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Thread: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

  1. #1
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    Default Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Hi folks. I've been poking around on the forum for a week or two now ever since I got obsessed with the idea of building a stitch and glue dinghy. Lots or really useful threads and I've finally plumped on getting the plans for one of Dudley Dix' Argie 15's. I've dropped some fairly hefty hints to my girlfriend and I'm fairly certain she's getting me the plans for Christmas.

    I'm a 45 year old bloke from Southampton England, which unfortunately means its too cold to work with Epoxy resin for a while but I'm sure there's plenty of other stuff to be getting on with. Such as building balsa models to test the stitch and glue concept.... (I'm that obsessed). I've been sailing all my life and messed around sailing and fixing dinghies in my younger days (I had a beaten up old 470 for a while). This'll be my first new build though. I've got lots of ambitious plans that my woodworking skill probably can't deliver

    There are some really pretty builds on the forum. I might need some advice from fellow builders as time goes by if that's ok?

    Really excited about getting started... Christmas can't come soon enough ;-)

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Last edited by Nikky; 11-18-2016 at 12:50 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    If your working in a garage, the epoxy will go off fine overnight even in winter. If it's truely freezing then an infra red pig lamp will keep it warm enough.

    If you don't get plywood from Robbins Timber, International Timber have just started importing Joubert Occume plywood. It's good stuff and a bit cheaper.

    When I asked this year 7 sheets of 6mm was 35 each + VAT, plus delivery (75 + Vat). Might have gone up with the pound/ euro devaluation though.

    http://www.internationaltimber.com/n...oubert-plywood

    I bought some very nice Sapeli from Totton Timber in Southampton.

    If you want spar grade Sitka Spruce, call or go to Stones Boatyard. They also import the best Yellow Cedar for us when you want something light, durable and glues well.

    MAS Epoxy is about the best, only surpassed now by Sicomin epoxy (all the benefits of MAS but doesn't crystallise in the tubs) which would is arguably the choice pick today.

    East Coast fibreglass and CFS will supply your glass needs. Aluminium Warehouse if your wanting aluminium tube. Read Gougeon book on epoxy boatbuilding before you start.

    Put plenty of light and power points around your garage. Get a Makita 4351FCT barrel jigsaw. Buy Veritas planes if you like nice things and their plane sharpening jig. Buy a laminate trimmer and fit a round over bit if you want your straight parts to finish looking professional and hold coatings.

    At the very least epoxy the inside of the boat to the turn of the bilge. Make a breathable peaked Sunbrella cover for it when your finished.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Thanks Edward, Very helpful advice. I went down to Foulks' boat yard this afternoon and he told me pretty much the same thing.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Thanks Edward, Very helpful advice. The Gougeon book is a free download. Just flicking through it now. I'm thinking to keep the costs down a bit, I might build the hull planks out of marine ply but do the fitting out in WBP grade. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Congratulations on getting into your Argie with lots of research. With regard to fitting out, I don't know what WBP is but would recommend making sure that whatever you use is void free and has a good thickness in the outer plies. If you go too cheap the outer plies are paper thin and will cause you no end of trouble when you get to finishing (DAMHIK). Other than that don't rush, do it once and do it right. If you're not sure about any step just ask. You'll find lots of help here.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Delighted to hear of your decision to build an Argie 15. She was relatively easy to build for a complete novice like me, and we've enjoyed sailing, rowing, and fishing with ours. I commenced my build in late autumn and was able to proceed with the filleting and taping the seams through winter by tenting the boat and blowing in warmed air from a heater to help the epoxy cure. Sometimes the garage went down into the 30s F but it was in the 70s in the tent. Happy to answer any of your questions.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Best of luck with your build. Some folks here recommend thrift-store electric blankets for curing epoxy. And for some glue joints you can use a polyurethane construction adhesive, which is moisture-cured instead of heat-cured, and can be used at much lower temps.

