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Thread: Southern Cross

  1. #351
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    Emerald Coast, FL
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    375

    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Our aviation survival vest also had a flashlight/strobe combo and small bottle of water. Also a radio with marker beacon, nowadays GPS. Everything was tied in with a lanyard, aka dummy cord and some of the items had velcro so they could be stuck to a velcro patch on the outside of the vest or the helmet. Helmets were covered in reflective tape. I flew a lot of SAR and a flashlight or strobe can be seen for a long time and far away, esp when we were using night vision goggles.

  2. #352
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    Dec 2003
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    Pohnpei, Micronesia and Michigan, USA
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    755

    Default Re: Southern Cross

    I normally have a strobe but mine died just after I departed Punta Arenas as did my large waterproof flashlight (not part of my vest)
    Quote Originally Posted by signalcharlie View Post
    Our aviation survival vest also had a flashlight/strobe combo and small bottle of water. Also a radio with marker beacon, nowadays GPS. Everything was tied in with a lanyard, aka dummy cord and some of the items had velcro so they could be stuck to a velcro patch on the outside of the vest or the helmet. Helmets were covered in reflective tape. I flew a lot of SAR and a flashlight or strobe can be seen for a long time and far away, esp when we were using night vision goggles.

  3. #353
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    [IMG][/IMG]

  4. #354
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Rice View Post
    [IMG][/IMG]
    Good memories at the Nao Victoria Museo, from where that pic was taken, if you turned to your left there was a 65 ft schooner up on the hard, then the replica James Caird, turn further around and there stood the full sized replica of Magellans ship, and behind her the full sized Beagle replica. Behind that the tiny, ramshackle little shed where we built that mizzen mast.

    Look into the cockpit of Southern Cross, with the tent secure, it is an amazingly comfortable little space, room to sit, to lie down, to cook, read and sleep, its a very secure feeling in there.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  5. #355
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    Northern NSW Australia
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Yes John, the coziness of that space is noted !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  6. #356
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    Mar 2011
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    Gold Coast Australia
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Its always enjoyably catching up with your latest pictures news and exploits Howard.
    I am curious as to your opinion as to wether your vessel would have capsized without the standing rig in those cyclonic conditions.

  7. #357
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Tom
    I am not sure. What I do know is the capsize to turtle was instantaneous meaning there was no time, no slow roll, no moment to fight it. I believe as the capsize happened and more hull was exposed to the broadside Tromba hit the faster the capsize went. Thats what it seemed like. It all happened so fast, hard to know. I have been contacted by a University of Washington professor who is linking me with a cyclonic expert at the U who is keenly interested in my experience and film images. I did watch one Tromba form from nothing about fifty feet in front of my boat, it was amazing to watch.

    Quote Originally Posted by auscruisertom View Post
    Its always enjoyably catching up with your latest pictures news and exploits Howard.
    I am curious as to your opinion as to wether your vessel would have capsized without the standing rig in those cyclonic conditions.
    Last edited by Howard Rice; 04-15-2017 at 04:25 PM.

  8. #358
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    133

    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Hi Howard ,
    "Cyclonic" to me implies a twister / tornado / funnel effect, and, from the top of a headland i have observed a number form and move through a fleet of racing dinghies. Two or three were hit and quickly flattened. One had its mast snapped.
    From the same small cliff head I've seen the effect of "blobs " of air "squish " out in a fan or paw shape as they hit the water. The gusty wind was offshore.
    Would a Tromba be like one of those effects - or some combination - or sometbing different?
    Interested,
    Frank

  9. #359
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Frank
    Here is a photo close to the 30 or 40 of these I witnessed, there were more for sure. What I experienced at Isla Georgiana were cyclones without the upper cloud funnel piece as in this photo. If you look above the land horizon line about half way up to the top funnel then from there down is what I experienced.
    They formed on the water and spun up quickly, speeding across the water and dissipating in 10-20 seconds. The Trombas I witnessed and were hit by were something like 100 or more feet across the bottom and maybe 100 to 200 feet high. Each emitted a extremely high pitched screaming sound. They sucked water up as they raced across the water leaving a mist trail behind.
    [IMG][/IMG]
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank! View Post
    Hi Howard ,
    "Cyclonic" to me implies a twister / tornado / funnel effect, and, from the top of a headland i have observed a number form and move through a fleet of racing dinghies. Two or three were hit and quickly flattened. One had its mast snapped.
    From the same small cliff head I've seen the effect of "blobs " of air "squish " out in a fan or paw shape as they hit the water. The gusty wind was offshore.
    Would a Tromba be like one of those effects - or some combination - or sometbing different?
    Interested,
    Frank
    Last edited by Howard Rice; 04-15-2017 at 04:24 PM.

