Designs for old codgers

[upchurchmr]

Wtarzia,

Where did you find the reports for the B&B boat and sail?
I'm interested in knowing about the rig.

[wtarzia]

Where did you find the reports for the B&B boat and sail?
I'm interested in knowing about the rig.

--- I followed Alan Stewart's build-blog (Blogspot.com) and his progress during and videos of the 1000 mile Ultimate Florida Challenge, and I talked to him at The Wooden Boat Show. -- Wade

[wtarzia]

For downsized codgers with no storage space, I think the Spindrift nesting 10' dinghy would just fit into my hatchback with rear seats flat. And I could leave it in there all the time if the mast and boom came in sections like all my inflatable sailkits. However I don't think they are sectioned, and the B & B site warns about need for double bailing a sectioned hull.

--- Love these break-down boats, they are so versatile and say "yes" when other things say "no." (first boat I ever built was a break-down proa that I had to build and store in an apartment bedroom). I do believe you can get a sectioned mast as a special order (I talked this over once with B&B but did not act on it). Alan Stewart used one on his outrigger sailing canoe discussed in this thread. I suggest contacting B&B. -- Wade

PS -- I once asked Dwyer Aluminum Mast about a sectioned mast; they did not have one on their web-site, yet a guy I spoke to suggested they either had them or could make them up for some standard dinghy design that used them (again, do not know why they did not say this on their web-site). Might be worth a call if B&B does not work out somewhy.

[wtarzia]

How does the second reef work on that rig, do you just partly unzip the sail? ...

--- I believe so. I have not played with mine yet, my new outrigger being far from done and my current one having shroud/stay hardware on the mast. -- Wade

[tink]

Meade has finished the EC, not you average old codger but still a great achievement, he has finished ahead of a lot of Hobie adventures and tandems. This stirling effort does go a long way to validate the concept of a single aka and small amas. IMHO this makes for a good old codger concept, with smaller lighter parts than a full blown trimaran.

At 8.40 onwards some great footage of Meade, https://youtu.be/LIEf0BENaeo
the B&B channel has test sails of their boat RoG

[b_tampa]

If you've aged well, you've developed a bit of taste and appreciation for finer things along the way. Given the choice between sailing a hideous tub such as some suggested here - and being waterboarded - I'd say bring on the towel and the bucket.

[Adrian Valley]

Function over form in some cases mate, better to be able to keep sailing than look at something you can't sail any more.....

[Sailor]

Just found a new book in the library here. Saw it on Monday and checked it out. I'm about 150 pages into it now. It's called Sailing into Retirement; 7 ways to retire on a boat at 50 with 10 steps that will keep you there until 80. I'm about to turn 40 so don't really consider myself an "old codger" quite yet however the things he mentions make sense to ensure a boat is "old codger" proof as much as possible to make it as easy as possible to live aboard well into old age. He's in his mid 70s at this point and still living aboard a world cruising boat. Author is Jim Trefethen who also wrote The Cruising Life. I'm enjoying it and seeing many things to incorporate into my future build so it's ready for me as an old codger once she's finally built.

[tink]

More Meades Boat

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...NUOWhyMnpFa3dn

[tink]

If you've aged well, you've developed a bit of taste and appreciation for finer things along the way. Given the choice between sailing a hideous tub such as some suggested here - and being waterboarded - I'd say bring on the towel and the bucket.

I would suggest you are either no where near you twilight years or have never properly sailed before, you are missing the whole point of this thread.

[wtarzia]

I would suggest you are either no where near you twilight years or have never properly sailed before, you are missing the whole point of this thread.

--- He seems to be new to WBF, so has not yet had a chance to age here. There is still time. :-) -- Wade

[wtarzia]

More Meades Boat

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...NUOWhyMnpFa3dn

--- What an interesting way for attaching and tensioning the forestay-shrouds. But why does what appears to be his leeboard have what appears to be rudder-like pivot engineering? -- Wade

[keyhavenpotterer]

this bit?

