability and something as smooth and quiet running as I can get it, short of going electric.

    Some of the comparable others at the time came in at:

    Volvo Penta D120 (18hp 3 cyl’) - $10,711
    Nanni 21(21hp 3 cyl’)- $9405.00,
    Beta 20 (20hp 3 cyl’)- $7950.00,
    Lombardini LDW702m (20hp 2 cyl')- $9350.00
    Bukh DV24ME (24hp 2 cyl’)) - $16390.00
    Boss L3D14MA (29hp 3 cyl’ Mitsubishi 3)) - $6105.00
    WM Sydney (22hp 3 cyl’ Kubota) - $11,392.00
    Vetus M3.28 (27hp 3 cyl’)) - $9907.00
    Westerbeke 20B (20hp 2 cyl’)) - no price
    Universal M3-20dB (20hp 3 cyl) - no price

    Any thoughts on any of the above?

    Any others to consider??


    When I put my comparison spreadsheet together back in 2012 I listed 28 engines that could possibly suite my H28 (some such as a Yanmar 9.1hp “suitable” only according to some sales people but which are really not suitable for the H28) and included anything that I could find for comparisons, sizes, weight, cc’s, cylinder numbers, max revs, bore, stroke, displacements, compression ratios, cooling, alt amps’ (as supplied per quotes offered) and so on.

    So if this is of use to anyone else here either tell me how to copy an excel spreadsheet or a PDF version of it here, or PM me to email it to you.
    Last edited by Larks; 01-08-2017 at 01:40 AM.
    Larks

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Stay away from Bukh/Beta as the Australian dealer charges too much for parts. This might be the case with some of the others too but I found it much cheaper to buy Bukh parts in NZ than here. Before you buy any engine, check the price of parts that you're likely to need, e.g., exhaust elbow, belts, water pump impeller, hoses etc. I know Volvo parts are also ridiculoususly expensive, Nanni too. I think I'd get a Yanmar if I was buying a new engine.

    Rick

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    By the way, I think 20 hp is too big for an H28. I'd go for a 15 max - cheaper, lighter. I only have a 24 in Masina and that's plenty.

    Rick

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Too big? Ha! We are all getting older. The mill only has to save the boat once.

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    By the way, I think 20 hp is too big for an H28. I'd go for a 15 max - cheaper, lighter. I only have a 24 in Masina and that's plenty.

    Rick
    I hear what you’re saying Rick but disagree in this case: I did the calc’s and the 14’s available don’t cut it - the Beta 16 is the next up and, as you say, expensive on parts (and I wasn’t impressed with them anyway). It was a Volvo 18hp that came out of her so I’m looking for similar to go back in, but also looking for a 3 cyl rather than two - hence the wee bump to 20hp. My expectation when I did the calc’s was that I’d have her parked up the Coomera river so the last thing I want to do is struggle against tide when I can match a 20 and prop’ pretty well to suit the expected conditions.

    Price wise, those around the 14/16hp that I did price up at the time weren’t so much cheaper than the 20 that I would be swayed by price. i.e. Nanni 14hp $8745 (2 cyl) and the 21hp (3 cyl) $9405. I didn’t record the price of the Yammer 2YM15 (14hp) but I knew the dealer pretty well at the time (through Stalla Marine when I was there) and we did the calls together and I recall it not being worth dropping the hp to 14hp for what cost saving there would be.


    Interestingly I’ve had dealers try and tell me I needed over 25hp while another suggested the 9.1 that I mentioned above would suffice - I suggested he must mean running with the tide and the sails up.
    Larks

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Stay away from Bukh/Beta as the Australian dealer charges too much for parts. This might be the case with some of the others too but I found it much cheaper to buy Bukh parts in NZ than here. Before you buy any engine, check the price of parts that you're likely to need, e.g., exhaust elbow, belts, water pump impeller, hoses etc. I know Volvo parts are also ridiculoususly expensive, Nanni too. I think I'd get a Yanmar if I was buying a new engine.

