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Thread: Lightweight sail and oar boat

  1. #36
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Ballard
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    7,291

    Default Re: Lightweight sail and oar boat

    More than they'd actually probably charge you to build it.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  2. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    919

    Default Re: Lightweight sail and oar boat

    Do many jw, IO or selway fisher boats for instance, get built professionally?
    Hadn't occured to me they might be?
    James

  3. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Sweden,Scilly Isles, Siberia
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    7,281

    Default Re: Lightweight sail and oar boat

    Quote Originally Posted by kleppar View Post
    How many hours would it take a professional builder to make Phoenix III?
    According to the man himself, around 350 hours.

  4. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Sweden,Scilly Isles, Siberia
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    7,281

    Default Re: Lightweight sail and oar boat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesh View Post
    Do many jw, IO or selway fisher boats for instance, get built professionally?
    Hadn't occured to me they might be?
    James
    Some of Pauls steam launches have been pro built. Simmons and Broome built both a Welsford whaler and an Oughtred wee seal......and then ended trading. Too many man hours to make a healthy return compared to something popped from a mould.

  5. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Stavanger, Norway
    Posts
    90

    Default Re: Lightweight sail and oar boat

    Finally, I went for Phoenix III.

  6. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Stavanger, Norway
    Posts
    90

    Default Re: Lightweight sail and oar boat

    Plans purchased! I am planning to use Vendia as building material. I am even considering 5 mm instead of 6 mm, but have not quite made my mind up on the thickness. How much weight will I save going from 6 to 5 mm? Maybe not too much.

    Then the issue of rigs, and there are several options:
    1. balance lug alone
    2. standing lug and flying jib
    3. sprit rig with flying jib
    3. poor man´s Ljungström

    The latter is the idea of my friend and neighbour Arne Kverneland, and its simplicity is very attractive.

    Should I go for the lug rig - what is a good size? Is the 76 sq. ft. (7 m2) lugsail as per drawings large enough? I notice that the Goat Island Skiff, of similar size, has a lug sail area of 105 sq. ft. (9.75 m2).



  7. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Sweden,Scilly Isles, Siberia
    Posts
    7,281

    Default Re: Lightweight sail and oar boat

    The extra yard and boom length of a bigger sail can/might be an issue. The Family skiff lug is 96sqft, and i find that an adequate amount in light conditions, and is often reefed. You should be able to sail harder with the smaller sail before reefing. The family skiff is not a good rowing boat, so the extra sail area is handy in light conditions, given a good rowing hull, that might not be so important.
    I reduced bilge panels from 9mm to 6mm, but lightly glassed, the weight saving was minimal, but impact resistance has gone down. I do not advocate changing the designers specs, many a 6mm Mirror dinghy has had holes punched in the bottom, and i have heard many say the boat should have had a 9mm bottom from the start. If you intend to be very carefull how you use the boat, you might get away with 5mm but it does not allow any margin for the "oops" factor.

  8. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Stavanger, Norway
    Posts
    90

    Default Re: Lightweight sail and oar boat

    Yes, I am a bit concerned about impact resistance. I am not too heavy myself, but another guy who will use the boat weighs 30 kgs more than I do!

    What do you think about standing lug with flying jib vs. balance lug alone? Adding a jib adds complexity, but does it add to performance?

  9. #44
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    Jan 2010
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    Default Re: Lightweight sail and oar boat

    I have not used a flying jib with a standing lug, but i doubt the performance is as good as a well tensioned single balanced lug, due to lack of tension in the jibs luff. It could be argued that some light spectra/dyneema shrouds could very easily and quickly be used if a fore-stay was deemed more essential to performance, it would be interesting to see just how much (or little) the performance would be enhanced.
    Advantage of a jib is if stuck out in some real snotty stuff, its easier to deal with than a boom and yard swinging about. I carry a Mirror dinghy jib i can rig as a trysail for that purpose, though never needed it.

  10. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    northwestern Wisconsin
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    2,534

    Default Re: Lightweight sail and oar boat

    I haven't found the Phoenix III's 76 sq ft rig to be too small for my uses. In fact, for the first year my brother used a 60 sq ft standing lugsail and even that didn't seem too small. I suppose that's because rather than trying to ghost along in extremely light airs, I'm much more likely to take to the oars. For cruising I'd be in no hurry to add sail area, especially in the mainsail--I think the boom would likely be in the way of the helmsman, though I've never drawn a bigger rig to check.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    Jagular Goes Everywhere: (mis)Adventures in a $300 Sailboat. Book release November 2014.

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