Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 37

Thread: Skinny Planks

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Billings, Montana
    Posts
    598

    Default Skinny Planks

    Greetings all from arctic Montana. 20" of snow and -16F this morning.

    I bought some beautiful old-growth WRC in Washington a while back for a strip canoe, but its so nice - clear dark brown and tight vertical grain - that I'm having a difficult time bringing myself to cut it into strips. I have about 25 planks of 3/4"x4" that are 16-20' long.

    Is there a hull type or sail/row design that lends itself to narrow lapstrake planking? It will live on a trailer and will ultimately be given to my granddaughter. I see a lot of Scandinavian designs that appear to use narrow planking but its difficult to tell just how wide the planks are. At this point I'm open to all ideas, so let your mind run wild.

    I'm being ushered out the door - talk among yourselves and I'll check in later.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    40,761

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    3/4 is thick for that length of lapstrake boat. 4 inch is to narrow to cut lapstrake planking from, as the planks will all curve across their width.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    central cal
    Posts
    14,225

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    Maybe you could build a canoe? A lapstrake sailing canoe. Then the planks would be narrow, and you might could cut some slant scarfs in the boards to give sweep. The 3/4 inch planks, once spiled and cut, could then be ripped and planed, giving matched, say 1/4"" planks...

    Maybe.


    Peace,
    Robert

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Rushworth Australia
    Posts
    2,509

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    what about strip planking?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    15,030

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    Is the grain correct for a lap or planked boat?
    if not, then ripping into strips fixes them.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    South Australia and Tasmania
    Posts
    15,277

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    Cut it into strips. Your grand daughter will thank you.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    South Australia and Tasmania
    Posts
    15,277

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpatrol View Post
    what about strip planking?
    Get a coffee, come back, read the OP!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Rushworth Australia
    Posts
    2,509

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    yes Ive read the OP thanks Phil. Im asking with that stock why doesnt he consider cutting it into strips and and make a stripper. Clear enough?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    South Australia and Tasmania
    Posts
    15,277

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpatrol View Post
    yes Ive read the OP thanks Phil. Im asking with that stock why doesnt he consider cutting it into strips and and make a stripper. Clear enough?
    I think he was saying that was the original plan, but the wood is so nice he doesn't want to cut it into strips. Maybe I'm just missing the irony in your post.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    5,344

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    I once planked a straight-ribbed dory with straight edged planks. I used a dory lap for the joints. The top edge of the garboard was straight and from there it was the easiest planking ever. The dory laps were the same from one end to the other, I cut them all at once with the planks on edge on the tablesaw. I think it took me less than a week start to finish.

    Doing that you can actually start at the sheer and plank your way down tucking each plank edge under the other. Use Sika 291 in the laps and pull each one tight as you go with copper clinch nails.

    One might expect that the sheer would be a bit odd looking, but it was beautiful, a nice graceful sweep.

    I can't find a picture of a dory lap, but it's easy, just picture a beveled shiplap. You can do that in 2 passes on the saw. Let's say you want to plank with 5/8, with a lap that's 3/4 wide. 3/4 back from the edge you make a vertical cut into the face about a heavy 1/16 deep. Now you turn the plank up on edge and make the beveled cut, leaving another heavy 1/16 at the very edge, thereby avoiding feathered/knife edges. When the 2 are joined it produces a smoot carvel looking hull.

    Hey, I have an idea....Here's a nibbed scarf. Just make it for the full length of both edges of each plank (except the sheer, which is left square at the top).




    You'll need a wider plank to do the garboard, just edge glue and spline to whatever width you need.

    You'll do best to use hydrotec meranti BS1088 for the bottom, and glass the outside of the bottom and garboard all in one piece.

    A couple of dories that will work are the Cape Ann Dory and Bolger's Gloucester Gull. You'll find lots of each in Google Images.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    5,344

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    Thinking about it some more, if you want more stability you can do the same thing with a sharpie or flat iron skiff, each of which can accommodate an outboard.

    Here's a bunch.

    https://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&s...n+rowing+skiff

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Billings, Montana
    Posts
    598

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    Thanks. I like the dory lap and nibbed version but I'm just finishing a flat bottom river boat and not into another dory-type. I have plans for a strip design by Gartside but still feel a little wierd ripping that nice wood but I may. I'm just trying to flesh out some thoughts I was having.

    Is dory lap restricted to flat bottoms? Rabl describes a similar method with parallel plank edges but is carvel with no lap (but forgot it is v-bottom so kinda flat).