    Rick
    Good advice about the parts pricing though, I knew as much about Volvo and Beta but wasn’t quite so aware that Nanni were the same. Availability of parts is the other issue.
    Larks

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    I still have a Bukh DV20 in the shed even though I've tried to give it away. It needs a gearbox ...does anyone know where I'd find one ?
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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Larks, 28 motors in to a spreadsheet? You are way over thinking it, virtually any modern small diesel will be perfectly fine. A fair few of them are rebadged industrial motors from the same manufacturer anyway. HP wise it starts from the prop backwards, but I'd be saying that anything from 14hp would be perfectly fine. Old bukh 10's were the standard here but they are very heavy and a bit underpowered if you want to make headway into wind and tide. I'd be looking at a 20hp Yanmar, Beta, Nanni, Volvo or Lombardini. Pick the cheapest one with the best service facility and you cannot go wrong. Seriously its really a toss of the dice as they are all very good.
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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul G. View Post
    Larks, 28 motors in to a spreadsheet? You are way over thinking it, virtually any modern small diesel will be perfectly fine. A fair few of them are rebadged industrial motors from the same manufacturer anyway. HP wise it starts from the prop backwards, but I'd be saying that anything from 14hp would be perfectly fine. Old bukh 10's were the standard here but they are very heavy and a bit underpowered if you want to make headway into wind and tide. I'd be looking at a 20hp Yanmar, Beta, Nanni, Volvo or Lombardini. Pick the cheapest one with the best service facility and you cannot go wrong. Seriously its really a toss of the dice as they are all very good.
    Thanks for the comments Paul.

    Not so much overthinking, it was more to do with comparing prices weight and size at the time and having a lousy memory......
    Larks

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    I guess if price and weight are similar then you may as well go with a bigger motor. Our Folkboat has a 10 and that's plenty. Masina is 38' and weighs around 7t. The Bukh 24 is pretty old - about 30 years I think! Seems to be a pretty good motor.

    Rick

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    I guess if price and weight are similar then you may as well go with a bigger motor. Our Folkboat has a 10 and that's plenty. Masina is 38' and weighs around 7t. The Bukh 24 is pretty old - about 30 years I think! Seems to be a pretty good motor.

    Rick
    Having said what I did above, I meant to add that I’d earlier emailed Vetus-Maxwell for a price on their new M2.18 engine, which is 16hp and which I don’t recall being available when I’d looked at Vetus before as the only one they priced for me was the M3.28 which was too big.
    Larks

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Too small for you but I like this Greg, low reving and hand startable .http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bukh-DV-1...wAAOSw2zlXhh16
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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Too small for you but I like this Greg, low reving and hand startable .http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bukh-DV-1...wAAOSw2zlXhh16
    I could always convert to twin props and run two of them....
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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Twin props off one engine would be fun, doable too I reckon. Nice for a marina .
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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Rob was very happy with the motor he put in his boat. Was that a Lombardini? I like Yanmars myself.

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Robs was a Lombardini , 13 hp or thereabouts, 2 ton boat.

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Rob was very happy with the motor he put in his boat. Was that a Lombardini? I like Yanmars myself.
    Yes, Rob’s was a Lombardini. I think it may have been JB who first put me on to looking at the Lombardini engine when I started looking way back then, I wonder if he knows any more since then....???
    Larks

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Although the Lombardic LDW702m is a 2 cylinder it is the lightest of all the ones that I compared at 99kg.
    Larks

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/i...-package/88908

    The Uk pound is less than $1.50 at the moment.

    UK VAT should cover the freight, you would be up for another 10% at this end.

    Are you still in the marine business? Any chance it could be a business sample or something like that?

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Fitzgerald View Post
    http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/i...-package/88908

    The Uk pound is less than $1.50 at the moment.

    UK VAT should cover the freight, you would be up for another 10% at this end.

    Are you still in the marine business? Any chance it could be a business sample or something like that?
    Looks interesting Paul, thank you , though I note that the price they are showing is based on exchange of an old engine package.

    However I’d not previously looked OS so you've opened up a new avenue that looks worth investigating. I am still in the marine industry and operating under my own marine business so that also opens up other options for doing deals.
    Larks

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Yes, Rob’s was a Lombardini. I think it may have been JB who first put me on to looking at the Lombardini engine when I started looking way back then, I wonder if he knows any more since then....???
    Ian McColgin just bought two of them last year, give him a shout he's a had a bit of time with them now. . .
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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    I went with twin Lombardinis for Meg. But key to my decision was that a major East Coast distributor had the engine as the main unit in their popular gensets and thus the parts chain was and will remain about as reliable as can be predicted.

