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Thread: Designs for old codgers

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Andrew Wolstenholme NA has line of wheelchair motorboats. Currently being purchased by sailing clubs and Sailability. Called Wheelyboats. These are aluminium and grp but I can't see the concept not being quite suited to plywood construction, especially looking at how quick Bolger boxes and even the new powerboats from Bowdidge can go together. He could draw one up for this type of club boat motor boat affair.






    https://wolstenholmedesign.wordpress...y-boat-mk-iii/

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    So, just making a point of how fit I could be. Thanks. My best pal is still windsurfing, reitired to Devon, for great surfing, winsurfing. I got the short straw. Brain tumour, awake cranial surgery, 6 weeks radio and chemo to leave me as weak as a kitten. Three months recovery and finally feeling a little stronger. Even some optimism to start a thread like this. Tomorrow afternoon I see my oncologist to see if my MRI scan shows no growth or new tumour growth.

    This thread is for those of us making the best fist of it, not giving in. Please have a thought, we don't need someone coming along telling us how fit we could have been. We are looking at designs which can work when weaked by health issues, less able struggling with an arm that hardly works, hands that are too arthritic to hang onto a mainsheet. All these issues are solvable, and here we can enjoy exploring those solutions.

    Brian
    No, not making any such point. Neither did John, who raised the topic of someone who was sailing Lasers at 86. You didn't snitch at him or a Tink, why snitch at me? If you have some issue with me, which appears to be the case, please just put me on ignore.

    I thought it was interesting that there are some surprising forms of sailing that don't make you duck under low booms, don't make you hang on to a 9mm or 6mm line but allow you to hang onto something much thicker and suited to arthritic hands, and at which you can still do well even when older and less fit. It is interesting to see how many people who are ageing are still sailing by taking the route to very light and simple gear (boards, Lasers, Hobie sailing kayaks) that gets around the issues of high trolleying weight, launching width and can be sailed (and learned) long after your fitted days have passed.

    EDIT - I'll put you on ignore so I don't annoy you by responding to anything you post.
    Last edited by Chris249; 11-07-2016 at 04:12 AM.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Hi Brian,

    I just want to express how much I really enjoy the enthusiasm you bring to this forum and the respect you show in your measured responses to some of the more shall we say unthinking comments that are posted. Keep posting, your contributions are much appreciated.

    Chris,

    From one Aussie to another FFS pull your head in mate.......

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Thread drift, sorry folks.......

    To return to normal programming, I think this topic is worth serious consideration, as I imagine the demographic on this forum probably approaches the salt and pepper years and I for one want to enjoy the water for as long as I am able. I'm sure the collective experience here could put forward a few really good ideas, so lets hear them............please.
    Last edited by Adrian Valley; 11-07-2016 at 04:47 AM.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Tink, could you def explore the oldie opi concept.

    Water ballast might work well. Light to move, let tanks fill when launched.

    very simple S&T quick build hull shape.

    rig uses roll up Hobie style, Tiny Tri. Cheap alloy spars.

    12 long sounds about right

    sail controls and steering if possible like the Seaclipper 10. Even a tiny winch for the mainsheet.

    Not much to ask.!

    Brian

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Another thought here. Our local sailing club has embraced a disability sailing programme over the last few years and has been the recipient of various grants, which aim to improve accessibility to all its facilities. The club now has specific boats, a floating jetty/pontoon and a hoist to assist people in wheelchairs into boats.
    Don't be fooled though, these upgrades have made things easier for all sailors, particularly the floating jetty.....

    Any mileage for this in the UK?

  7. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Valley View Post
    Another thought here. Our local sailing club has embraced a disability sailing programme over the last few years and has been the recipient of various grants, which aim to improve accessibility to all its facilities. The club now has specific boats, a floating jetty/pontoon and a hoist to assist people in wheelchairs into boats.
    Don't be fooled though, these upgrades have made things easier for all sailors, particularly the floating jetty.....

    Any mileage for this in the UK?

    My club up in North Yorkshire is well supported by sailability and has all of the above, they sail challenger trimarans and the access dinghy which has a ballasted keel.





    These are great boats but require third party support. In my mind there should be something between the current dinghies and the specialist sailability boats. Something that can used completely independently.

    Tink






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  8. #43
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Interesting topic. Im wondering what will suit someone who is no longer able to climb aboard from a capsize. Given that a heavily ballasted keel will cause mobilty/launch issues. Maybe a folding out-rigger tri is the best compromise? I did say that i would build a NED when my family skiff becomes too much of a handfull, but i look forward to seeing the stabilty of the "13" thats currently in build, but it might be a bit burdsome on a trolly. Anyone using one of those electric drive dolly wheels to pull boats around?

