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Thread: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    The newly rebuild bottom rudder fitting fitted and rudder ready to continue with the painting



    The paint line will have to be lowered to be inline with new correct waterline position







    Looking better and ready for the next stage of painting the yacht









    Possible new premise for J-Star Boat Services





  2. #37
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Simon, That boat is certainly lucky to have you as her friend! For that matter, her owner must really appreciate what you are doing as well!
    Jay

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Hi Jay,
    The work on the yacht as been a challenge at times, however, the end result will be worth it when she as a fresh coat of paint all over and she is sailing again on the high seas off the East of England in the spring this year.

    Regards
    Simon J-Star

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    A Finesse 24 in need of a total restoration from the keel up



    First job was to harden up a few loose nails in a few ribs in the aft end of the yacht around the engine bed area and the surrounding area







    A split plank that needs replacing







    The old ribs with the sister ribs nailed in beside the old ribs by another boat builder before I got on to the job







    A total cockpit rebuild from making new floor bearers







    To cockpit bulkheads and seats and floor boards





  5. #40
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    A new project for J-Star Simon

    The deck beams are sound as is the carlins and the gunwales


    The deck have quite a curve on them and quite a camber so it should be quite a challenge



    Just got to do a good bit of vacuuming up to get rid of months of dust and other mess



    Good bit of cleaning up to be done before the plywood deck is re-laid.






    The other yacht we are working on as its first half of the new plank fitted and the area where the chain plate filled and faired as been rubbed down and re-painted back up to the same number of coats of marine primer as the surrounding area





    Now the yacht as been primed above the waterline the bottom half can get done and and the repairs to the bottom can continue.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    The sistering is very similar to my work at the moment. Why had so many ribs had fractured on the Finesse do you think? I am certain my trouble has been down to the poorly fitted 'retro' bilge keels. I seem to recall the Finesse had 'runners' rather than bilge keels?

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Hi Tillergirl,
    One of the main reasons for this Finesse problems is that she was a yacht on the half tide mooring on hard ground and the yacht had a lot of gear and equipment onboard. Although she was designed and build to take
    this sort of treatment over a number of years it will take its toll on even the best build yachts. The sistering up of ribs was done before I started on the project. It is a method of repairing I try to avoid and would rather replace the old rib with a new rib and find out why it broke in the first place and sort out the problem first and put the new rib in when the problem is sorted not just put a sistering rib in.

    If a yacht was designed to have bilge keel then the yacht is beefed up around the area to take the stress, This is possible the reason you have had the problems you have had as it was never designed to have bilge keel and the compounded stress as caused the problems.

    Yes the Finesse does have bilge runners and they are a good idea and practice and works like for a number of yachts, however, anything bigger would be problematic at best.

    Regards
    Simon J-Star

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Very similar. Tiller Girl was built at Leigh-on-Sea like a Finesse and I suspect, as the original owner lived up the road, had Tiller Girl on a half mooring which was hard. The original bilge keels (of which I known nothing) I think may have been runners rather than 'full' bilge keels. The stringers in way of the original bilge keel position - which was 2m long - were tripled up; 3 x 1" x 7" stringers. There was no midship bracing. The original bilge keels had been removed by 1985 and now lived round the north-west. Then in 1988 steel bilge keels were added. Shorter than the originals but I think were deeper as they were as deep as the central keel. The midship leverage was worrying. And now I have removed the bilge keels I known that there were badly fitted. Two ribs had been cut through by bolts fixing the replaced bilge keels. One other rib had been 'clipped' by another bolt and two had clipped the edge of two plank seams.

    All can and is being sorted but the bilge keels will not go back. I have, though, sistered six ribs. I appreciate the comment but I was unhappy to go that far.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by jstarboats View Post

    Yes the Finesse does have bilge runners and they are a good idea and practice and works like for a number of yachts, however, anything bigger would be problematic at best.