[tink]

I think it is just a long handle on the very long leeboard, it would be lovely to see more with explanation, there is a lot going on in the craft. This is an earlier version. Like the mainsheet cleat, the mast spanner which appears to have the vang control on it. It also appears that the pitch of the ama can be controlled.



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[rudderless]

Having said all that, my father is certainly an "old Codger" as he is still dinghy sailing at 92. he now has a Walker Bay 10 with inflatable tubes. That is because he can no longer learn back, he would fall over. And he wanted a light enough boat so he could pull it up the beach (Swanage) without help. Seems to still be working for him, he sailed it 21 times last year.

There is a Russian 15 ft sailing RIB that furthermore folds into thirds once you deflate the tubes: Winboat 460 rf. I just had a panic realizing that one for sale on Amazon could be a lot cheaper before Amazon starts collecting sales tax in a few days. But the collapsed dimensions are inches too big for my non-SUV. It is expensive, heavy, and maybe tippy until the tubes get wet (often leans to windward) but it could give a bigger boat experience for a codger with no storage.

[wtarzia]

I think it is just a long handle on the very long leeboard, it would be lovely to see more with explanation, there is a lot going on in the craft. This is an earlier version. Like the mainsheet cleat, the mast spanner which appears to have the vang control on it. It also appears that the pitch of the ama can be controlled. ...

--- Yes, but there was a different photo of something I saw, but now I've lost it.

I was talking to someone last night who knows more about Gougeon during this EC. Turns out it is even more amazing that this "old codger" finished the EC. A weird incident occurred and he fell out of the boat as the boat shifted at anchor. To get back aboard he gripped his chair and it popped out and floated away. He got back aboard, upped anchor in the night and searched for his chair, but lost it in the current. This was a big blow because the well designed chair is very important to his sailing-endurance ergonomic -- in this new version of the canoe, the chair also reverses and he can sleep with his head out of the wind under that hard dodger (you have seen the cool things he has used that dodger for -- storage pockets and compass, etc. up under its roof -- and now it is even cooler). He ended up using the dodger as a kind of seat back rest for the remainder of the event. What a sailor! -- Wade

[keyhavenpotterer]

Meade for president of OCS

how go we some how have plans drawn for his latest boat

the ultimate OCS design

[wtarzia]

In

--- In the first photo, what is that lever arm thingie sticking up from the base of the mast? A complicated vang? -- Wade

[Woxbox]

I think it's just a quick way to rotate the mast to the desired angle.

[Matt young]

That makes sense Dave, while tacking for instance do you think?

What do you guys think the twin centerboards are for? Micro adjusting the CLR?
If I am reading this picture correctly.

[tink]

That makes sense Dave, while tacking for instance do you think?

What do you guys think the twin centerboards are for? Micro adjusting the CLR?
If I am reading this picture correctly.

I'm thinking some sort of custom anchor

[John Meachen]

I suspect assymetry and maybe a need to raise one and lower the other when tacking.

[Woxbox]

But he's got a leeboard. I like the anchor idea.

[tink]

I suspect assymetry and maybe a need to raise one and lower the other when tacking.

If you look closely at the 'handles' the both have T shaped ends point the same way so boards seam unlikely IMHO

[tink]

This is from 2014, think I am a bit obsessed with this boat, the format ticks a lot of boxes for me, sorry if you have seen it before.

https://youtu.be/XN9R_ee1vEk

[keyhavenpotterer]

tink,

how about writing to Meade?

could say 12 people join to pay for set of drawings?

[tink]

I am more interested in the an explanation and critique of the design rather than building a copy. At some point I will add outriggers or replace my 12' x 30" but that as a long way off and will depend on where I end up in my twilight years. Doing some capsize tests tomorrow, have a combo trolley and righting float I want to test.




