Concordia Yawl Valuation

[Larry James]

I am a newcomer to the forum, having limited my participation to lurking on the sidelines until now.

I have been very impressed by the knowledgeable and helpful folks who frequent this place and hope you all would be kind enough to offer some advice.

I am trying to learn how to go about getting a fair assessment of what a 1955 Concordia yawl is worth.

The broker passed on this much information indicating the boat does need quite a bit of attention--

*** BROKER'S NOTES ****
1. The deck canvas needs to be replaced, and there is possibly some soft wood under the canvas around the chainplates and along the
covering board.

2. Though frame and floor-timber work was done in the main-saloon area, it needs to be done forward and aft of the main cabin; i.e., in the head-and-hanging-locker compartment, as well as in the galley and engine areas. There is also some possibility that some the work that was done amidships might need to be redone or cleaned up.

3. The surveyor felt that the keel plank was soft amidships and possibly elsewhere.

4. Some planks should be replaced.

5. Cabin beams forward of the mast partner have been delaminated and should be repaired.

6. The rudderpost may need repair, as it has a patch around the prop aperture, but this has not been investigated thoroughly.

7. Deadwood is quite rough aft of the ballast keel (especially on the port side).

8. Interior needs paint and varnish to be brought up to good condition.

In order for you to have a complete survey, you would first have to make an offer on the boat, contingent on satisfactory survey, etc., to hold the boat during the survey process.

**** END BROKER'S NOTE****

The last bit about making an offer before a survey is my problem -- find out what a reasonable/fair price might be.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Larry James

[ 08-13-2003, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: Larry James ]

[cdragon]

what is the asking price? You'll see good ones listed around 100K-this one sounds like she needs alot of work-if you make an offer and have her surveyed and she does not "pass" survey, the deal is off, but I would not bother unless you were seriously interested in the project

[Donn]

The owners of this site will see your question. They are full of info about Concordias.

http://www.sailingwithsarah.com/

[Bob Cleek]

The broker's offer requirement, or more specificially, their deposit requirement, is standard procedure. As such debts attach to the vessel, no broker wants a boat liened for haul out and yard time, surveyor's fees, and whatever else is related to the cost of the survey, if a potential buyer walks away from a deal. Similarly, they don't want to be giving free boat test drives to people without a firm offer to purchase.

It seems from the broker's listing that a survey has been done on the boat. It also seems the surveyor didn't bother to go beyond a certain point in his investigation, finding major problems present. Judging from what he is disclosing, it is fair to expect that this boat is pretty far gone and would require a substantial amount of money to restore to any reasonable level of condition. The "keel plank soft" is a particular concern.

In order to get an accurate assessment of the actual cost of repairs, which are often an "all or nothing" proposition, (you aren't going to install new floors and frames on top of a rotten keel), you will have to pay a good wooden boat surveyor (make sure they know wooden boats!) and a reputable yard, to identify all the problems and provide you with a firm repair cost estimate. There is no way to tell with any accuracy what might be entailed. As the Concordia's are highly desireable and so often are sold from owner to owner, or through a limited number of brokerages that specialize in them, if this one looks like a "bargain," you can bet it isn't. Sorry.

[TimH]

Seems to me Dutch Wharf boat yard and marina has had a few Concordia Yawl restorations noted in their ads in WB over the years.

[Concordia..41]

[Donn]

Margo...don't be cruel.

[Concordia..41]

I'm sorry. You asked for helpful advice.

We have hull #27, also built in 1955. There were a total of 12 built that year. If the pictures on our website (over a year out of date) haven't scared you away, please feel free to e-mail us at boatwrks@aug.com and Dave will do his best to help you decide if this is something you want to do.

Regards -
Margo Geer

Is that better Donn ?

[ 08-12-2003, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Concordia..41 ]

[Scott Rosen]

As a general rule, it will be less expensive to buy a fully restored Concordia than to buy one in need of major restoration. That's because an owner who buys it for 60k and then puts a couple of hundred grand into restoring will never be able to sell it for 250k. I've seen good Concordias in the 125 to 150k range. Even if you are really good at boat restoration, it will cost you big to do the kind of work needed for this boat.

[Donn]

More clear, Margo. But it doesn't explain your affliction...which is why I posted Sarah's site.

