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Thread: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

  1. #71
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Looks like you have it handled, bud, so I won't trouble you anymore. Since I have done boat restoration for 35 years, some people think my views are at least worth considering. Some of your choices you will likely regret, but good luck.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    So has the guy helping do the repairs. 40 years...... I hear this every day from people that never agree on how to work on and maintain wooden boats.

    Again what seam compound? The interlux is not for this application, it's to hard, and the petti is no longer available. Do you have a linseed putty recipe? Any advice other than a generic term like seam putty.

    Plastic wood filler? Why? Is there some reason it works well below the water line? I used this on the topside and every single one poped out the following season. I have been a carpenter for 20 years and this stuff is **** for most applications. I welcome advice but it needs to be explained and be followed with specifics.

    Sorry if I was stand offish. But your response was vague.

    Why not use dynaglass in an area I will be replacing in a year or two? Especially since there was a leak?

    And for the record the one doing the repair has been maintaining this boat for 30 years. Her hull and bottom are in fantastic shape considering she went 12 years between haul outs before I got her. So the guy knows his ****. Some of his repairs from 20 years ago are still like new.
    Last edited by Hill160881; 02-06-2017 at 12:04 PM.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Anyway.....

    I got time inbetween rain showers to remove the inner chine.



    It did rot the edge of the bottom plank and the plywood so I plan to remove one plank and take a look and make repairs as needed.



    This is the inner chine. The V cut changes angle and width as you go forward. Should be an easy cut assuming my hand is still strong enough to run the circular saw with the angle lock off and to smoothly get the angle to change. I only need to get t close and I can finish it up with a chisel.



    This is how it fits into position.



    I had to take it out in pieces and I saved them in order to pull measurements and angles from where they are not totally rotten and useless.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    It's a bit hard to tell from the pictures, but is her bottom an inner layer of plywood that is then covered with an outer layer of planks? Or the other way around?

  5. #75
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Inner layer of plywood then planking.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hill160881 View Post
    Inner layer of plywood then planking.
    wow, she is built just like my little 17ft Chris Craft (inner was originally diagonal plank covered by outer of straight plank but I replaced the inner with plywood when I restored her) but she is just a lot bigger boat! Were they still putting canvas soaked with linseed oil in between the two layers of her bottom when she was built? That's what they had done on my little runabout. I was glad to be rid of it. Really promoted rot after the oil dried out and water took its place.

    God all this rain must suck for you. Will they let you work on her under some plastic and an easy up at least??
    Last edited by leop; 02-09-2017 at 08:44 PM.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    It looks like they just set the planking in white led putty. No canvas. I was sure it had canvas but no. Not even any gap between boards. Just led putty and but them together. Dry as a bone between the two layers.

    The rain will give me a 5 day window and I should be able to get it done in that time with the help I have. A lot will happen in a short time now. Starting with tomorro and continuing until she hits the water next week.

    I am excited to get her wet and hook up the engines. Also to get her back in her slip and get the decks and rails I paid for done.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Working on the chine. Test fitting it before I replace a plywood strip. My friend doing the chine is having fun. Haha




  9. #79
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hill160881 View Post
    Working on the chine. Test fitting it before I replace a plywood strip. My friend doing the chine is having fun. Haha



    does your friend want a job in Napa. Looks like he does nice work. What kind of wood are you using? Did you get it locally ?

  10. #80
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Haha He is old and slow and shows up at 1..... but yes he does good work. When you can get him on site Nailed that piece on the first try. His experience is evident. Honestly nothing I cant do. The number of times we get asked for a card it's a good thing neither of us has one. He is more interested in his 80 something footer he is working on on the east coast. He is just helping me out in a pinch. There is no way I can get this done fast enough by myself with all that is getting done.
    Last edited by Hill160881; 02-11-2017 at 07:34 PM.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    The lower inner chine is done. That's the hard one.





    It was done in two pieces to accommodate the bends and such.


    This area looked bad so I took the outer chine off and it's only on the surface and some epoxy should do the trick.

  12. #82
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    For those who think I am doing something wrong with the sikaflex let me explain the logic behind it for this application. We simply can not get the tolerances needed with this repair for seam compounds or putty to do its job. If you look at the many changing angles and the bends with this chine there is no way me or Chris can get it that close. Can we get it close? Very as evident by the pics but not enough the make a water tight seal guaranteed. Some may disagree but I feel this is simply admitting the limitations of the situation and not sticking to old methods that would take much longer than we have and with a much higher likelihood of a leak. What most won't accept is this is a double planked lower and a board and baton up top design and that differed from most sail boats that need different methods and materials. If you disagree that's fine


    Inner chine done! Just bolts and final faring. Tomorrow we will set the plywood and lower planking.