    Regards
    Simon J-Star
    Simon,
    Around our neck of the woods bilge runners (sand clogs) are oak plank, double the thickness of the skin put in as a length of a strake when planking up. They are then faired off at each end.
    I would be surprised if a new built boat would have one planted on top of the hull plank, especially as it woulf create a rot pocket between the two layers and will riddle the frames with twice as many fasteners as needed.
    What is your experience of boats built from new with a sand clog?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  10. #45
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Hi Nick,
    The bilge runners on the Finesse are about 2 1/2 inch thick and about 6 inches deep from the hull to the bottom of the widest part and the follow the shape of the bottom. They are through fixed through the land area of the planking so there is a good deal of wood for the bilge runners to spread the loading on the area, Boats and yachts that I have work on over the past 40 years have faired differently depending on the conditions they have had to work under. Most of the time they do their job well. the only draw back being they have to be replace over the years as they get worn out or broken. Either way they have always work well if they have been fitted correctly and with correct strengthen on the inside of the boat to take the loading put upon them during their working lives and the vessel hull is build strong enough for the working conditions in which it is used.

    Simon J-Star

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    I apologise to trespassing from the thread about the removal of the bilge keels to here but Simon, your comments make me think 'Tiller Girl's bilge keels were bilge runners not keels like the Finesse - the Leigh-on-Sea style. I am certain now that the retro fitting of the bilge keels were 'not well designed nor fitted'. So, ok, the bilge keels are bansihed.

    But the difficulty is that with the bilge runners and the bilge keels, there have been 16 holes drilled though the length of the same plank port and starboard. The holes are now all dowelled and glued; the seams next to be addressed but that is just about puttying. I have two new iroko planks to go over those veteran planks to provide insurance. I would prefer the lines of her hull to be unblemished or it is better to have the insurance of the new planks as a sort of bilge runner/sand clog.

    I had thought there was some sense to renew the veteran planks but that would require the stringers removing which would require some significant difficulties at the bulkheads. Holes and dowelled apart the veteran planks are very sound. Nick's comment about the 'plank over rot issue' is another worry - the original bilge runners were not through ribs so were well positioned; the retro bilge keels were the vandals.

    Decisions, decisions.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Hi Tillergirl,

    Now that you have sorted out the old planks and you sistered up the ribs, there is know reason not to put bilge runners back on. As for the rot problem, this will only be a problem if the bilge runner sand clog is not sealed correctly, i.e. lots of primer on the back surface and any where that can not painted once they are fitted in position and large amounts of sealant in between the bearing surfaces. and a good amount of fixings to make sure they stay in position.

    If you send me photos of the job it would be helpful to see what you are doing in refitting these bilge runners.

    Regards

    Simon J-Star

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Simon, thanks. I will supply images but I regret my broadband isn't working at all at the moment. It is reported but they have said it will be 72hrs and it is only 24hrs at the moment. It takes about 4 minutes to open up the website and another 4 minutes to open the thread at the moment - if it opens.

    I better use clear terms. When I started this winter I have retro bilge keels. They were steel and the upper flange sandwiched an external timber 'runner' which ran to 2m to extend where the original bilge keels had been fitted. I think the 'runner' has done two roles: a backing timber for the retro bilge keels and insurance over where the pretty suspect doweling would have been otherwise exposed. The timber 'runner' was each screwed with 1.5" x 10s and one 2" x 12. The #12 went right through the plank! Ugh. I am now thinking that the original bilge keels were more likely bilge runners (or Nick's sand clogs). I don't want or need (I think) bilge runners. The issue does the orignal planking required the insurance of a timber runner (disfiguring the lines) over the now repaired planking. I hope I have been clear - and I will add images once the broadband comes back to normal.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Hi Tillergirl,

    Unless you replace the planking , the only way to insure there is not chance of the original planking giving way is to cover them with a secondary plank on the outside, only until you can get round to replacing the original plank in the future.