    It won't work for critical joints, or anything exposed to the surface like fillets or fibreglassed decks, but is fine for things like rowlock bases and similar low-load joints.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    I've built boats using epoxy in unheated garages in southern England through several winters with no problems. Two tips:

    - Store your resin & hardener in a box/cupboard heated by a 40W incandescent bulb and this should keep it between 15 and 20 degrees C. Much easier to mix and apply.
    - An oilfilled electric radiator with its thermostat set on low placed close to (ideally underneath) but not touching the curing epoxy will keep things warm enough through most nights (I had one to hand and didn't have an IR pig lamp) for it to cure overnight
    Nick

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Cheers guys. I had a chat with the chap in my chandlery today and he says epoxy will cure as long as the temperature is over 5 degrees. There should be plenty of days where that's likely (what with globul warming and all). Just gotta wait for the plans to arrive in Santa's sack now then I can start lofting.

    WBP is water and boil proof plywood by the way. Basically external quality but not marine ply. My apologies, ive been so wrapped up in research I'd got jargonised. There was an interesting section in gougeon's book where he said to test your ply by soaking, boiling and baking it for half an hour. If it doesn't delaminate, it's good. The only problem I can see with that is that my girlfiend already thinks I'm mad. If I start cooking wood she might get the doctors in to certify me insane.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    So, I've been reading the forum and seen advice that it's good to use mylar to lay on fibre glass butt joints. I've got two questions regarding this.
    1) is the purpose of this to excluded air so that the joint cures smoothly?
    2) does this mean the clear plastic mylar sheeting or the silver "space blanket" type material?

    Updates on my progress; I've managed to source a wood store that can deliver the marine plywood for 21 per sheet so no need to compromise with mere exterior ply. I'm very happy about this as I was worried about compromising on quality and the added weight factor. I've also found a place that can sell me the aluminium tubing for the mast and spars.

    I'm having trouble finding a source for sail material here in the UK. Does anybody have any suggestions?

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Nikky, don't buy that "marine" plywood without looking at it first. You want to count the veneers, look at the veneer thickness, look for holes in the edges that might mean there are holes in it elsewhere, you want to know what the wood veneer species are all the way through, look at the surface quality for knots and ask which factory it came out of.

    Anyone can stamp it marine ply without inspection. There is especially awfull material out there. At that price it could well be trash, only good for patterns, especially if is Chinese/ Far East. House builder's "marine ply" to satisfy a reg, is not the same as boatbuilder quality. Most house building plywood that is rated "marine" is total crap. It will have thin outer veneers, fewer veneers, non duarble internal veneers of poplar, holes in the laminate and no clear faces.

    Buy Joubert, Anchor or Bruynzeal. You want Lloyds approved marine Occume plywood for quality and light weight on that boat. There are some good deals but usually you get what you pay for, and at that price, it's probably awfull. Don't skimp on this bit. If you can't afford that Joubert price, you can't afford to build this boat safely and with any quality, just buy a clean Wayfarer or Wanderer that you'll get most of your money back on when you sell it.

    If you find it's not good enough, you'll have to buy the good stuff then you'll have spent more. Just saying check it very carefully if it's cheap before paying for it.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    The sail cloth supplier to use is http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/englishsea...88.m1543.l2754

    He is based in Weymouth and has loads of remnants. 75 am sail cost about 40 a few years ago.

    you need to go Down there with cash and he will dig out what you need.

    Brian

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Sound advice. They said I could pick it myself before delivery so I'll do that before I part with any cash.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Cool. A trip to Weymouth it is then (after I've got the plans). I just bought the Aluminium for the mast so things are on the move.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    I had a lot of fun using SailCut Cad. Free software package and SailCut4 is the one which is designed for 4 sided lug sails.

    http://www.sailcut.com/

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    I can't believe Dudley has only sailed it once. It'll be interesting to follow that build.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Apart from the other good advice here. Get a copy of the 'The Sailmaker's Apprentice', quite reasonable off Amazon. Everything you need to know about making your own sails.

    I am buying my cloth from KHP's reccomendation.