    The lower angle is still off by a small amount but it was as close enough.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Lower planking ready to screw up. Should be ready to paint by tomorrow evening if all goes well.





    Also got the sikaflex done on all the problem areas. Tomorrow I will sand the lines then dynaglass all the screw holes.


  14. #84
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Almost there. Just one more board and the lower outer chine. Hopefully the weather does not go to total **** and add another week for the last days work. It most likely will
    No leak construction.


    Then lots of screws



    Very close.

  15. #85
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Today was a long day but productive. Tomorrow is the day. I have some dynaglass and some sikaflex to do but it's all small stuff that won't take more than an hour or two.

    At the very back of the keel it had a leak after it rained. I was sure I fixed this but no. Glad it rained. So I carved out a 1/4 inch by 4 inch notch between board joints where the keel ends and the bottom planking begins. I am sure there is a term I don't know. Since it would not dry out i decided to use a technique with water activated expanding wood glue. Gorilla glue Then I made a plug and pounded it in. No more drip which means no more leak.
    The hole I carved out.


    The tapered plug I made.



    Then pound it in with lots of glue and let it set up.


    Then once it's dry tape it off and sikaflex the area. I made the plug 1/8" receded to leave room for the sikaflex. No more leak or drip from inside. This repair was made while it was dripping wet and was solid as a rock.


  16. #86
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    The outer chine is done.
    During the process.



    The port side is sealed up with no leaks. Ready for its final paint.

  17. #87
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Two questions. As I recall you were using family wood to seal screw holes above the water line. Why not just use dyna-glass both above and below the water line? Is there a big cost difference?

    Also can you tell me where you got your wood and how much it cost?

    Looks good, though it would have been fun to come help ��

  18. #88
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Dynaglass or bondo glass is a different hardness and sands at a different rate than the wood. So above the water line it makes for for issues. Also it is two part where the famowood is apply right out of the can and sands similar to the wood. Had to drive to Berkeley to get the wood. MacBeath hardwood.

    She is ready to hit the water. Like it never happened.



    The yard operator asked me how long I would need to leave it in the sling and both me and Chris laughed out loud. No time at all. Just put it in and move it over to the dock. I doubt there will be much leaking. Hell it full of water and not leaking out now.
    Last edited by Hill160881; 02-18-2017 at 12:41 AM.

  19. #89
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    LOL, yea but the water is on the inside! It's no wonder with this constant rain we have had. I suppose you could have run the bilge pumps , water's water right!

    The repair looks great and is really solid, that much is clear.

    McBeth does seam to be the go-to place around here for nice mahogany, but I like to ask people because experience is the final word on which vendors offer the best service price and quality.

    So do you leave the Dynaglass just a bit proud to avoid sanding too much of the wood around it off. I mean it's under the water line so who cares right.

    I am looking forward to seeing how the engines, and especially that new gauge package perform for you. I noticed in the pictures that there is what looks to be a Keel cooler on the skeg. Is that for her propulsion engines, or something else. I don't see the keel coolers on the faster boats and always wondered why.

    Well congratulations on getting her down so fast, and getting out of the rain. I just hate working in the rain because it makes even the easiest jobs a PIA.

    Cheers,

    Leo

  20. #90
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    I do leave the dyna glass a bit proud and then knock it down with an angle grinder prior to paint. Remember it's below the water line and not seen.


    Actually thats not a cooler on the keel. It's for strength as best I can figure. There is a pipe cooler like this for the old refrigerator down by the keel. I wanted to remove it but forgot this haul out.

    In total this all took 6 days if not for that winch Mother Nature and her rain.

  21. #91
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Something else I did that made a huge difference on that port side was to take a members, pcfords, advice and pulled the screws and I found some #10s with bigger heads that were 1/2 inch longer and I replaced all the leaking screws with the longer ones. Then after the smiths cpes had set up I pounded in tapered plugs with gorilla glue. Then dynaglassed the rest. Not one leak from inside anymore.

    The wood cost was 3grand.
    Last edited by Hill160881; 02-18-2017 at 08:35 AM.

  22. #92
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Wonderful work. It is incredible for you tackling such a large beautiful project.

  23. #93
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    good progress!
    Nothing else matters but how I raise my children ... and their opinion of me, as a father.

  24. #94
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hill160881 View Post
    Something else I did that made a huge difference on that port side was to take a members, pcfords, advice and pulled the screws and I found some #10s with bigger heads that were 1/2 inch longer and I replaced all the leaking screws with the longer ones. Then after the smiths cpes had set up I pounded in tapered plugs with gorilla glue. Then dynaglassed the rest. Not one leak from inside anymore.