    Regards
    Simon J-Star

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by jstarboats View Post
    Hi Nick,
    The bilge runners on the Finesse are about 2 1/2 inch thick and about 6 inches deep from the hull to the bottom of the widest part and the follow the shape of the bottom. They are through fixed through the land area of the planking so there is a good deal of wood for the bilge runners to spread the loading on the area, Boats and yachts that I have work on over the past 40 years have faired differently depending on the conditions they have had to work under. Most of the time they do their job well. the only draw back being they have to be replace over the years as they get worn out or broken. Either way they have always work well if they have been fitted correctly and with correct strengthen on the inside of the boat to take the loading put upon them during their working lives and the vessel hull is build strong enough for the working conditions in which it is used.

    Simon J-Star
    OK, I think that you are talking about these. Yes?


    I was discussing these
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  16. #51
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Hi Nick,

    That's Correct the ones on Tillergirl's yacht were plate bilge keels which were bolted through the bottom on the turn of the bilge and were never to designed for and the inside of the boat was never beefed up to take the bilge keels in the first place.

    Regards
    Simon J-Star

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by jstarboats View Post
    Hi Nick,

    That's Correct the ones on Tillergirl's yacht were plate bilge keels which were bolted through the bottom on the turn of the bilge and were never to designed for and the inside of the boat was never beefed up to take the bilge keels in the first place.

    Regards
    Simon J-Star
    Don't like them for a sailing hull. Would only consider them if forced to dry out on muscle beds or raggedy rocks. They will be fitted to the motor hulls to stop them leaning over too much and to damp out roll.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  18. #53
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Hi Nick,

    I agree with you that they do not look right on a yacht's hull, however in drying out areas such as the east coast they are a help on the turn of the bilge where the yacht gets the most pounding when it grounds at its mooring or when it goes aground at any of time. As long as the hull was designed and made to have them. I can not see any problem with them being there.

    Regards
    Simon J-Star

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by jstarboats View Post
    Hi Nick,

    I agree with you that they do not look right on a yacht's hull, however in drying out areas such as the east coast they are a help on the turn of the bilge where the yacht gets the most pounding when it grounds at its mooring or when it goes aground at any of time. As long as the hull was designed and made to have them. I can not see any problem with them being there.

    Regards
    Simon J-Star
    Fairy Nuff. horses for courses.

    I just think that our Lancashire coast solution is more elegant
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  20. #55
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Hi Nick,

    Yes agree with your viewpoint, every area as its own way of tackle the problem of bilge runners and bilge keels, so what is good for one area will not always be good in another. Having travel round the UK over the past 40 years during my boat building carrier I have come across a lot of difference ways of over coming the problem. all of which fit the area where they are used. So as you put it horses for courses.

    Regards
    Simon J-Star

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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Finally got in - pesky broadband!

    I have been trying to convince myself I don't need the 'extra' plank as insurance but your comment, Simon, banishes my nonsense. So Nick, nice though to banish it I fear it makes sense to banish elegance.

    Now to try to feather it nicely so as nicely as possible.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Hi,
    I do think in the short term putting the extra plank is the way to go. Just have to save the pennies to get the plank re-placed at a later date. Feathering out the ends will make it look better and draw your eye to the reason it is there in the first place and at the end of the day it is doing a useful job of protecting that area of the bilge.

    Regards
    Simon J-Star

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    And the more I think about replacing that plank, the more I dread. How on earth would it be possible to remove the stringers? It would make a complete strip down of the vessel.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    The cabin bulkhead is in the worse condition and will need the most work on


    The aft bulkhead is a lot smaller and should not be as larger job as the front, however, smaller areas can cause their problems



    One of the first jobs is to remove all the equipment that is the way to gain access to the bulkheads and to the cockpit coamings that have to be removed to be able to remove the old rotten wood.



    One side is already clear of obstructions



    While the other side as yet to be started on

    Side on view



    A view looking forward a mess of wiring to be removed and labelled up


  25. #60
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Custom made quadrant to the owner's and boat builder's design





    First of the long length's of quadrant starting to be screwed down dry fit ready to be fitted with sealant once they are all fitted in position.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs



    The Enterprise restoration now underway again.