    You must, of course, post pictures. Otherwise it never happened
    A2

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Your question about mylar on joints: I assume you are talking about chamfered (AKA Payson) joints? Where one grinds down the edges between the joint and lays in layers of mat and poxy ? The plastic is to give an even surface that requires less sanding etc. to give a good finish. If that is the case, any plastic will do.
    Mylar is usually used for full size templates, as it is dimensional stable, unlike paper. Dudley usually gives any full size patterns in mylar. I have them for the bulkheads/frames on my Cape Henry.
    Anyway, rather than do the butt joints, read a bit on scarfe jointing. Not difficult with a simple jig and way tidier than butts. Less of that pricey poxy too.
    A2
    Last edited by Andrew2; 11-27-2016 at 01:00 PM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Yeah, I've been researching how to scarph joints with a hand router. Will make a jig to put them together. I just remember to allow the extra length on the lofting to accommodate the joints. I'll have a practice on some scrap ply.

    I'll also look for a copy of the sail making book.

    Thanks for the advice folks. Its so nice to have a friendly community to discuss things with.

    I

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    So things have moved on a little. The tubing for the mast has arrived and I've purchased a second hand goose neck and eye for the main halyard. The plan will be to leave the mast in two sections for stowing. Halyards will remain external to stop them clanking around inside. I'll tension the mainsail with a down-haul on the boom as the goose neck is on a slider. Struggling to upload pictures so will just put a link to my website for now.

    http://nicholascrabbe.wixsite.com/argie-15-build

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England



    The internal diameter of the mast is 55 mm. I have two choices for joining, either find someone with a lathe who could machine a plug as per how I believe the instructions are from the designer or I've found that you can buy 54mm stainless steel tubing for exhausts which should fit nicely inside and rivet onto on section to produce a removable splice.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England



    The goose neck, slider and eyelet for the halyard. I had this system on my 470 and it worked well. Avoids the need for complicated pulley systems at the masthead.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Woo hoo! I just ordered 8 sheets ordered from okoume plywood. Delivery ordered for Friday and the fun starts. Decided to avoid that cheap stuff and go for Lloyd's approved. Any advice on transferring the patterns from the plans?

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    I bought Dudley's full size plan sheet so I can't offer too much advice other than to keep your lines fair and make sure opposing planks (port and starboard) are identical. Others will be able to offer lots of help.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    It's usual to scarf and glue the plywood panels together into the needed size BEFORE doing the lofting/layout.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    If you take a look at the various threads for building an Argie 15 on the Wooden Boat forum and also check out some of the build threads and videos online you'll find that most people cut their panels before lofting/layout/joining.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Yeah. The plans show how to layout the pieces so you get the maximum efficiency per panel. This will mean scarphing after cutting out.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Or, as Dudley says in his building instructions, "lay the corresponding pieces on a flat surface with the joining edges correctly aligned and a sheet of plastic or waxed paper under the joint and weight them so as to maintain their positions. Join the two parts together with a single layer of fibreglass tape set in resin and allow to set. Carefully turn the panel over and apply a single layer of tape to the other side". Seems clear enough to me. Since the bottom and lower strakes are hidden, they could also have a butt plate added.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    I'd like to scarph them if I can. I think it would look neater.
    Last edited by Nikky; 01-04-2017 at 12:02 PM.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    So I've been practicing joints on some scrap ply. I tried a taped joint as per the instructions, a rebated taped joint and a couple of scarphed joints using a router and jig, a belt sander and a block plane.

    Lessons learned:
    1. The rebated taped joint didn't work. It looked ugly and you lose some of the strength in cutting through a ply layer.
    2. The taped joint would be fine. Plenty strong enough and the tape is nearly invisible.
    3. The scarphed joint is definitely stronger and was surprisingly easier to do with a hand plane than the various electric gadgets.
    4. Dont scratch your head when you've got epoxy on your gloves.....

    I'll upload some pictures later.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Morford View Post
    Congratulations on getting into your Argie with lots of research. With regard to fitting out, I don't know what WBP is but would recommend making sure that whatever you use is void free and has a good thickness in the outer plies. If you go too cheap the outer plies are paper thin and will cause you no end of trouble when you get to finishing (DAMHIK). Other than that don't rush, do it once and do it right. If you're not sure about any step just ask. You'll find lots of help here.
    Does he mean "waterproof boil" or WPB plywood? Meaning the laminates use waterproof glue that can withstand the boiling test.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Planning a new Argie 15 build in England

    Yeah. Thats what i meant but I've bought lloyds approved okoume ply now.

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