    I also have plans and lofting for a 13' jatkanot. Drawings of the forms indicate six planks P&S. How difficult would it be to increase the number of planks to 7 or 8 P&S?

    Thanks for looking.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    5,344

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    I kanot find Jatkanot.

    To plank as I described you need straight sides. The bottom can be whatever.

    You can rip your material into strips then edge glue them back together edgeset with whatever curvature is needed, then cut out the shape. That's a good way to avoid wasting material and accommodate as in Nick's post #2.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    5,344

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    It would help a lot if you/we had a much better idea of what sort of hull you need and want. Just knowing that you want to plank it with straight 3/4 X 4 is not nearly enough.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    23,411

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    Use it for a nice deck on some design?
    If I had a dollar for every girl who found me unattractive, eventually they would find me attractive.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    5,344

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    Thinking about it some more.

    You can always line off a hull to use narrow planks. You'll just have to use lots of scarfed short pieces to follow the sweep of each one.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    72,021

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    A guide boat ?.... if you think you skills are up to it .http://ancorayachtservice.com/?page_id=44

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northern Europe
    Posts
    9,231

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    Depending on the model of jaktanot, easy to line off for extra planks, and a very nice wee boat.


  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    40,761

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    My thoughts have some round to setting the wood aside for a build that will do its quality justice, and buy some plywood or a sawn butt to build the boat.
    Trying to use that WRC in a boat will always require a lot of sawing and a lot of glue.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Billings, Montana
    Posts
    598

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    Thanks all. Really just curious if there was a hull shape that lent itself to narrow planking. Not sure the guideboat is what i'm after but its beautiful.

    What about a pram - preferably long enough to sail reasonably well?

    Jatkanot is #5 from Bertil Andersson.

    Stay warm.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    23,411

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    If I had a dollar for every girl who found me unattractive, eventually they would find me attractive.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,477

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    Build a hard chine power boat with it. A nice hull similar to the Pease boats that's planked in lapstrake and would be a great alternative to your ever growing fleet of sailboats.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    5,344

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    Had me going for a while there. I couldn't find "jatkanot' anywhere, then got my hopes up for "jaktanot", but no dice, so I clicked on properties in skaraborg's post and got "Jaktkanoten".

    Now we're talking!

    https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaktkanot

    Here it is translated.

    Hunting Canoe is a clinker built-decker gig, which was built by the brothers Mårtenssons Båtbyggeri on East Hästholmen, Torhamn, Blekinge.The brothers Mårtensson built more than 1,000 hunting canoes in oak or pine. Even planking of fir occurred. The length varied from 13 feet (3.96 m) to 14 feet (4.27 m). Later, several other boat builders build similar boats in wood. Since fiberglass reinforced polyester began to be used for boat building has the professional wooden construction more or less ceased. [Clarify] Hunting canoe has remained a popular exercise trail on some schools that teach boat building.Hunting canoe used in the past [when?] To hunt stretching waterfowl and for subsistence fishing. Hunting canoe came to a certain extent to be used for recreational purposes. Hunting canoe was propelled by rowing with oars or by sailing with spritsail and jib. In some cases, installed an inboard engine with a cylinder or small outboard motor in hunting canoes for easier use them at different weather conditions and over large distances. Outboard engines demanded special motor mount as hunting canoes as well as all snipor is spetsgattade.

    Now compare this;



    To this;

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Billings, Montana
    Posts
    598

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    I guess since I have the lofting from Bertil, I may try relining his plank lines to see how difficult this might be for me. Thanks for hanging in there Gib.

    Mike - I have the power boat I got from Wayne Grabow so not looking for another right now. Its been a lot of fun. But I do love the sea skiffs and may attempt one one day. Here's my son with Wayne's boat.



    I'm going to focus a while more on the jatkanot. If that doesn't work for me, I'll probably strip Gartside #168 or the Deer Isle koster.

    Thanks all.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    288

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    I have the perfect solution - (this one is on my shortlist for a long time - looks very wonderful) - IO Fulmar with traditional planking options...



    http://nisboats.com/oughtred

    http://nisboats.com/oughtred/pics/large/largedwgs/Fulmar-Planing-Dinghy-2.jpg


  26. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Billings, Montana
    Posts
    598

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    How about one of the Delaware duckers?

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Billings, Montana
    Posts
    598

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    I started this thread some time ago after having bought some WRC for a strip canoe that was too "nice" (in my mind) to cut into strips. I've been thinking a lot about Norwegian prams and copied some plans in the Oslo maritime museum a few months ago. I was focused on Holmsbu-style prams but this 1939 Sam Rabl plan from "How To Build 20 Boats" more closely resembles the Arendals-style of construction and may allow me to use my skinny planks.