  10. #360
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    Jan 2007
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    North Shore, Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Yes John, the coziness of that space is noted !
    the question you need to ask your self Peter is... which cabin is cozier???


  11. #361
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Wrong thread???

  12. #362
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by gilberj View Post
    Wrong thread???
    I may have misread between the lines but... it sounded like Peter was considering the finer points of a Gaff Yawl rigged Scamper and weighing it against the longer build time and significantly greater cost and limited gunkholing abilitys of a deep draught cutter.

  13. #363
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    Sep 2002
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    Hamilton New Zealand
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    I think that a thread based on the balance between a longer more costly build, the boat having more space on board, and a smaller less costly, quicker build which enables the builder to get out there sailing might be a fun discussion. SCAMP, is a bigger build than most 12 footers, and Southern Cross with her kevlar hull liner and all the special features even more than other SCAMPs but she's still a much quicker build than that lovely little ship of Peters, the question it raises, is, " Are you building a boat for the fun of building a boat, or are you building to go sailing in a boat that you've created>".

    I'll go and start the new thread now.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  14. #364
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Daniel, I was comparing to my Selway Fisher JIM, not Kathleen Gee.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  15. #365
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Rice View Post
    Tom
    I am not sure. What I do know is the capsize to turtle was instantaneous meaning there was no time, no slow roll, no moment to fight it. I believe as the capsize happened and more hull was exposed to the broadside Tromba hit the faster the capsize went. Thats what it seemed like. It all happened so fast, hard to know. I have been contacted by a University of Washington professor who is linking me with a cyclonic expert at the U who is keenly interested in my experience and film images. I did watch one Tromba form from nothing about fifty feet in front of my boat, it was amazing to watch.
    From experience a knockdown or capsize is genarily caused by a boat being flattened by a breaking or rogue wave ,as in my case on board a 32 footer years ago ,fast sailing and a broach was more than likely the starting point.
    On a dinghy or a small boat with limited ballast such as the scamp being hit beam on by such a huge wind pressure would undoubtedly result in a knockdown .
    I am curious wether the resulting roll over was caused by a combination of the initial momentum combined with ballast moving and then the lee gunwale either tripping or being driven into a wave trough?

    Also I would like to point out my initial question of wether a scamp without the rig would have resulted in a similar problem was purely hypothetical.
    The logistics of dropping and securing such compex small rig on a tiny platform would have been extremely difficult, not to mention the added danger of beng caught up in loose rigging given similar outcomes.

  16. #366
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    Jan 2000
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    Cushing, Maine
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    3,076

    Default Re: Southern Cross

    I've been in two dinghy racing situations with violent thunderstorms. One of them had a 100 boats or so. As I recall Lightnings were the largest. Some people saw it coming and were capsized even with their sails down. The wind was strong enough to turtle boats just from the pressure on the capsized hulls. Second case was similar in internatonal canoes where the wind pressure on the sliding seat after the boat capsized was enough to turtle the boats even against the drag of the sails. Both were quite a mess and mild compared to John's; in neither case was there enough fetch and duration for seas to present a problem. One of the advantages of a traditional rig in sea boats that were set up to raise and lower masts fast like whaleboats is that you could drop the mast in an instant. I've done so in my tittle ducker, just going forward which was dicey, grabbing the whole rig (unstayed) and throwing it overboard, but never in the violence that John experienced.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Vernon Langille, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity and a quiver of unamed 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  17. #367
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    Port Stephens
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Rice View Post
    Frank
    Here is a photo close to the 30 or 40 of these I witnessed, there were more for sure. What I experienced at Isla Georgiana were cyclones without the upper cloud funnel piece as in this photo. If you look above the land horizon line about half way up to the top funnel then from there down is what I experienced.
    They formed on the water and spun up quickly, speeding across the water and dissipating in 10-20 seconds. The Trombas I witnessed and were hit by were something like 100 or more feet across the bottom and maybe 100 to 200 feet high. Each emitted a extremely high pitched screaming sound. They sucked water up as they raced across the water leaving a mist trail behind.
    [IMG][/IMG]
    It looks a lot like a water spout - as we called them. When a kid, we lived in Wollongong, south of Sydney, with a view of the sea (sniff). We used to see water spouts from time to time. I've heard they can do a lot of damage to a yacht. I've never seen one while I've been sailing.

    Rick

  18. #368
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    133

    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Thank you Howard - that was quite graphic and frightening. The high pitched screamimg particularly so.
    Mate, I'm glad you got through it all.

    Frank

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