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[tink]

2017: Keith Musto, founder of industry leading sailing brand Musto, has revealed an astonishing return to sailing at the age of 81, as he is announced as part of British Sailing Team squad and is looking to qualify for the Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games.

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/new...Legend-Returns



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[tink]

2017: Keith Musto, founder of industry leading sailing brand Musto, has revealed an astonishing return to sailing at the age of 81, as he is announced as part of British Sailing Team squad and is looking to qualify for the Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games.

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/new...Legend-Returns



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Scratch that, I presume that it was intended as an April fool. Feeling rather silly

[keyhavenpotterer]

good luck with trials. Like your rig. Very nice.

Will the box sort of flip from inside the hull, over the gunnel and somehow sit clipped creating the stability to climb back in.

[wtarzia]

I think it's just a quick way to rotate the mast to the desired angle.

--- That sounds right. The line with purchase on it must be for the vang and gets it more within reach. -- Wade

[tink]

It is an old IC sail, bit flat but I already had it. I will say the the tests where a bit Edison, results to work with. The 'container' has a strop around it and hooks under the leeboard, there is an old roller from a lawn mover in there also. With the canoe fully swamped I was able to get in fine and in provided I kept my weight on the container side able to bail. If I went slightly the other way an immediate capsize and swim followed. I was doing this between races with most of the sailing club enjoying the entertainment. I did a few more tests trying to use simple rope loop as a ladder. At this point the strop knots*had started to loosen and the buoyancy was coming into play too late and not really helping that much. I then did a few experiments pulling the container down as per the sketch, which worked ok but I didn't quite have the 'stuff' to perfect the idea.
So what next, I will try the idea in the sketch it gives total control of the buoyancy and also a better ladder system. I do feel confident enough, depending on the weather, to go unsupported on the Tees, I have sailed him before in a gusty F3 without incident, the safety boat was not as confident as me and constantly shadowed me.
Big thanks Brian, by writing this I have clarified my thoughts, sorry though one and all, well off topic.


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[keyhavenpotterer]

thanks tink

not off topic at all

[tink]

This was one of my inspirations, watch from 3.00 https://youtu.be/Z6sH9iAtyBk

clearly they don't have a sail.

My my thoughts are
1) open canoe, plain and simple don't capsize due to: design, location and weather. Location allows drifting or swim ashore with tow line
2) expect rare capsize but have righting technique that may be cumbersome but reliable
3) occasionally capsize and have quick, reliable, and permanently rigged righting system. Basically outriggers.

For my current situation I am loving exploring a sheltered and relatively narrow river, and bouncing between 1 and 2 but if it was simple and light enough want 3

[rudderless]

Location allows drifting or swim ashore with tow line

I have started carrying small flippers and snorkle mask on my smallest boats for that purpose. Mask probably not needed, because what seems to work best is keep head dry on my back with tow line connected to pfd. Then my arms can windmill to assist the kicking. By mistake I had bought some "resistance" fins long ago which idiotically were not to propel you but to resist and strengthen you, so I whittled off some reinforcement and it now kicks powerfully.

P.S. I think the canoe concept is self sabotaging from the reboard perspective. Contrast how a sit-on-top kayak can have essentially the same shaped wetted hull with lower freeboard at the bow and stern. Then it is easy to reboard at a certain exact point of the front or back where the narrowness prevents a roll reaction, and the low buoyancy lets you easily slide the craft under your torso. Then you roll towards the center of the boat.

There is little need for a canoe's upswept bow or stern with the sit-on-top self bailing design. The rare spray that the upsweep would shield can run toward scuppers (not just at the rear) in your now double floor which keeps you dry. You might think the double floor prevents a comfy deep footwell for upright seating, but imagine the kayak as a yard or more wide and with a raised seat. Mine are in the 36-39" range with enough stability to resist heeling of a considerably lighter sail and mast setup. I can weight shift a bit and the flexi mast spills wind in gusts... simple and usually carefree.