[Jay Panetta]

Dear Larry,

Herewith, a few thoughts from the owner of Concordia #31 (Owl), also built 1955. First point: these boats are a joy to own and sail, will take good care of you in all conditions, and will get you there with remarkable speed in both light and heavy air (especially given the 1938 design). They are also easily singlehanded, an especially important point if you plan to sail with small children, or like to go sailing without having to arrange for crew. If you decide to acquire the boat you’re considering, you will join a community of owners who will be generous with advice; many have already undertaken the repairs you will be facing, and the knowledge base is deep. Yet you should be utterly realistic about the degree of work you are facing, based on the comments you’ve posted. Beyond the concerns you’ve already mentioned, you will also have to look to the following items if you seek to arrive at a fully found and reliable vessel:

- Keelbolts
- Engine
- Sails
- Electronics
- Deck
- Wooding and refinishing of spars

Each one of these items, should it need to be addressed, could and would set you back many thousands at minimum. Beyond these, consider the next list, which includes items of lesser cost. Not all will need to be addressed, but many upgrades will be either desirable or mandatory--and the total tab can run up with alarming speed:

- Prop and shaft
- Standing rigging, running rigging
- Mast step
- Head and holding tank
- Ground tackle
- Rudder (it may well need to be rebuilt after 48 years)
- Blasting/recoating of iron ballast
- Roller furling, if you wish it
- Interior paint and varnish
- Cabin sole
- Wiring and panel
- Self-tailing primary winches
- Modern cook stove
- Upholstery
- Engine gauge panel
- Tender
- Seacocks: rebuilt or replaced
- Upgrade to icebox
- Dodger and other canvas
- Batteries and charging system

Fortunately, the previous owners of our boat saw to the most expensive items from the lists above. In the 8 years we have had her, we have checked off the rest. Annual maintenance is above and beyond, of course.

So -- a quick calculus could be done. If you bought the boat, where would you want it to be after three years of ownership? Pricing in approximate fashion from the above lists, and adding annual maintenance obligations, what would it cost you to get there? And finally, would the sale price of the boat you're considering, PLUS cost of upgrades and maintenance, vastly exceed the price of an available boat in better condition? Likely so. Scott is quite right (as he almost always is) that already-accomplished restorations can usually be acquired far more cheaply than if you pay yourself.

[ 08-12-2003, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: Jay Panetta ]

[rbgarr]

The observation that a surveyor started to do a pre-purchase survey and brought it to a halt, letting the person who hired him know that the boat was in need of significant rebuilding, is probably correct. Good, knowledgeable surveyors who wish to build and maintain a reputation for integrity and fairness will do this, though it may cost them some money on the particular job and not make them popular with the seller or a broker. But the surveyor's position is one of fiduciary responsibility to the person who hired him.

I spent a full day going over a Concordia (in the water) of that period and found similar problems with the hull including many cracked frames, especially at the turn of the bilge. They were difficult to see because they were hidden by ceiling, and I had to use a flashlight and dentist's mirror to see them clearly. The repairs to the hull in the aft of the main cabin in the galley and engine area will be time-consuming because of all the joinery and equipment that needs to be cleared away first. The same can be said for the repairs forward of the main cabin around the mast step, mast partners and chainplates. The deadwood, horn timber and keel plank concerns mentioned would stop me from looking any farther because then you're talking about dropping the keel for repairs (potentially) and that's a really major time and effort commitment. I'm not into that much reconstruction.

As far as valuation is concerned, Dave and Margo Geer, who own SARAH (mentioned above) bought her at a sheriff's auction for an undisclosed but roundly guessable number. Read their description of the auction on their website, consider how much work they anticipated would be needed and compare it to what you have been told about the boat you are looking at. You don't give us an idea of what the asking price is but in one case I know of a fine wood boat got an offer of 40% of the asking price. At worst, the seller will say no, as could have happened in that case. and negotiations start anew. I was watching a particularly interesting lobsterboat listing that went from $85 to $60K before it was listed as sold (actual selling price unknown). The boat was in excellent shape and the owner was neither desperate to avoid yard bills nor cash poor.

The advice about getting a restored boat for less than the cost of restoring one yourself is worth considering, if sailing a Concordia is your goal. If restoring and bringing something back up to snuff is your pleasure, and in your budget (as accurately assessed above), then have at it. Concordia owner's everywhere will bless you for keeping one of the fleet alive and healthy. In either case, expect to spend money over time as described by the OWL's owner.