    I would like to reduce the size and rake of the forward transom. If I extend the lines forward a bit, that should reduce its size. Since the additional length is entirely above the waterline, it shouldn't affect the sail plan - correct?

    The sail plan shows shrouds, and the mast partner appears to be a weak point. What can be done to beef up the partner and eliminate the shrouds for a free-standing mast? Increase the width of the thwart forward?

    Some scantlings seem a little on the heavy side. Other than looking at other pram plans for insight, can anyone offer other ideas for reducing the scantlings - assuming there is agreement that they are too heavy now?

    [IMG]Scan0003 by Gary Davis, on Flickr[/IMG]


    [IMG]Scan0006 by Gary Davis, on Flickr[/IMG]

    I would appreciate any and all advice on these issues. Thanks for taking the time to help.

    Gary Davis

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    40,761

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    Something like this?

    Norwegian prams have longer pointier bows.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Hasslö, Blekinge, Sweden
    Posts
    607

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    That kind of, usually, rowing boat is found all over Sweden.
    It sometimes has a keel to make it useful for sailing, usually not a CB.
    A standardized model was produced in the early 20th century (my guess) with the name GKSS-eka
    https://digitaltmuseum.se/0110247833.../media?slide=0
    See also https://batritningar.se/sv/batritningar/rundbottnad-eka

    The main issue I see with a narrow strake lapstrake build is the heavier weight compared to "normal" width strakes, the problem will be smaller with the GKSS-eka or similar since the strakes are straight, but still.

    As for the Jaktkanot, the Mårtensson brothers built many but they were neither the first nor the only builders of that boat type.

    /Mats
    Last edited by mohsart; 03-06-2018 at 05:29 PM.
    My blog about my time as a boat building student, a rigger apprentice and Journeyman http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Hasslö, Blekinge, Sweden
    Posts
    607

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    And since the strakes narrows off towards the stem on the GKSS-eka, you may end up with too little material there...

    /Mats
    My blog about my time as a boat building student, a rigger apprentice and Journeyman http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Billings, Montana
    Posts
    598

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    I was thinking of extending the lines only about a foot or so. I was drawn to this design, after looking at dozens of designs here and in Norway, by the CB and lug rig set-up. I ultimately want a design that will suit young adults acting as kids and kids. It will be my swan song if I finish.

    What do you think about the mast partner?

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Hasslö, Blekinge, Sweden
    Posts
    607

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    Thing is, your planks are about 10 cm wide, with 2 cm lap that makes for 8 cm wide strakes at the widest.
    Say that the measurement around the hull at it's widest is 2 m, that makes 25 strakes including the "keel-plank".
    At the fore transom you'll still have 25 strakes and 2 cm laps, so if the measurment around the hull at the transom is 50 cm you'll end up with only laps.
    Wider boat at it's widest or smaller fore transom may be a challenge.

    I'm sure you could easilly make the mast partner stronger in many ways. If you don't need a tabernacle, you could just move the mast partner forwards and drill a hole in it for the mast. That's what I'd do.

    /Mats
    My blog about my time as a boat building student, a rigger apprentice and Journeyman http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Hasslö, Blekinge, Sweden
    Posts
    607

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    This boat was a lifeboat on a lightship
    20180307_082238.jpg
    Strakes are made from 13 cm wide planks
    20180307_082254.jpg
    Hard to see (bad light, sorry) but there's not much left of the strake width at the fore transom.

    This is a GKSS-eka
    20180307_082750.jpg
    Strakes made from 16 cm wide planks.
    And here's the fore transom
    20180307_082807.jpg

    /Mats
    My blog about my time as a boat building student, a rigger apprentice and Journeyman http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Valnesfjord, Norway
    Posts
    834

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    Closer to building a pram Gary! Good!

    In another thread somewhere it was discussed gluing two boards together to get wider strakes for lapstrake building. Could that be an option if your boards are too narrow?

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Billings, Montana
    Posts
    598

    Default Re: Skinny Planks

    OK - I'm starting to get it.

    I guess I could glue planks together. Rabl's plank widths on the plans at the widest section seem to indicate my planks will work but it will be close. As an update, I have an 8" wide plank and a couple of 5" planks in addition to the 4" planks and plenty of locust for the keel plank. All of these except the keel plank would be resawn into two planks - one per side.

    Too stubborn to give up yet. Stay tuned.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •