Three Thoughts

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Ian McColgin
    Senior Member
    • Apr 1999
    • 51639

    Three Thoughts

    Nov/Dec '16 #253.
    Anyone else struck by the demographic difference pictured on page 47, '50s & '60s and like my memory of pix in earlier WB coverage of the Bahamian sloops, versus all the other pix in this article?

    Jan/Feb '17 #254.
    p.30. The paragraph that begins "A good thing about winter cruising . . . " and then the start of the next paragraph, "Cruising in Maine in winter brings out nice and helpful people." Reminds me of the winter I was tugboating and it seemed that every two week hitch on the tug had miserable weather and my two weeks off were so lovely that I ended up sailing rather than fixing the boat as planned.

    Also Jan/Feb '17 #254.
    Dr. Jagels comprehensively demolishes my long-held prejudices against linseed oil. Some days discovering that one has been wrong is more satisfying than being right.
  • rbgarr
    43.50.918 N, 69.38.583 W
    • Apr 1999
    • 25479

    #2
    Re: Three Thoughts

    Regarding Flekkeroy's unexpected arrival here in December of 2015: a whole host of wood boat enthusiasts did all they could for the young couple as they sailed the coast during that winter's relatively mild weather. They and their boat are respectively at work and secured at Gannon and Benjamin now: https://www.facebook.com/GannonandBenjamin/timeline
    For the most part experience is making the same mistakes over and over again, only with greater confidence.

    Comment

    • gilberj
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2010
      • 4157

      #3
      Re: Three Thoughts

      Hey Ian, why don't you expand on those thoughts. I did not read the articles you reference. Did not buy the Nov/Dec '16 and have not seen Jan/Feb '17

      Comment

      • Ian McColgin
        Senior Member
        • Apr 1999
        • 51639

        #4
        Re: Three Thoughts

        This is the deck for matters concerning WoodenBoat Magazine.

        I spent all too many years buying WB at the news stand, mostly in a personal snit at myself for not having enough money lo those many years ago to answer a begging letter from that hippy in Maine. For $100 I could have had a lifetime subscription, but $100 was not within reach that year during a timber recession when I was selling ling cod, well when selling well under the table but more often bartering with others as cash strapped as I was. Kept that up till our local periodical seller turned into an (in)convenience store.

        All of which is a long way around saying that while I am sympathetic to those whose access to WoodenBoat is sporadic, I can't summarize three articles in a way that will make any sense to those who have not shared the experience of reading them.

        Comment

        • David G
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2003
          • 89687

          #5
          Re: Three Thoughts

          I'm curious what 'long-held prejudices' against BLO the Jagels article dispelled.
          David G
          Harbor Woodworks
          https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

          "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

          Comment

          • gilberj
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2010
            • 4157

            #6
            Re: Three Thoughts

            Try as I might I cannot keep the difference in practical value between 'boiled' and 'raw' linseed oil. I use a little frequently, both on the farm and on the boat, mainly cut 50% with turpentine or paint thinner, or gasoline (farm/marine gas..."dyed".
            I like oil treatment. Easy to apply....

            Comment

            • David G
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2003
              • 89687

              #7
              Re: Three Thoughts

              Originally posted by gilberj
              Try as I might I cannot keep the difference in practical value between 'boiled' and 'raw' linseed oil. I use a little frequently, both on the farm and on the boat, mainly cut 50% with turpentine or paint thinner, or gasoline (farm/marine gas..."dyed".
              I like oil treatment. Easy to apply....
              Not a ton of difference, except that raw takes a good bit longer to dry. 'Boiled' is treated either by applying heat, or - more commonly these days - adding heavy-metal driers. These treatments jump-start the oxidation, or 'polymerization' process.
              David G
              Harbor Woodworks
              https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

              "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

              Comment

              • Ian McColgin
                Senior Member
                • Apr 1999
                • 51639

                #8
                Re: Three Thoughts

                I believed the myth that linseed oil was food for rot. Silly when you think about it.

                Comment

                • gilberj
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2010
                  • 4157

                  #9
                  Re: Three Thoughts

                  Boiled or raw....? The old guys swore on one for certain jobs and the other for other jobs. I just cannot remember which for what. I get the processing difference.
                  Actually vegetable based oils can, if not applied correctly encourage mold.....not necessarily rot. When my kids were small I let them 'paint' the Wooden toys we built with whatever cooking oil we had in the kitchen. If left unused touched for a season or two...some were... they developed a mold on the surface. This was easily cleaned off and could be recoated as desired. This is why I cut linseed oil 50% with turpentine or whatever. Applied in this way I have never seen the mold.

                  Comment

                  • MN Dave
                    Banned
                    • Jul 2011
                    • 3120

                    #10
                    Re: Three Thoughts

                    Boiled linseed oil is treated so that it will dry faster and harder.

                    Linseed oil is edible, so it will support some kind of fungus or bacterial growth. The question is what kind of bug, what conditions, and how fast will the bugs eat the stuff. The good news is slowly, wet and dispersed, and not the same bugs that digest wood. Once it dries, it is extremely hard to digest because the enzymes that work on the fresh oil don't work on the cross linked oil.

                    Demographics can be a touchy issue. I think that the pictures reflect the influence of racing. The locals had a great time with their boats. Then they got competitive, which got expensive, and attracted the the rich tourists who priced the poor locals out of the game. At least someone managed to write the rule that you have to have (hire?) a local skipper. Look at the 3 man crews and funky sails in the old pictures and the 8 or more man crews on the new ones with their sponsors names on the boom.

                    Comment

                    • Ian McColgin
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 1999
                      • 51639

                      #11
                      Re: Three Thoughts

                      I was wondering about the demographic evolution of boatbuilders who get written up and of the sailers. I've not been down there since the late '60s so my ignorance is fairly comprehensive.

                      Comment

                      • Dave Wright
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 1152

                        #12
                        Re: Three Thoughts

                        Originally posted by Ian McColgin
                        This is the deck for matters concerning WoodenBoat Magazine.

                        I spent all too many years buying WB at the news stand, mostly in a personal snit at myself for not having enough money lo those many years ago to answer a begging letter from that hippy in Maine. For $100 I could have had a lifetime subscription, but $100 was not within reach that year during a timber recession when I was selling ling cod, well when selling well under the table but more often bartering with others as cash strapped as I was. Kept that up till our local periodical seller turned into an (in)convenience store.

                        All of which is a long way around saying that while I am sympathetic to those whose access to WoodenBoat is sporadic, I can't summarize three articles in a way that will make any sense to those who have not shared the experience of reading them.

                        I'll stray from this thread a bit, but relate to it a bit too.

                        I subscribed to Woodenboat magazine the first year it came out. Your phrase "a begging letter from that hippy in Maine" struck a chord with me. I remember thinking back then, "why should I pay some hippy to reprint articles and sell them to me, what do hippies know about boats anyway." But as the years past, I picked up copies of WB at booksellers, read them at the library, and for quite a few years now, I've been a subscriber. I've often been impressed with and enjoyed some of the articles.

                        How do I judge the magazine? As a kid starting out in the late 50's I raced dinghies from grade school through college and beyond. My go to magazine was "One Design Yachtsman, the Magazine of Sailboat Racing." Along with that interest, I was pretty much weaned on the Motorboating Ideal Series of books - there must have been at least 40 volumes that I devoured back then. I enjoyed them all, and along with being on the water, developed a sense of what worked and what was more bother than worth. I think of this in the present whenever the new issue of Woodenboat arrives in the mail. And it probably determines whether I'll continue to subscribe.

                        Today number 255, March/April 2017 arrived. I scanned it and got stuck on "Designs: Sketchbook, UKPIK, a 15'- 2" Utility Boat." Sometimes I enjoy this section, but from time to time, me I've noticed some odd conceptions. In this case I thought "What the hell is this, will some neophyte actually build it, and if he does, what are his expectations, and will they be met?"

                        UKPIK - 15 feet long, 5' - 5" beam, 7 inch draft, full standing headroom, and a derrick for carrying an 8 foot pram dinghy across the 4 foot long cockpit. Wood stove for heat too. Has internet boating fantasy arrived in print?

                        A plan view shows the dinghy swung out over the side for launching ( I guess the skipper managed to get out of the pilot house door somehow to swing that dink out). I noticed the bottom sheathing of two layers of 33 ounce biaxial cloth, and a number of other details too. I noticed a sentence in the text: "The proportions.....put UKPIK into the toy-appearance" category of boats that I usually try to stay clear of."

                        But the designer didn't stay clear of it, and presented the full monty. Did my years of reading those Motorboating Ideal Series and spending time on the water ruin me from appreciating creations like this?. Should I reconsider my subscription, and just thumb through the odd issue of WB at the bookstore, buying only an issue that really appeals to me? Pulling an old book from my bookshelf and visualizing good old practical designs in modern materials and techniques has a lot of appeal and is free.

                        I'm left with the thought that I'd really like to see the designer of UKPIK build that boat himself in his own back yard, weld up and install the wood stove that he mentions to keep the boat cozy, build the dinghy too, and launch in the middle of January for some winter cruising during a fine weather break. Then report back to us in a fresh article.

                        Maybe I'm being too brutal? Why shouldn't there be a little boat for the masses? Dreams are nice, but some innocent fellow just might build this dream and find out that it really isn't the dream he imagines. There again, if only dreamers enjoy designs such as this and never build them, the disadvantages if the design will never be known, but maybe magazine sales will even increase on the back of dreams. Who knows?
                        Apple products have always been silly expensive,
                        no one told anyone to buy an iPhone, there are plenty fine cheep non apple cell phones.

                        Comment

                        • Ian McColgin
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 1999
                          • 51639

                          #13
                          Re: Three Thoughts

                          Dave, you are being a little brutal. McGowan is attempting a variation on Bolger's great and crazy sketches. To even row a stroke or two that way means one has the courage to contemplate in public the ridiculous. And manage some sense right there. I really like the stretch and the reflective process. It's a sort of: "Here's what could be done with these desires."

                          Often the wish is far from anything I'd ever countenance.

                          Often some aspect of meeting the wish seems a bit strange to me.

                          Always the process is interesting.

                          The designer is a cross between angel of fulfillment and mediator between client and reality, as I certainly learned as Michael Mason weeded out the stranger of my ideas for 'improving' LFH's Golden Ball.

                          The Sketchbook is just that, a sketchbook. Look at any artist's sketchbook: Very little of it gets unchanged into any finished major work but almost all of the sketches are of interest. The measure of the Sketchbook's value is not any of the good ideas it contains, but is rather how it makes the reader's imagination stretch.

                          Comment

                          • rbgarr
                            43.50.918 N, 69.38.583 W
                            • Apr 1999
                            • 25479

                            #14
                            Re: Three Thoughts

                            As intended, 'Sketchbook' articles are responses to design suggestions submitted by readers. I wrote up a request for a design and the designers responded with consideration and effort that I really appreciated. See SERENA here: http://www.woodenboat.com/serena-0 Will I build the boat? Not likely unless I somehow come into a lot of (very) free cash, and that would include having the design brought from the sketch to a full, buildable package.

                            Ben Fuller, a frequent contributor here submitted the request for what ended up as UPNIK. Given what he had to say about it below, I'll be interested to read more about how his original request was framed:

                            "I am afraid that I'm to blame for this one. A simple winter boat that could be trailered, live in a slip or on a mooring. Think Camden Harbor. A winter equivalent of the MITA Lund that I spend time driving. Tender is egg in your beer; the idea of a tender would be to take along so you could land on an island, or you could put the boat ashore the way we do the Lund's I'll be interested to see the text. Some of the inspiration for me was the winter RI clam skiffs which have little shelters on an outboard."
                            Last edited by rbgarr; 02-14-2017, 07:06 AM.
                            For the most part experience is making the same mistakes over and over again, only with greater confidence.

                            Comment

                            • Dave Wright
                              Senior Member
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 1152

                              #15
                              Re: Three Thoughts

                              Originally posted by Ian McColgin
                              Dave, you are being a little brutal. McGowan is attempting a variation on Bolger's great and crazy sketches. To even row a stroke or two that way means one has the courage to contemplate in public the ridiculous. And manage some sense right there. I really like the stretch and the reflective process. It's a sort of: "Here's what could be done with these desires."

                              Often the wish is far from anything I'd ever countenance.

                              Often some aspect of meeting the wish seems a bit strange to me.

                              Always the process is interesting.

                              The designer is a cross between angel of fulfillment and mediator between client and reality.....
                              Ian, I loved and always enjoyed Bolger's sketches and style. and those of the Atkins, and Farmer too, and others. It's always dreams versus reality. Imitators have to be wary though, because what came through with the style of the greats was a sense of experience and practicality. I can imagine any one of those greats that I mentioned writing a passage to accompany UKPIK that would read something like this:

                              "Let's be frank shipmate. Any fella with the gumption to build this little boat with its 7 inch draft, two layers of 33 ounce biaxial tape, a whole lot of Gouge, and a 6 inch wide sacrificial keel of the densest wood he can get his hands on, and believe me it does take gumption - now that fella, when he gets done is apt to be the practical sort. He'll simply toss a pair of rubber boots in a corner of the cockpit and he'll run that little boat gently up any beach he desires to visit, and the rubber boots will keep his feet toasty dry as he disembarks.

                              That practical fella will just know that trying to carry and handle a 20 square foot dink in a 20 square foot cockpit is simply an abomination, and a pair of rubber boots the solution. Now if he doesn't already know this, then some halcyon winter day when he's crossing a tranquil bay, his little stove glowing red hot, when the wind and current suddenly comes up, and by golly some pot warp wraps around his prop..... now that dinghy strapped to the cockpit coamings is gonna be the cause of some mighty strong cuss words. If he makes it out of this jam he very likely will have abandoned that little dinghy. Hopefully some other fella will find it on his beach, none the worse for wear, and put it to better use."
                              Last edited by Dave Wright; 02-14-2017, 10:42 AM. Reason: spelling
                              Apple products have always been silly expensive,
                              no one told anyone to buy an iPhone, there are plenty fine cheep non apple cell phones.

                              Comment

                              Working...