    I once had a car (a Sabra) where the parts supply train was interrupted by the '67 Arab-Israeli War and US marketing never really got off the ground, much less recovered. Learning to machine new kingpins and such was rewarding in its way but nothing I want to repeat if I breakdown on the ICW.

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Nanni and Beta both use Kubota short engines, but their own ancillaries. Very well regarded.

    No no experience of them myself, but Volvos are called 'The green death' by many.

    Westerbeke can can be a bit agricultural, vibey, noisy, but are Perkins blocks, and are considered long life work horses. Perkins might be worth a look.

    I have several people who swear by Ford, being reliable and cheap, particularly the 4D, but that's bigger than what you require. May also be worthy of investigation.

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    The Beta is a Kubota. For parts that aren't specifically "marine" a tractor dealer is much cheaper.
    My Westerbeke needed glowplugs. The "marine" ones were $40US per plug. Tractor dealer had them for $11. Same part number on the plug.
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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Recently I saw an H-28 fitted with a new motor by a professional installer who recommended a Beta 20hp. From my experience and for the relatively little extra cost and weight its well worth it. You will be very surprised at how much motoring you do on a cruise.
    whatever rocks your boat

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    The only ones who produce their own engines are Bukh and Lombardini. Beta, Nanni, and some others are Kubota. Small Volvos are Perkins from Japan or China. Vetus is Mitsubitshi. Westerbeke and Universal could be Kubota, Perkins or Mitsubishi (depending on model and year, for example the Westerbeke 20B is a Mitsubishi L2E same as the Vetus 2.05 and the Sole 17).

    As the others said buy the spare parts at the tractor or lawnmower or industrial store. Smaller Yanmars are also in industrial equipment. Lombardinis core business is industrial engines not marine ones. The only real dedicated marine engine is the Bukh 24 ME.

    One idea would be to marinize yourself. Buy the heat exchanger and wet exhaust from one firm and the motor from an industrial supplier.

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    I went with twin Lombardinis for Meg. But key to my decision was that a major East Coast distributor had the engine as the main unit in their popular gensets and thus the parts chain was and will remain about as reliable as can be predicted.

    I once had a car (a Sabra) where the parts supply train was interrupted by the '67 Arab-Israeli War and US marketing never really got off the ground, much less recovered. Learning to machine new kingpins and such was rewarding in its way but nothing I want to repeat if I breakdown on the ICW.
    Thanks Ian, that’s good to know. Are you happy with them so far? Anything that bothers you about them or the process of fitting them?
    Larks

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Nanni and Beta both use Kubota short engines, but their own ancillaries. Very well regarded.

    No no experience of them myself, but Volvos are called 'The green death' by many.

    Westerbeke can can be a bit agricultural, vibey, noisy, but are Perkins blocks, and are considered long life work horses. Perkins might be worth a look.

    I have several people who swear by Ford, being reliable and cheap, particularly the 4D, but that's bigger than what you require. May also be worthy of investigation.
    Thanks lup’, good info and much appreciated
    Larks

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    The Beta is a Kubota. For parts that aren't specifically "marine" a tractor dealer is much cheaper.
    My Westerbeke needed glowplugs. The "marine" ones were $40US per plug. Tractor dealer had them for $11. Same part number on the plug.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul G. View Post
    Recently I saw an H-28 fitted with a new motor by a professional installer who recommended a Beta 20hp. From my experience and for the relatively little extra cost and weight its well worth it. You will be very surprised at how much motoring you do on a cruise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    The only ones who produce their own engines are Bukh and Lombardini. Beta, Nanni, and some others are Kubota. Small Volvos are Perkins from Japan or China. Vetus is Mitsubitshi. Westerbeke and Universal could be Kubota, Perkins or Mitsubishi (depending on model and year, for example the Westerbeke 20B is a Mitsubishi L2E same as the Vetus 2.05 and the Sole 17).