    As is the quadrants on the !960's Wooden ketch










    and the work on the 1930's wooden sloop.








    Work coming along steady on 1930's Yacht

    Now primed up above and below the water line and now ready for the major painting job




  27. #62
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    The second long length of quadrant being fitted on the 1960's ketch



    One length carefully screwed and sealed down now ready to have the screw holes plugged with hardwood plugs







    Front part of the plank ready to be fitted







    The front part of the top plank starting to be fitted







    Almost there just the joint to be cut and glued together, then it will be ready to caulk and putty up the seam and paint the top plank





  28. #63
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs



    After removing the last of the lead ingots it was found that a few of the ribs are in renewing as time and ill fitting ingots had done their damage to the surface of the ribs



    These are two of the badly damaged ribs in the lower part of the bilge near the centreboard case.









    The area of the bilge down by the side of the centreboard case now cleaned of the water and the loose dirt







    A whole lot better just a quick cleaning with a washing up liquid and sponge and a scrubbing brush







    Same job here and then un







  29. #64
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    As regards the lead ingots/damge to the ribs - have the ingots been resting on the ribs and then 'festering' in bilge water? If I need to add lead ingots I plan to stay clear of the ribs so bilge water - if any (inevitable) - will flow.

    Can I add that those two tips of shoes look remarkably like mine

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Sanding back the decks to bare wood


    After the first sanding



    Same being done to the foredeck



    Coming up to a good surface



    Foredeck coming back to a good condition, just need a lot more sanding before several coats of varnish



    After a long time with no where to get my Enterprise under cover, I was able to find a small workshop that let me have some space to get the Enterprise worked on and sorted out. So then I can get on with the re-painting and varnishing and finally get her back together so that I can finally take her out for a sail over the summer months with my son. Or are least that is the plan at the moment.


    So now it is a few long days with early starts and late nights to get the varnish work rubbed down and re-varnished the decks and inside and re-paint the hull. Then put all the seats and buoyancy bags back in the boat. Then sort out the rigging and sails and get any new running and standing rigging and get a new up boom top cover. So the list is long, however with help from my son and my apprentice we should get the work done over the next couple of months around my day day as a boat builder.
    Last edited by jstarboats; 03-19-2017 at 02:49 AM.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    The lead ingots are now out of the yacht and are going to be cleaned up and coated with epoxy and the put back in plywood boxes and above the ribs and so the loading can be spread over a larger area. sorry about the foot wear, must remember to keep them out of the photos in future.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    That's a nice idea with the epoxy if I decide to buy some new ingots. Fortunately the standard shape of lead ingots will fit on the keelson and the overhang - because of the shape - clears the ribs. I take it the ply box are principally to retain the ingots?

    Nothin' bad about the shoes:



    Found a new way of cleaning them. Last winter was lying on my stomach in the cockpit reaching down into the bilges and dips the toe of my shoe in a pot of white spirit:


  33. #68
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Hi,
    I like the shoes, that is one way of increasing the length of time you keep the shoes going because of the cost of replacing them is so high, The boxes are to keep the ingots in one place so trimming out the yacht's trim will be a little easier and stop moving around the bilge and damaging the ribs and planking. Because at the moment it as caused a plank to move and caused the yacht to leak along the garboard to keel joint.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    The moment I owned 'TG' I found some lead lying loose on the keelson under the prop shaft. One piece had clearly moved as it had ground against the prop shaft! I just lobbed it out at that time until to see if I really needed it. I didn't. I hope it will be the same with the weight of the bilge keels now gone.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Being called into a boatyard to do a few odd jobs

    Hi,
    So how much loose lead did you have in the bilge, how much weight was in the bilge keels and is there any room in the bilge space to put the weight in lead ingots in the bilge space.

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