Good luck-

[ 08-13-2003, 12:19 AM: Message edited by: rbgarr ]

[Larry James]

Originally posted by Donn:
The owners of this site will see your question. They are full of info about Concordias.

http://www.sailingwithsarah.com/

Thanks.

I have been to the Sailing With Sarah website. In fact, my decades long interest in Concordias was sparked again because of it.

There is much to consider before deciding whether to plow ahead with this project.

Thanks for your help.

Larry

[Larry James]

Originally posted by Bob Cleek:
...In order to get an accurate assessment of the actual cost of repairs, which are often an "all or nothing" proposition, (you aren't going to install new floors and frames on top of a rotten keel), you will have to pay a good wooden boat surveyor (make sure they know wooden boats!) and a reputable yard, to identify all the problems and provide you with a firm repair cost estimate...

Thanks Bob.

This will be my fourth boat if I go ahead with this project so I am familiar with the survey routine. But this will be the first wooden boat -- if you don't count the row boat my step father built in the basement when I was 15 -- and it has been much harder for me to get a sense of the work that will be involved.

Regards,

Larry

[Larry James]

Originally posted by Concordia..41:
I'm sorry. You asked for helpful advice.

We have hull #27, also built in 1955. There were a total of 12 built that year. If the pictures on our website (over a year out of date) haven't scared you away, please feel free to e-mail us at boatwrks@aug.com and Dave will do his best to help you decide if this is something you want to do.

Regards -
Margo Geer

Is that better Donn ?

Thanks Margo.

I have visited your website and return frequently eager for the latest updates on Sarah.

You might say you are at least partially responsible for spreading the Concordia disease. <g>

But thanks for your offer. I really am undecided if I want to take on what looks like a major project. I do like "boat husbandry" but know I a don't have the skills to do much of what will be required to bring this boat back. So that means the work will have to be done professionally and that will be expensive.

Hope Sarah is progressing and that we might see an update soon on http://www.sailingwithsarah.com.

Larry

[Larry James]

Originally posted by Jay Panetta:
Dear Larry,

Herewith, a few thoughts from the owner of Concordia #31 (Owl), also built 1955.

Jay,

Your note is both sobering and inspiring.

The romantic in me is tempted to take on such a project if for no other reason than to resurrect one of these magnificent boats. The more elusive, rational, side of me says whoa, wait a minute, this looks like the proverbial hole in the water into which you pour money?

Can't say which side will win at this point.

Larry

[Art Read]

For what it's worth... Money's overvalued, Concordia's ain't and our time in this world is short...

[Larry James]

Originally posted by Art Read:
For what it's worth... Money's overvalued, Concordia's ain't and our time in this world is short...

Thanks for reminding me of that Art.

As the saying goes, "a thing of beauty is a joy forever."

Larry

[Art Read]

Well, now I feel obligated to ask how would you most enjoy, and ultimatly feel fullfilled by this vast expenditure of your time... Engaged in a "seemingly" NEVER ENDING rebuilding, restoration and aesthetic salvation of a potential "basket case" that will leave you broke, broken, dirty, tired, and finally, triumphantly elated upon completion, or searching and waiting for a "sister ship" in good condition that will only take half that effort to "keep up"?

[Larry James]

Originally posted by Art Read:
Well, now I feel obligated to ask how would you most enjoy, and ultimatly feel fullfilled with this expenditure of your time... Engaged in a seemingly NEVER ENDING rebuilding, restoration and aesthetic salvation of a potential "basket case" that will leave you broke, broken, dirty, tired, and triumphantly elated upon completion, or searching and waiting for a "sister ship" in good condition that will only take half that effort to "keep up"?

Well, since you put it that way....

Actually, neither course of action makes sense. I am currently living abroad and don't expect to return to the States for another year, at least. But in some screwy way I feel that taking on a project like restoring a Concordia would be a great way to spend my "Golden Years." The first few anyway.

Then again, just owning and taking care of an already restored boat could be as much of a commitment as I need to make.

Decisions. Decisions.

[Concordia..41]

If we've corresponded already, I apologize. I get a couple of inquiries a month and started loosing track some time back.

Scott Rosen is very much on point. There are usually 3-4 Concordias on the market in the $110-150k range. And even those can use a "new owner" thing or two – a new sail, maybe an upgrade in electronics, etc. Then there is the very real and very expensive care and maintenance required to preserve your investment.

