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Thread: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

  1. #1
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    Default Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    Dear all,

    I'm building a kayak and for fairing the inside concave surfaces, I decided to try Bosch PRR250 ES. I know many like scrapers for concave surfaces but the Bosh also works extremely good. The machine is not available in their professional series, but build-quality is good and I'm very happy with the tool.








    /Fredrik

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    Looks like a mini floor sander! But... did you even try using pull scrapers? much.. less dust
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...58#post3996158

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    That particular machine does not appear to be available in the USA.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    How fair could that little roller actually make things? Cleaning up lumps of glue, sure. Fair? I don't see how.



    Steven

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Looks like a mini floor sander! But... did you even try using pull scrapers? much.. less dust
    Yes, I like scrapers as well.... :-)


    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    That particular machine does not appear to be available in the USA.

    Jeff
    I thinks it's brand new in Europe as well, give it a couple of months and maybe it appears in the stores.


    /Fredrik

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    How fair could that little roller actually make things? Cleaning up lumps of glue, sure. Fair? I don't see how.



    Steven
    I'm sorry for my poor english and for not being clear enough. You are right that it doesn't fair the surface. But it does a good job when prepping the surface for inside sheathing (i.e. removing epoxy make the surface smooth and sanding filler).

    /F

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    I've seen this similar tool for sale at Lowes around here: http://www.wellingtontool.com/porter-cable-restorer


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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls


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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    The nice thing with the Bosch sander is that you can reach almost everywhere and sand on both sides of the roller. The machine on the picture above looks far to bulky.

    /F

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    I recon one could fair pretty well with practice.
    Not long board fair.

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    Thats a new tool to me, looks ideal for small projects and would save some elbow gease/grief. Only looks about as wide as my belt sander though, how wide is that drum?

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    A heat gun is good at removing epoxy squeeze-out, too.
    I could see creating some rolling hills rather than fair surfaces.

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    Rolling hills? Think of the cylindrical section divots you could leave behind!


    Steven

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    That particular machine does not appear to be available in the USA.

    Jeff
    or Australia.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Thats a new tool to me, looks ideal for small projects and would save some elbow gease/grief. Only looks about as wide as my belt sander though, how wide is that drum?
    While i bought it for the kayak, I suspect it will be very handy for work on the large Gartside cutter as well. The drum is maybe 60-70 mm wide.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimConlin View Post
    A heat gun is good at removing epoxy squeeze-out, too.
    I could see creating some rolling hills rather than fair surfaces.
    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    Rolling hills? Think of the cylindrical section divots you could leave behind!


    Steven
    As with any sander or any tool for that matter, you have to pay attention to what you are doing. But the design makes the sanding easy to control. There are alternatives and the sander is not a magic solution. But I'm happy with the tool.

    /F
    Last edited by trango; 12-04-2016 at 11:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    I have been considering one of these for while to clean up some of my epoxy fillets in hard to reach areas, I was watching videos on you tube before I went to bed then this morning the first post I find is this one
    They have been available on Australia for a few years but are now a bit hard to find although Bunnings still stock all the extras for them, I checked with my local small hardware store and they had one on the shelf that had been there for a while and reduced it from $175 down to $129, I am now looking forward to playing with it on the weekend

    Phill

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    Think you could run it through some fillets with some practice and make them very smooth and round with very little hand work to follow.

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    I had a go with it yesterday to clean up the fillet between my rubbing strip and the hull, it's much like a belt sander, in the right hands you can do wonderful things with it however you could also chew some awesome holes if you weren't careful.


    Phill

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    Mermod,

    Did you use the solid rolls or the "flapdisc"? Careful sanding should not be a problem with the flapdisc and even the solid rolls works very nice if you slow the speed and take some care.

    I have not first hand experience of fillets but maybe this narrow flapdisc could work?


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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    just a quick update to this thread, another one of our local hardware stores closed down lately (K+D Warehouse) and I found they had all the various fitting's half price so I stocked up and have been having a good play with my little sander, must say I love it, kinda like a dremel for bigger projects, the solid drum is great for removing epoxy in a square corner like where a side panel meets a floor etc, also great for cleaning up epoxy fillets with the little conical drum




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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    Quote Originally Posted by mermod View Post
    I had a go with it yesterday to clean up the fillet between my rubbing strip and the hull, it's much like a belt sander, in the right hands you can do wonderful things with it however you could also chew some awesome holes if you weren't careful.
    Phill
    Just so.