    As the others said buy the spare parts at the tractor or lawnmower or industrial store. Smaller Yanmars are also in industrial equipment. Lombardinis core business is industrial engines not marine ones. The only real dedicated marine engine is the Bukh 24 ME.

    One idea would be to marinize yourself. Buy the heat exchanger and wet exhaust from one firm and the motor from an industrial supplier.

    Thanks guys, really good info and advise and very much appreciated. I’m a bit of a Kubota fan but I note that a few are using the Mitsubishi’s now - what sort of a reputation do they have?
    Larks

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Nanni and Beta both use Kubota short engines, but their own ancillaries. Very well regarded.

    No no experience of them myself, but Volvos are called 'The green death' by many.

    Westerbeke can can be a bit agricultural, vibey, noisy, but are Perkins blocks, and are considered long life work horses. Perkins might be worth a look.

    I have several people who swear by Ford, being reliable and cheap, particularly the 4D, but that's bigger than what you require. May also be worthy of investigation.
    Looks like both Ford and Perkins offerings would be too big in their marine diesel range
    Larks

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Since we launched I've been at the full winter's work in commissioning so the engines only have an hour of actual use.

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    I can only really say I went through the process some years ago and chose the lombardini. Great little motor, light, easy to shift around and install , lift etc. No problems except the exhaust elbow/ mixer after about 7 years needed replacing.
    Most of the classics here seem to choose them, possibly I had some influence there. My son looks after a boat with one , One of my closest friends just fitted a 40. I just don't see why you'd put something in that is significantly heavier and physically bigger , there's always something else that you could use the weight differential for for , bigger tanks etc.

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    I can only really say I went through the process some years ago and chose the lombardini. Great little motor, light, easy to shift around and install , lift etc. No problems except the exhaust elbow/ mixer after about 7 years needed replacing.
    Most of the classics here seem to choose them, possibly I had some influence there. My son looks after a boat with one , One of my closest friends just fitted a 40. I just don't see why you'd put something in that is significantly heavier and physically bigger , there's always something else that you could use the weight differential for for , bigger tanks etc.
    Thanks JB, I’m waiting to hear back from the rep’ to see how the price has changed since I last looked. at 99kg and supplied with a 120A alternator the 20hp LDW702A looks interesting.
    Larks

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  34. #34
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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Craftsman diesel is a newish supplier of Mitsubishi based blocks, assembled with their own marine parts in Holland, prices are below Vetus (same engine block) and the spares are cheaper than vetus on my last check. There was a Oz supplier with a video on Utube. The CM16 twin looks about right.
    I had a Bukh 10 single in my 28ft Ferro Hartley, (7 tons) and it was fine. Did throw a large prop, but had no prblem keeping way on going through the straights of Gib with a Levater blowing and short steep seas, nor pushing out of a estuary/river mouth with a hard tide against us.
    A 20 triple might run a bit smoother than a smaller twin, but i find the price increase percentage will be above the performance percentage in comparison.
    Reading through "Yacht Cruising" by Claud Worth, his calculations for hp on a H28 would suggest an engine of 3.25hp.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    There's a 3 cyclinder heat exchanger cooled 3JH25 Yanmar with gearbox at 200hrs here at Ł2595.



    http://www.marineenterprisesltd.co.uk/

    Might be good value with the pound devaluation. Say they ship worldwide...

    SKB....they've got some 20 & 30hp ex lifeboat Sabb's in, any experience with the bigger ones?

    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 01-09-2017 at 06:29 AM.

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    There's a 3 cyclinder heat exchanger cooled 3JH25 Yanmar with gearbox at 200hrs here at Ł2595.



    http://www.marineenterprisesltd.co.uk/

    Might be good value with the pound devaluation. Say they ship worldwide...

    SKB....they've got some 20 & 30hp ex lifeboat Sabb's in, any experience with the bigger ones?