Another option is to contact the Concordia Company directly. There are a more than a few Concordias that have fallen into disrepair over the years, and they are the experts. They have recently done a couple of rebuilds where the project boat in question was purchased and restored by a partnership. It's not for everyone certainly, but by uniting several individuals interested in restoring and owning a Concordia, the massive costs of the restoration were split between the parties. Granted you'd have say a ¼ interest, but paying ¼ of the cost of having 30+ floors replaced might be a lot more palatable.

Some questions if you're going to handle the project yourself:

1. Is this some lark or something you've always wanted to do? One of our best friends retired from the Oklahoma City police force and knew almost a decade before he retired that he wanted to buy a sailboat and go cruising. Although he had little sailing or repair experience, he bought a project boat in 1993 and he and his wife are now getting ready to make their third Bahamas passage. There were 18 years from the time he first made "the decision" until they finally left on their first trip. That's the dedication required.

2. Is your wife or significant other supportive? If not, you'll be finding one that is before long.

3. Do you have physical help – wife, brother, father, son? A major project like this would go much quicker and easier with a working partner.

4. What is your age and how long do you plan to own the boat? Looking at a 5-10 year project when you're in your 30's or 40's is a lot different than the same project for someone in their 60's. That's not to say someone older shouldn't take on a project. It's one of life's many ironies, because the folks in that age bracket often have the skills and have retired and have the time to devote to a project. I just know I have a tremendous amount of comfort and satisfaction knowing that even if we end up with six + years in the rebuild, God willing there will be a couple of decades to sail her, care for her, and enjoy her. Speaking personally, I want at least a two for one value. In other words, for every year spent working on her, I want at least two years in the future on the water being the envy of the bay.

5. Do you have a place to work on her? If you have a barn or storage area where you can keep the boat where she can be protected from further damage while you work on the project at your own pace (or hire the work done as you can afford), it would make the project a lot more affordable and practical.

Now in classic Forum style, no one has answered your question as to value. Without knowing any more details about the boat in question but speaking generally with regard to any 40' classic with a strong pedigree, i.e. Concordia, S&S, Hinckley, etc. but requiring a total rebuild, I'd say a current value would be between 20 and 40k. Toward the low end if the boat is a complete disaster and toward the higher end if the engine, sails, hardware and what not are intact and reusable. That's value and that's an intangible thing because you're basically paying for the pedigree and what she has the potential to be again.

Hope some of this helps.

- M

[Larry James]

Thanks for taking the time to prepare such a thoughtful reply.

The questions you pose certainly need to be answered if I am serious about pursuing a major restoration.

Before I posted my question here I was not certain what sort of condition a Concordia with a below $100k asking price would be like. The asking price for this boat (#35 MEMORY) is $35k. The replies I've received make it pretty clear that a lot of work, not to mention money, will be needed to make it right.

I have no experience in boat building or repair and would need to hire the work done, most of it anyway.

I do love sailing, of all kinds, cruising, racing or "simply messing about in boats."

Were I to follow through with this project then it would be for keeps.

I'm 57, retired (still working on contract though) and will soon have enough time once I wind up a couple of other projects.

Thanks again for your thoughts and continued good luck with your restoration.

Larry

[Concordia..41]

Larry
I don’t know where the boat is located but if it is in New England you may want to contact the site below for a survey of the vessel. You will probably get Paul Haley as I believe Giffy Full is retired but he may do one more Concordia. Giffy has surveyed most of the fleet and some more than once. Be prepared to pay some extra expense in having a wood boat surveyed as the surveyor will want the yard to pull fasteners, covering boards and other objects to gain access to equipment. Also a good survey takes quite a bit of time so it will cost more than a glass boat.

http://home.comcast.net/~captfull/

The surveyor will be able to set a fair market value and should be able to give you a relative price on repairs if the work is perform by a yard in his area or one that he has worked with in the past.

Also you can contact Concordia with your list of repairs and they would give you an estimate. (Site below.) If I could afford to and did not like to just work on Sarah I would have her on a truck to Concordia. They have completed ever repair that a Concordia ever needed and have the expertise. Check out what they did to Coriolis in a very short period of time. And if you ever go there they will show you around just like you were an old friend.

http://www.concordiaboats.com/

You will also want a copy of Elizabeth Meyer’s book “Concordia Yawls The Fist Fifty Years” but don’t buy the book until you decide to buy the boat, as it will influence your decision. Believe me when you see that book you will want a Concordia. (Site below)

http://www.jclass.com/

Good luck on what ever you decide to do.