    I find that a lot of folks who argue against various tools, most notably abrasive tools, simply haven't bothered to learn how to use them. It does take some practice.

    One of the nifty things about woodworking is that there are usually several ways to approach any task. So if someone doesn't want to learn to use a belt sander, or a disk sander, or somesuch... good on 'em, and bless their cotton socks. But don't then turn around and tell me the tool you know little about... doesn't work, or is dangerous, or is the 'wrong' tool for the job.

    If we speak from our personal experience, and don't get too far out over our skis with drawing conclusions from that experience - esp. when it is scant - it keeps the discussion on the 'informing and helpful' side of the tracks.

    <Dismounting hobbyhorse>
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    Phill, thanks for the photos and at least I now know it's available in Oz.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Just so.

    I find that a lot of folks who argue against various tools, most notably abrasive tools, simply haven't bothered to learn how to use them. It does take some practice.

    One of the nifty things about woodworking is that there are usually several ways to approach any task. So if someone doesn't want to learn to use a belt sander, or a disk sander, or somesuch... good on 'em, and bless their cotton socks. But don't then turn around and tell me the tool you know little about... doesn't work, or is dangerous, or is the 'wrong' tool for the job.

    If we speak from our personal experience, and don't get too far out over our skis with drawing conclusions from that experience - esp. when it is scant - it keeps the discussion on the 'informing and helpful' side of the tracks.

    <Dismounting hobbyhorse>
    Couldn't agree more... Fortunately, there will always be people that see through ignorance and go ahead and explore..

    /F
    Last edited by trango; 03-19-2017 at 08:40 AM.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    I wonder what Bruce ( Wizbang ) uses if he wants a smooth inside surface ? A foam pad disc?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    I take my old foam soft pads, about an inch thick, and cut them down to a smaller diameter. Then I hand cut a slightly oversized disc of sand paper, 36-60 grit, and go in at slow speed. The trick is to start slowly so the sandpaper bends over in the beginning without tearing. Once it gets going it works very well. As with all disc sanding , a bit of practice to keep it moving nicely .
    If the sandpaper is cut too big, or you go in too fast, or the sander is going too fast, ...then we get more disc sander horror stories .
    bruce

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    Glue on pad, not the Velcro type

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    Nice little tool
    I used to use these in an industrial role, adjustable speeds made all the difference in abrasive longevity and effectiveness.
    http://www.suhner-abrasive-expert.co...rotomax_15.pdf

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Just so.

    I find that a lot of folks who argue against various tools, most notably abrasive tools, simply haven't bothered to learn how to use them. It does take some practice.

    One of the nifty things about woodworking is that there are usually several ways to approach any task. So if someone doesn't want to learn to use a belt sander, or a disk sander, or somesuch... good on 'em, and bless their cotton socks. But don't then turn around and tell me the tool you know little about... doesn't work, or is dangerous, or is the 'wrong' tool for the job.

    If we speak from our personal experience, and don't get too far out over our skis with drawing conclusions from that experience - esp. when it is scant - it keeps the discussion on the 'informing and helpful' side of the tracks.

    <Dismounting hobbyhorse>
    Well said David...and a 9.7 on the dismount!