  9. #44
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    Access dinghy is made by Hansa, (http://hansasailing.com) they have a range of boats with a 20kg weighted board.


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  10. #45
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Never quite understood why the electric dolly wheels are not used. We even have a company manufacturing them only 5 miles away.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    Andrew Wolstenholme NA has line of wheelchair motorboats. Currently being purchased by sailing clubs and Sailability. Called Wheelyboats. These are aluminium and grp but I can't see the concept not being quite suited to plywood construction, especially looking at how quick Bolger boxes and even the new powerboats from Bowdidge can go together. He could draw one up for this type of club boat motor boat affair.






    https://wolstenholmedesign.wordpress...y-boat-mk-iii/
    Looks perfect for Hurst Castle Sailing Club. There must have been 50% of the members at their morning get together having current cancer treatment. The weakness induced means even an old codger boat is too much at that time.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    We have the Sailability programme here in Oz as well, good boats for their intended client base, but as you point out, they need 3rd party support and having sailed an access dinghy I can attest to the heft of the weighted dagger board, I nearly gave myself a hernia raising one in shallow water.

    As you observe, light stable boats are probably the way to go, assisted by improved accessibility i.e. finding ways to ease the set up, launch and retrieve.

    The electric drive dolly wheels are great for moving caravans, but you might need a fat wheeled version for a slippery boat ramp? That said I've seen a bloke launch his boat using a small ride on lawn mower.......

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    Access dinghy is made by Hansa, (http://hansasailing.com) they have a range of boats with a 20kg weighted board.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Some interesting looking boats on the website, but i do not know anyone who is going to "add to basket" given the short descriptions, not even any information on boats weight or beam, and i did not find any sub menus for that information.

    Realistically Brian, are you likely to go sailing in winds that might cause a capsize in the sheltered upper reaches of the river?

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    No. The rollup around the mast style rig, is important because it ensures that it is always easy to reduce the amount sailarea. Having too much saili area up would be frightening when coping with restricted physical ability.

    Brian.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    The Wheelyboats are made in Cornwall by a company that make marine aluminium landing craft. It would work very well at Keyhaven. It looks like about half of the aluminium mk3 20k boat cost is met by Trust, and about 12k is met by the sailing club or organisation. I'll donate a Honda 25 4 stroke PTT if they get funds together for one.

    http://www.joshuapreston.co.uk/workboats/wheely-boat/

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Agreed, that would make sense. I did think about the pudgy dinghy, that might be a little too sedate under sail though? I know i will be having leg issues down the line, that will mean a comfortable seating position, and i think the 'seat facing forward' might be the way to go rather than having to swap sides each tack. Foot pedal steering or a vertical control stick, possibly both so you can remain in complete control while filming and downloading your progress through the marshes in 'real-time' with your i-pad.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Just to open another line of enquiry. Recently many oldies at Keyhaven have taken to using SOT's. There were 17 boats out at one tIme. So, to some extent they are voting with feet.

    If someone with two strong arms they must be super for having fun around the marshes.

    CLC have plans for a ply version. http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/k...kayak-kit.html




    If weakness is in the arm, as it is with stroke weakness, the hobie style Mirage Drive kayaks are perfect. Finding a wooden version is diffIcult but Lunada have designed the perfect old codgers boat but cannot get hold of Chris Ostlind, at Lunada now. Can anyone help?

    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 11-07-2016 at 07:27 AM.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Chris Ostlind is on FaceBook.

    https://www.facebook.com/chris.ostlind?fref=ts

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Reminds me a bit of the CLC Expedition sailing canoe.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Valley View Post
    Reminds me a bit of the CLC Expedition sailing canoe.
    Absoluely, my perfect mirage drive sailing canoe comes along just too late for me to be able to build and sail one. oh well.

    Brian

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    You think it would be too tippy, even with fixed outriggers?

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Kind offer re the outboard Edward.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Valley View Post
    You think it would be too tippy, even with fixed outriggers?
    No, the small outriggers work superbly. Just my physical abilities are too much reduced now to cope just generally.

    The CLC Exp Canoe is a wonderful opportunity to build and enjoy all the fantatic canoe sailing we have here in the UK with in our Solway Dory Shearwaters.

    Brian
    .

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Thanks for the mention of my boats. I do think my Melonseed is more appropriate in this context than Annabelle. She's more stable, and far easier to self-rescue. But, I don't think either of them - or most any other lightweight monohull dinghy -are very suitable for the average "old codger." Light dinghies rely on body weight for stability, in large part, and sometimes one must move very quickly indeed.