Dave

[Larry James]

Originally posted by Concordia..41:
Larry
I don’t know where the boat is located but if it is in New England you may want to contact the site below for a survey of the vessel. You will probably get Paul Haley as I believe Giffy Full is retired but he may do one more Concordia....

Talk about great minds. I had already visited their website and was impressed with the credentials - Old Ironsides - is hard to top.

Thank you very much for sharing this information.

I am very grateful.

Larry

[Doug Wood]

As usual, lots of good advise on this thread and I wish you luck with your decision. Wish I was in a position to consider a Concordia. They're very special boats IMHO.

Paul Haley and Giffy Full are the best in the biz so if you go forward, I'd echo what Margo has said. BTW, Giffy has been retired for years but that doesn't seem to stop him from working <g>. He did my BP24 last year.

A couple Maine yards you might use to "shop quotes" would include Rumery's (www.rumerys.com) and Rockport Marine (www.rockportmarine.com). Both seem to have a fairly steady diet of Concordia restoration/maintenance work that they do.

Elizabeth Meyer's book - ANYONE with an appreciation of the Concordia's should get this book for their library. It's true though, if you're even remotely thinking about a Concordia, this book will no doubt push you over the edge.

[Larry James]

Originally posted by Doug Wood:
...Elizabeth Meyer's book - ANYONE with an appreciation of the Concordia's should get this book for their library. It's true though, if you're even remotely thinking about a Concordia, this book will no doubt push you over the edge...

Yoiks!

[Ed Harrow]

Larry, you can visit my website to get an idea of a project like this. Phoenix is not a Concordia, but she does have a good pedigree. The original asking price was 22K, I think.

Paul Haley's initial comment, "She's been ignored." The master of the understatement. The actual price, $1.01. I don't expect you'd get a Concordia for the cost of hauling her away. I can't say enough good things about Paul. You can have solid confidence in his work, and that is not something one can say about all these guys. I met one party at the S&S get togther at Mystic last year who bought a Gulfstream, sight unseen, on the strength of his surveyor's report. At that time they were in court, and the boat a work in progress.

I was wondering if the Concordia was in Israel, or if you were going to have the work done over there. That seemed really daunting.

People regret most, so I'm told, the things they didn't do, or didn't get to try.

[Scott Rosen]

Originally posted by Art Read:
For what it's worth... Money's overvalued, Concordia's ain't and our time in this world is short...

Art, that's a keeper.

Here's another plug for Paul Haley. He's one of the best, and I'm sure he knows Concordias inside out in his sleep. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he supervised the restoration of a few Concordias.

[Larry James]

Originally posted by Ed Harrow:
...I was wondering if the Concordia was in Israel, or if you were going to have the work done over there. That seemed really daunting.

People regret most, so I'm told, the things they didn't do, or didn't get to try.

Ed,

The boat is in Massachusettes, I believe.

I wouldn't entertain the idea of trying to do the work here. Just isn't reasonable. I doubt there are very many craftsman with the level of skill required to do the kind of job the boat demands.

Of course, I could be wrong. I've been wronger.

On the advice of Dave, who knows a thing or two about restoring Concordias, I have asked the people at Concordia to give me a best guess of what repairs outlined in the brief survey summary would cost.

I'll take it from there. Where we end up I really can't say at this point.

The good news is my wife, Sonja, likes the idea - at least to a point. And that is good, she is the one with her feet firmly on the ground.

Larry

[Scott Rosen]

I thought you were in Rhode Island! It would be a bit expensive to ship a Concordia from the US to Israel.

[Concordia..41]

Originally posted by Doug Wood:
...Elizabeth Meyer's book - ANYONE with an appreciation of the Concordia's should get this book for their library. It's true though, if you're even remotely thinking about a Concordia, this book will no doubt push you over the edge...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yoiks!

A bump on the thread and another note about the book. You won't find it on the J-Class website, but just e-mail them. Even better than the book itself, Elizabeth reserved the first 103 copies for the 103 Concordias in the fleet. If the prior owner purchased the book, it traditionally stays with the boat. One of the NW owners insists that he just wanted the 40th anniversary book, but ended up buying the boat that came with it.