    As a lowly apprentice in the early 70's at Vic Franck's on Lake Union I had the privilege of watching and talking with the famous Dudley. He was called in by all the yards when a new hull or new teak deck needed fairing. His weapon was the old, heavy, Black and Decker grinder, the old resin filled backer pads(very stiff), and anywhere from 36 to 80 grit 7" discs.
    It was amazing to watch him go at a 65' red cedar, wedge seamed hull, producing a baby butt smooth and fair surface for the painters to prime and paint...no epoxy fillers were needed, just primer and some very thin putties. When he got really warmed up and on the finer grits, he would run two B &D's, one in each hand. He was a huge guy, with massive arms, arrived on his Harley, and loved putting his tux on and going to the opera. Legendary.
    I asked him why not use a plane to do the rough fairing, and he stared down at me and I'm sure thought "Pipsqueek little know it all", but patiently explained that the disc sander was a precision tool when operated correctly, each pinnacle of grit like a sharp plane blade. He further said that the disc was used flat on the surface, never on edge, and if you let your fingers just feel which quadrant of the disc is doing the cutting it would move smoothly over the surface, making it fair. One hand on the trigger, no side handle ever used, the other hand over the head of the tool, and after his explananation, I could begin to 'feel' the cutting edge and let it glide left and right, up and down, hitting the high spots just like with a plane.
    It was exactly like operating a rotary floor polisher...if you just thought about applying a bit of pressure on the far quadrant of the pad, the machine would drift slowly to the left, and so on to control the movement, apply too just chi pressure on a quadrant and the machine would sail for the wall. Since I had spent many an hour during college cleaning and waxing floors with those beasts his explanation made sense.
    I was able, over time, to use a disc grinder to fair teak decks and freshly planked hulls of my own with some success, though such a chore today would punish my body something fierce.

    Every tool in your quiver has a proper time and function in producing good work in a timely manner.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    ^Dudley would "pile on" 004 grit floor surfacing discs for bottom jobs ( anti fouling removal).
    Yes,zerozerofour. Floor surfacing discs are heavy paper backed. After some time he would just rip the top one off, and resume work.
    The article about him in Wooden Boat magazine during the eighties was a moment of redemption for me. Many times, When I pulled out my disc sander to spin a boat, folks would dismiss me before I started. (Same thing with my hatchet).

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    We had a guy in S. Ca. ,Eddie Eader. His expertise was in removing bottom paint and fairing hulls. Dressed in a full diving suit and hood with a fresh air supply from his noisy pump truck, Eddie would grind away eons of built up bottom paint using just what has been described above. Watchiing him work was scarry and always from up wind. When he was done, the bottoms he ground were always fair as if he had used a chalked batten as a guide.
    Eddie is no longer with us as Father Time got to him. But he was a grand artisan with his grinder and noisy power truck.
    Jay

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    I was shown how to use s disc grinder by a very experienced boatbuilder, it is by far the most used tool in a wooden boat repairers arsenal. He showed me how to make a smooth polished finish by moving the grinder flat and slow, how to scarf, joint, fair, shape etc it's an amazing tool in the right hands.
    whatever rocks your boat

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    I would go for a 10" disk sander on a large angle grinder.

    It actually is pretty amazing how good a job you can do with that. (It can also be a bit of a double edged sword knowing what you are doing with one.). Early in my career when working in a shipyard we had about a 75 ft eastern rigged dragger come in for her annual paint. Sometime previously someone had really done a job on the poor boat's top sides with a disk sander with scoops and dished spots all over the place. I was asked to help the painting crew with the prep work so I grabbed one of the big angle grinders, put a big sanding disk on it and went to work starting at the stem and working aft. I just figured I'd do a decent job and move as fast as I could, there was sanding dust flying. After a bit I noticed that the whole painting crew was over on the other side of the boat and not much farther along than where I was. I also noticed the yard owner, the foreman and the boat's owner leaning on a railing just watching me. A few minutes later the foreman came up to me and said the boat's owner was really happy with my work and requested that I did all the sanding. ..... I went back to sanding and the paint crew went off to other things. When painted, the boat practically looked like it had been long boarded (or at least in comparison the the hack job that came in.)

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    Well done Ned. I'm OK with my Makita 7'' disc sander...... on hardwood but soft wood can be difficult. Things can go wrong very fast.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    and my most essential tool when sanding, especially paint. My ancient Racal Airhat. This thing is a lifesaver !

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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    Default Re: Good (new?) machine for fairing the inside of strip-built hulls

    I wear a 3m full face / respirator thingy, but I like to employ artificial wind . Fans and leaf blowers.
    That said, my techniques are no longer welcome in "boatyards".
    Cleek will love this ... "boatyard" in parentheses .. !!
    Blow that toxic crap into the next county.

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