    That’s a great site Ed, thanks for the link. The Yanmar looks a bit heavy but it’s a great price and I’ll spend some time tomorrow going through the site itself, it looks well worth an explore
    Larks

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  37. #37
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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Craftsman diesel is a newish supplier of Mitsubishi based blocks, assembled with their own marine parts in Holland, prices are below Vetus (same engine block) and the spares are cheaper than vetus on my last check. There was a Oz supplier with a video on Utube. The CM16 twin looks about right.
    I had a Bukh 10 single in my 28ft Ferro Hartley, (7 tons) and it was fine. Did throw a large prop, but had no prblem keeping way on going through the straights of Gib with a Levater blowing and short steep seas, nor pushing out of a estuary/river mouth with a hard tide against us.
    A 20 triple might run a bit smoother than a smaller twin, but i find the price increase percentage will be above the performance percentage in comparison.
    Reading through "Yacht Cruising" by Claud Worth, his calculations for hp on a H28 would suggest an engine of 3.25hp.
    That’s a terrific lead, thank you. I see that Craftsman are about an hour up the road from my home in Queensland, I’ll give them a call/email and see what their pricing is like.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
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  38. #38
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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    The pictured Saab is a 2jhr and weighs 370kg without gearbox. Has 1880cmc for 30HP at 1900rpm. With the pictured Hurth gearbox it will need a 20"x16"RH propeller. It also does not have a heat exchanger since the lifeboat engines were fitted with keel coolers.

    Larks before deciding to buy check your access space for mantainance. The Lombardini has a side mounted oil filter and the seawater pump is in the back (cam driven). The oil change pump is also in the back. They can all be relocated of course but it costs extra. There are also two instrument panel options beside the standard digital one. Here a link with good photos and a price: http://mobile.nauticshop24.de/item/3130343631

    P.S. The Craftsman Mitsubishi is a indirect injection type, the Lombardini is direct injection. Weight with transmission is similar (98 and 99kg). Here the price is different 1000 euros more for the Craftsman, but that means nothing for you.
    Last edited by Rumars; 01-09-2017 at 11:28 AM.

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Ed, never owned a sabb, but been aboard several boats fitted with them, generally well liked by owners. Heavy by modern standards, but will run for days on end,or until oil service needed. Vetus told me i could run the new series non stop for 250 hours between oil changes.
    There is a Sabb 22 for sale locally for just over a grand, complete with shaft and prop, but i would need to build a hefty boat to fit it in!
    The 30hp is hand crankable if you have a sound back, not as easy to start as a Lister JP3, but doable. Sabb say the 30 is suitable as an auxillary in boats up to 55ft, can throw a good size prop. Ian

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    If you look on the marine enterprise site, they also supply new Thornycroft brand, based on Mitsubishi also. Cheaper than the Craftsman, but ancillary spares might not be as good as a dealer one hour up the road!

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    whatever rocks your boat

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    The pictured Saab is a 2jhr and weighs 370kg without gearbox. Has 1880cmc for 30HP at 1900rpm. With the pictured Hurth gearbox it will need a 20"x16"RH propeller. It also does not have a heat exchanger since the lifeboat engines were fitted with keel coolers.

    Larks before deciding to buy check your access space for mantainance. The Lombardini has a side mounted oil filter and the seawater pump is in the back (cam driven). The oil change pump is also in the back. They can all be relocated of course but it costs extra. There are also two instrument panel options beside the standard digital one. Here a link with good photos and a price: http://mobile.nauticshop24.de/item/3130343631

    P.S. The Craftsman Mitsubishi is a indirect injection type, the Lombardini is direct injection. Weight with transmission is similar (98 and 99kg). Here the price is different 1000 euros more for the Craftsman, but that means nothing for you.
    Thanks Rumars, I hadn’t picked up on the fuel injection, so much appreciated. I’m probably most interested in the Lombardini at the moment, pending updated pricing which I’m waiting on. Access won’t be a problem as I’m rebuilding the boat from bare hull up http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ild&highlight= .

    I’ve been working away from home for a few years now so she’s sat idle for too long but I plan to get back into her in a couple of months when my current contract finishes up. Hence I need to decide on the motor and get it on the way so that I can include any access issues in the fit out plan accordingly.
    Larks

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?