    The wood cost was 3grand.
    $3K! are you serious?

  25. #95
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Then another 500 for stainless screws. The silicone bronze were $1500 and I said screw that.
    Last edited by Hill160881; 02-18-2017 at 05:43 PM.

  26. #96
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    You might want to edit that last post before the moderator sees it.

  27. #97
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Oops I thought the filter would get it. Working in a boat yard for a while you develop a certain language

    She is home and the pump has only kicked on once. So in a day or two she will be tight. The repair is dry.
    Last edited by Hill160881; 02-18-2017 at 05:49 PM.

  28. #98
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Yea, I was going to ask you about the screws being SS instead of SB, but I knew the answer so I didn't bother. But the wood, that really surprised me. When I go to Asia I see people building pallets out Mahogany.

    I would really like to see more threads and information devoted to some of the more harsh realities of building and maintaining wooden boats. When a shipwrights is doing the work it makes sense not to skimp on material. But if your boat had been owned by a 20 year old could it really be justified telling him to spend $3k on wood, versus $500 on wood and to then be prepared to do it again at 30. It could be the difference between saving a boat or scraping it, and at the same time making a young guy happy and helping him feel empowered to build stuff.

    Anyway, I'll be spending a lot of work, and I personally don't want to do the work again in 10 years so I better suck it up I guess.

  29. #99
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    There is a saying. Don't try to make an old woody new again. A lot of people will try to make an old boat new again at the expense of reason. I try to find a realistic middle ground. I Do what is within my abilities and price range and be glad another old wooden boat is not on the chopping block.

  30. #100
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Quote Originally Posted by leop View Post
    Yea, I was going to ask you about the screws being SS instead of SB, but I knew the answer so I didn't bother. But the wood, that really surprised me. When I go to Asia I see people building pallets out Mahogany.

    I would really like to see more threads and information devoted to some of the more harsh realities of building and maintaining wooden boats. When a shipwrights is doing the work it makes sense not to skimp on material. But if your boat had been owned by a 20 year old could it really be justified telling him to spend $3k on wood, versus $500 on wood and to then be prepared to do it again at 30. It could be the difference between saving a boat or scraping it, and at the same time making a young guy happy and helping him feel empowered to build stuff.

    Anyway, I'll be spending a lot of work, and I personally don't want to do the work again in 10 years so I better suck it up I guess.
    I helped a guy three years ago do some similar work and we used some thin 3/4 marine ply wood. Cut it into planking sized strips and scarfed them together. Looks great and is still leak free. Looking at her you will never know and I guarantee the repair I made will out last the boat. Replaced 200' of planking half of it below the water line and it was something like 500 bucks for supplies. Boat was going to be cut up due to a 20 grand repair estimate. Less than 3 grand later she launched and is still going.

    Like I said. Don't make them new. That old boat was beautiful inside amd out and was going to be cut up because it was cheaper to do that than fix it the right way. It now will last another 20 years.
    Last edited by Hill160881; 02-19-2017 at 08:18 AM.

  31. #101
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hill160881 View Post
    I helped a guy three years ago do some similar work and we used some thin 3/4 marine ply wood. Cut it into planking sized strips and scarfed them together. Looks great and is still leak free. Looking at her you will never know and I guarantee the repair I made will out last the boat. Replaced 200' of planking half of it below the water line and it was something like 500 bucks for supplies. Boat was going to be cut up due to a 20 grand repair estimate. Less than 3 grand later she launched and is still going.

    Like I said. Don't make them new. That old boat was beautiful inside amd out and was going to be cut up because it was cheaper to do that than fix it the right way. It now will last another 20 years.
    That's a great example and idea. But how did you get that much marine plywood for $500??

    Yes, this sounds like a really good idea for a few planks I have commingled up.

    Thanks, maybe you just saved another one!

    Leo

  32. #102
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    One sheet makes like 40-60 feet of planking.

    This next week or two I will take to get the engines hooked up and running.
    Last edited by Hill160881; 02-19-2017 at 05:15 PM.

  33. #103
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Any update? Been almost a month!
    Nothing else matters but how I raise my children ... and their opinion of me, as a father.

  34. #104
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    No working. It's almost boating season. So evrone amdnthere mom wants stuff done. Soon though.

  35. #105
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    Default Re: 1961 Chris Craft constellation refit/repower long term project.

    Remember how my marina shut me down saying I was not allowed to do this kind of work on my boat in its slip?

    This is an old house boat from the early 80s they stripped to the deck in the slip next to me. Rules only apply to me I guess.





    Stripped to the decking. Never once protected the water or a damn thing.



    All this whole telling me to cover up mine or get evicted.

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