Anyway, folks here are referring to the 50th anniversary book (published in 1988) - if the prior owners didn't purchase their copy of the book (ours didn't) you'll get the copy that corresponds with your boat #. I.e. Limited edition #35 of 2000. It is just one of hundreds of magical things about these boats.

And if you want us to be a bad influence, just say so:



Cheers!

[Jay Panetta]

Scott Rosen writes above: "Here's another plug for Paul Haley. He's one of the best, and I'm sure he knows Concordias inside out in his sleep. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he supervised the restoration of a few Concordias."

Bingo, Scott. Paul is keeping an eye on the rebuild of Safari at the present time (Magnolia, Massachusetts).

Just one more thought for Larry, hinted at but not quite addressed directly in the many useful posts above. Beyond all the other requirements for a restoration like the one you're considering(ample budget, serious skills, time, vision, dedication, patience), you need to have one further thing in focus, one that seems obvious but is sometimes insufficiently considered. You need to have a plan for using and enjoying the boat. Where will it will live, how far from your home will that be, who will keep an eye on it when you're not around, and most important of all, how often will you yourself be able to sail it? Many of us who frequent New England harbors are all too accustomed to seeing large and expensive boats that sit on their moorings week after week, month after month. The owners apparently possess means, but lack sufficient time or commitment. There should be a big payoff after a major restoration, but your life will need to be organized in a certain way for you to be able to enjoy it. Since you're an experienced owner of prior vessels, you probably have a good sense of how these things should work. And you're nearing an early retirement, also good. If you can use the boat 60 or more days a year, year after year, it will all make sense. If you can only manage to be out there for 10 or 12 days, you'll question whether the huge effort and investment were at all wise.

[Donn]

Whoa, Jay...very well put. A major consideration.

[Larry James]

I had originally planned to contact Paul Haley based on an internet search of surveyors in Mass. The ringing endorsements here are very reassuring.

Jay's comments about what it takes for a project like this are right on the money (ouch - must be Freudian choice of words).

I don't measure up well in all the categories mentioned - serious skills being the biggest but I hope not fatal, flaw.

What I do have in spades is passion.

I also don't think use of the boat will be a problem. It never was in the past, even when I had a very demanding and stressful job 40 miles from where I kept the boat I managed to get away for Thursday night and weekend races.

My "new" life, which I expect to start within the next year, includes moving into a home we have on a creek on the Chesapeake Bay. So getting to the boat won't be much of a concern and the boat would be under my own watchful eye.

Now it's just wait and see what the folks at Concordia have to say about what they would charge to make the repairs that are necessary. Then I'll have a little better feel for what the financial end of things looks like and be in a better position to make a decision.

Thanks to everyone for their input. It has been invaluable.

I'll keep you posted on where I go from here, if anyone is interested.

Larry

[George Roberts]

Larry ---

Just a comment on resale value.

The Wall Street Journal has adds for wooden boats from time to time. Last week there was an ad for a cold molded boat. I think it was a "W" boat, but I was not interested so I did not pay much attention.

The owner had spent $250k 5 years ago in repairs/maintance and some since. The asking price was $150k.

Regardless of the quality of the boat and its historical significance, don't plan on the boat as an investment.

[Donn]

Regardless of the quality of the boat and its historical significance, don't plan on the boat as an investment.

Pretty sweeping statement, George. I know a restoration yard in New England that paid $20K for a lobster yacht (of good vintage) this spring. They put another $20K in material and labor into the boat, and sold it in June for $75K.

[Donn]

Margo...that's a stunning photo. I'm a stinkpotter, but I saved it to my machine. Thanks.

[Keith G.]

I'll keep you posted on where I go from here, if anyone is interested.

You sure will keep us posted!! We will track you down (even in Israel) if you stop the saga now. Thanks much for the chance to share this decision with you. Especially for a guy like me who will probably never own a Concordia but sure enjoys owning one "vicariously". [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Doug Wood]

IMHO, owning, caring for and sailing a boat is an investment in quality of life, and frankly, I can't think of a better investment. Sheesh, if we were all obsessed with how the financial part of boat ownership would "pay out", very few of us would own boats, and what a joyless life that would be. Larry, I for one hope this works out for you.

[Larry James]

Fair enough.

For all the help, advice, sound judgement, reality checks, and the chance to dream, you can be sure I will keep you all posted.

And, if things work out so that I end up joining that elite group of Concordia owners, they'll be free boat rides for everyone!