    I’ll be sticking with new for this fit out Paul, but that web site has a few other things of interest for other “potential” projects.
    Larks

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  44. #44
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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    If you look on the marine enterprise site, they also supply new Thornycroft brand, based on Mitsubishi also. Cheaper than the Craftsman, but ancillary spares might not be as good as a dealer one hour up the road!
    agreed
    Larks

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  45. #45
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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Nice boat Larks. I would say that right now the Lombardini is the most modern of the commonly installed inboards. The next step would be a Mercedes Smart motor. 40HP in a 121kg package (including transmission) with a titanium heat exchanger. Pricetag is 10196,40 Euros (sans VAT for export 8790 euros).
    The Lombardini is a direct injected engine with unit injectors. The timing belt is good for 5000 hours. The water injected exhaust collector is stainless steel some say it should be checked after 7 years. Alternator is a standard one from a Fiat.
    The indirect injection of the Mitsubishi would give you a quieter and smoother running engine for a increase in fuel consumption. It uses a standard Bosh fuel pump. Craftsman says they use a bronze exhaust collector so no problems there. Their raw water pump is belt driven.
    Pluses and minuses as usual. If the Mitsubishi is cheaper I see no problem in using one.

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    Nice boat Larks. I would say that right now the Lombardini is the most modern of the commonly installed inboards. The next step would be a Mercedes Smart motor. 40HP in a 121kg package (including transmission) with a titanium heat exchanger. Pricetag is 10196,40 Euros (sans VAT for export 8790 euros).
    The Lombardini is a direct injected engine with unit injectors. The timing belt is good for 5000 hours. The water injected exhaust collector is stainless steel some say it should be checked after 7 years. Alternator is a standard one from a Fiat.
    The indirect injection of the Mitsubishi would give you a quieter and smoother running engine for a increase in fuel consumption. It uses a standard Bosh fuel pump. Craftsman says they use a bronze exhaust collector so no problems there. Their raw water pump is belt driven.
    Pluses and minuses as usual. If the Mitsubishi is cheaper I see no problem in using one.

    Thanks Rumars, I really appreciate your obviously well founded advice on this. The Lombardini seems to have one of the bigger alternators supplied as standard here in Oz at 120A, compared to any of the others that I’m looking at.

    Very interestingly and perhaps propitiously, when I’ve just gone to email the Craftsman distributor in Brisbane it turns out to be the engineering company who's Gold Coast yard I used to manage. So I rang my old boss (the owner) for a chat and it turns out he is about to also take on the Kohler distributorship, which means he’ll also be taking on Lombardini but which (if I understood him correctly) will now be sold under the Kohler brand in Oz......very handy!!!
    Larks

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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    You are welcome Larks. I am not trying to steer you one way or another. Shop around, pricing may differ, someone may have a deal on something. If you get a good deal on a Mitsubishi buy it. Fuel consumption will be around 10-20% more, but for this size of engine that is negligible, under 0,5l/hour. And it will probably be quieter and smoother running.

    The 120A alternator is a bonus only if you got the batteries to match. Normally smaller vessels do not, so on smaller engines you find smaller alternators. For example to fully use the 120A alternator you would need at least 300Ah AGM's, or 340Ah gel, or 480Ah flooded lead acid batteries. Anything more than that just takes longer to charge, anything less and you are not using the full 120A because the batteries can not accept them. A 120A at full power will take some 4HP from the engine so that is another reason you don't see big alternators on small engines.

  48. #48
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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    You are welcome Larks. I am not trying to steer you one way or another. Shop around, pricing may differ, someone may have a deal on something. If you get a good deal on a Mitsubishi buy it. Fuel consumption will be around 10-20% more, but for this size of engine that is negligible, under 0,5l/hour. And it will probably be quieter and smoother running.

    The 120A alternator is a bonus only if you got the batteries to match. Normally smaller vessels do not, so on smaller engines you find smaller alternators. For example to fully use the 120A alternator you would need at least 300Ah AGM's, or 340Ah gel, or 480Ah flooded lead acid batteries. Anything more than that just takes longer to charge, anything less and you are not using the full 120A because the batteries can not accept them. A 120A at full power will take some 4HP from the engine so that is another reason you don't see big alternators on small engines.
    You are worth your weight in gold Rumars - I’m learning something new and valuable from every one of your posts (anything electrical is generally considered witchcraft to me)!!!