    I agree with a lot of the points made already, and agree that perhaps the best choice (for an easy to hand-launch boat) is a lightweight multi-hull. I've sailed a Seaclipper 10 - complete with rear view mirror (and dodger) - and it, and others like it, fill a lot of the requirements. I've been thinking up my own SOF version . . . .

    Sailing canoes where one sits, or even reclines, on the bottom and simply scoots from side to side are another option, though necessarily limited in performance. Simple outriggers could be added, as needed or desired.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Thanks Dave, that's a valuable contrbution. Do you think your possible SOF version of Seaclipper might include folding amas, the non-folding means I cannot store it in my dinghy space. NOt really up to assembling ever time to use it.

    Brian

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by Binnacle Bat View Post
    She looks close to perfect.

    As I slide into codgerdom I feel that several things are important.

    Ease of launch and retrieval, assuming you don't have a dock suitable to tie up a H 12 1/2.

    Comfortable seating, with options for changing position.

    Stable enough to sail well without hiking out, and with little chance of capsize.

    Also capable of self rescue, should the capsize happen.

    Small enough to row or paddle if the wind dies.

    Some of us would have trouble even getting Annabelle up on a car roof single handed.



    Each of us gets old in different ways, and finds different things hard. My knees are tender, so I want a decent seat or three. I'm quite deaf, but that doesn't affect boat design much.

    Some of us have arthritis, and can't even hold a sheet.

    Some of us have balance problems.

    Age is just a series of barriers thrown at us in no particular order, so there is no one perfect solution.

    Allan

    These are the exact things that I find important in my late 60's.

    Years ago I gave up my E-scow when it got too athletic and downsized to a 16' MC scow (cat rig for single handed sailing) that has served me well. Now sitting on the deck and hiking out is getting tiresome although the size of the boat seems about right. One thing that I didn't foresee is that the scow design doesn't like rough/choppy water and with retirement I am free to travel and sail other places less suitable to the scow hull design. Rattling my teeth and green water over the deck has brought me to the reality that I need a pointy bow and real seats. Another problem for me is that I have a triple level fusion in my neck which makes looking aloft at the sail is difficult and painful so a low rig and easy to erect mast is essential. It also eliminates the trimarans mentioned already as I can't turn my head enough to look around when restricted to a fixed forward looking position.

    I currently have a Rhodes 18 sitting in the backyard mid restoration that might work if I cut down the mast and convert from a keel step to deck step w/ tabernacle. Real seats, easy launch with 8" draft (CB version) and good stability make it a contender but a sloop rig is a little more difficult to sail single hand.

  27. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Some interesting looking boats on the website, but i do not know anyone who is going to "add to basket" given the short descriptions, not even any information on boats weight or beam, and i did not find any sub menus for that information.

    Realistically Brian, are you likely to go sailing in winds that might cause a capsize in the sheltered upper reaches of the river?


    Lots of information, on the left there is a tab boats and then tabs for the different boats


    Tink


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  28. #63
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Thanks Tink......my surfing skills are not inter web based......

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Managed to contact Chris Ostlnd about the Nagere design. The 21 two man version is closest to being made available since the CNC files to close to being availabe.





    The outriggers will give a much more secure feeling for the old codgers. Two person also more safe. 21' a bit long but car toppable and in thin ply should be light enough.

    The Mirage Drives are very expensive here in the UK. I was quoted 700 for the pedals, what sort of price are they in the US?

    Brian

    Brian

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Yeah...thats good news. Can i mount my 2.5hp zuki 4 stroke on the outrigger mount where its nicely at hand?

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Actually, that would be fun! We have a nice little honda. With 21' with such a narrow hull, it would be very efficient. Wonder what speed it could achieve.

    Should I ask?

    Brian

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Actually, that would be fun! We have a nice little honda. With 21' with such a narrow hull, it would be very efficient. Wonder what speed it could achieve.

    Should I ask?

    Brian
    Might need a corser pitch prop? Something long and slim is a bit different to the average dinghy the Honda is aimed at.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    The Mirage Drives are very expensive here in the UK. I was quoted 700 for the pedals, what sort of price are they in the US?
    Brian
    I feel off the chair when I looked up the price, clearly they have spent a lot of R&D $ and produced a great product but that is a very high price. Maybe another project would be to design a home made version.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    I feel off the chair when I looked up the price, clearly they have spent a lot of R&D $ and produced a great product but that is a very high price. Maybe another project would be to design a home made version.
    Something like this http://dadsboats.com/




    Philip Thiel has a design
    http://www.mission-base.com/sea-land...am_layout.html





    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 11-07-2016 at 02:59 PM.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Herons are popular in my club amongst the older generation. Definitely a sit in rather than sit on boat.
    The problem if they aren't moored then they are a heavy beast to get down to the waters edge. But many hands make light work!

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