Larry

Originally posted by Keith Graber:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> I'll keep you posted on where I go from here, if anyone is interested.

You sure will keep us posted!! We will track you down (even in Israel) if you stop the saga now. Thanks much for the chance to share this decision with you. Especially for a guy like me who will probably never own a Concordia but sure enjoys owning one "vicariously". [img]tongue.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]

[rbgarr]

Re the lobsterboat mentioned above: Professionals are often better at recognizing good deals, knowing the market, and how much to put into a boat in order to resell it profitably. It's their business and that's a business investment.

The person who lists their boat as having had '$250K in repairs and maintenance over the last five years' makes me wonder if he is confusing two different things.

For example, if you were to sell your house, would you add up the cost of all the maintenance items you've spent over the past five years (which allowed you to enjoy living in the house on a daily basis) such as fixing doorknobs, replacing lightbulbs, gas for the lawnmower, vacuum cleaner bags, repairs to the last two devices, etc., and include them in an asking price? I don't think so. I'd call those maintenance items. In the same way annual storage, commissioning, mooring, etc. is maintenance for a boat and allows the owner to enjoy it. The checks for boat maintenance costs are often MUCH bigger and SEEM like capital costs, but IMO, unless they are repairs that only pertain to safe operation or integrity of the vessel, they aren't maintenance items. Similarly, replacing the roof , installing new windows, fixing rotted sills or replumbing are capital costs for a house that can reasonably be included in calculating an asking price.

The general appearance and care given to a vessel or house are intangible selling points that will attract (or not!) a buyer in either case, depending on what they are looking for.

But it's just advertising anyway, so big deal...

[Larry James]

Originally posted by Ed Harrow:
Larry, you can visit my website to get an idea of a project like this. Phoenix is not a Concordia, but she does have a good pedigree. The original asking price was 22K, I think.

Boy, I'll say.

What a beautiful boat, even in its present state.

Nice website too. How's the project coming?

Larry

[Alan D. Hyde]

Larry, we've just had some dealings with Paul Haley, although they didn't result in his doing the survey we originally contemplated.

He dealt with us in a straightforward and fully professional manner, and struck us as a fine gentleman.

These kinds of statements cannot be made with respect to some of the other marine surveyors we've come across.

The restoration of a Concordia is a noble cause, if you're up to it.

I wish you well.

Alan

[David Tabor (sailordave)]

Found this on the 'Net... sigh.

[Larry James]

Beautiful.

Ever since I began this inquiry into the feasibility, for me, of restoring a Concordia, my mind keeps wandering back to those special moments I've had on boats.

Sometimes its painful to be without one.

Thanks for the pictures.

Larry

[imported_Steven Bauer]

Here's a shot I took of Arapahoe last summer when she passed through town:


Steven

[Concordia..41]

OK Larry this is your face:


This is your face on a Concordia:


Any questions?

BTW - That's Sovereign, #15 in Sailor Dave's photo

[ 08-17-2003, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Concordia..41 ]

[Larry James]

That picture reminds me.

Is Sarah going to be painted or kept bright?

Larry

[Larry James]

And another thing.

Is there some sort of conspiracy going on? I mean all these beautiful pictures. A lesser man would have already emptied his bank account by now. &lt;g&gt;

Larry

[Concordia..41]

Alas, Sarah will be painted. Bright was my first idea, but reality set in pretty quick. It's said they were all built out of planks matched from the same tree, so it was pretty tempting. But she'll be a Florida boat for as long as she's in our lives, and it's not even close to practical - I mean nothing about them is, but bright finishing her is completely off the chart.

At any rate, I've already treated myself to a varnished transom, and will have the toe rail, some trim, and an undetermined amount of the cockpit bright.

Cool Concordia fact #645: The underside of the mizzen/aft deck is varnished (or oiled or something) .

It's hard to explain, but we've been removing hardware from the aft deck in preparation for recaulking the deck, and it involves folding yourself in half while slithering through a cockpit lazarette, and then doing a 90 degree turn so you end up in the little area under the mizzen in Steven's picture. Well anyway the job wasn't near as bad as I shined the light and found the deck beams, shelf, and underside of the teak deck FREAKING VARNISHED

Even if you're not a sailor, just imagine doing the gerbil crawl to the most inaccessible part of your boat and finding it finished out to an incredible degree.