    It will ultimately boil down to price I feel now. I’m getting the picture that the Nanni, Vetus, Lombardini and Craftsman are falling into the ones to choose from and of those I have a direct connection to the Lombardini (Kohler) and Craftsman supplier, so I expect (hope) he will look after me.

    I’ve just received a reply from the Vetus supplier here and the price on the 2cylinder 16hp M218 is looking reasonably attractive as the first updated price (i.e. 2017 instead of 2012) that I have received back. It’s come in at $8156.00 including GST standard retail (when I decide which way to go I’ll go back looking for a trade price and will also be able to claim the 10% GST - Goods and Services Tax - back). Here’s what it includes:

    Standard package price for the M2.18 is currently $8 156.00, Including GST ex Capalaba.
    Standard package consists of complete engine with –
    Mechanical fuel injection system
    Heat exchange cooling system with gear driven seawater pump
    Coolant cooled exhaust manifold
    Seawater injection exhaust outlet elbow (40mm outlet, bronze)
    12 volt starter motor
    75 amp alternator
    Engine wiring harness
    Instrument extension harness (2 metre)
    MP10 instrument panel with key start and fault alarms including high wet exhaust temperature. (As pictured in the attached brochure)
    Set of 4 anti vibration engine mounts
    Fitted ZF12 mechanical transmission @ 2.14:1 reduction (2.63:1 optional)
    Sump emptying pump
    Remote control (Morse) cable engine end mount brackets and connections
    First fill of engine oil and coolant
    Operators handbook

    Optional Extras:
    Upgrading of the MP10 instrument panel to the MP22, which adds tacho/hourmeter and voltmeter, is an additional $556.00 Inc GST.
    Upgrading of the MP10 instrument panel to the MP34, which adds tacho/hourmeter, voltmeter oil pressure and temperature gauges, is an additional $660.00 Inc GST.
    Substitute 4 metre instrument extension cable for 2 metre is an additional $15.00 inc GST
    Substitute 6 metre instrument extension cable for 2 metre is an additional $35.00 inc GST
    Alternate transmission and saildrive options. POA.
    Second alternator mounted on engine and driven from auxiliary front crankshaft pulley. POA.
    Vetus of course also manufacture a complete range of installation components such as gear / throttle controls, exhaust systems, fuel systems, seawater systems etc. To more accurately quote these items I would need to further discuss your proposed application with you.
    Larks

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  49. #49
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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    I was quite impressed with the spec for the Vetus M18 and the feedback i was given from an agent in the UK, however, he said he could not sell me an engine package, as it would have to come from the Swedish dealer which he arranged to contact me to answer my queries. As usual, there was a price increase for the basic engine, but i never got back a quote for all the extra installation equipment i wanted a quote for, despite 3 emails. That lead me to a local supplier of Craftsman, who actually answers questions and emails. I did write to Vetus head office with regards to customer service, and surprise surprise, no answer.
    From my limited electro-mechanical knowledge, that big alternator on the Lombardini is only going to be causing a bigger fuel use when its demand is at its peak, which is an unlikely battery bank size unless you going offshore with a lot of toys, suffice to say at a 70amp load of a smaller alternator, is no more fuel power sapping than the larger at the same amp charging rate, and that rate is usually down to how big and discharged your batteries are. I found a smart charge controller a handy thing if you only motor on occasions and for faster battery topping off, as it will allow the smaller alternator to keep putting in a high rate of amps rather than backing off as the battery recharges. Might be something to think about down the line.

  50. #50
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    Default Re: 20hp(ish) marine diesels - anyone recent advances/suggestions?

    Thanks Skars', the alternator issue is pretty much what Rumars advised as well but which I wasn't really aware of (actually I sort of realise now that I was but like most things electrical it wasn't something that I'd remembered until prompted) so I'm really quite interested in this advice.

    Its interesting what you say about Vetus as I had heard similar elsewhere overseas, but the guys here in Oz have always been quite proactive and helpful. I've dealt with them before through work and can't fault their service, so theirs was one of the first engines that I looked at back in 2012.

    I must say that while researching engines again, the Nanni web site is by far the most informative, useable and helpful.
    Larks

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