Page 1 of 12 1211 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 414

Thread: Designs for old codgers

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,992

    Default Designs for old codgers

    Thought it might be fun to explore and create a thread which collects designs ideal for old codgers.

    Old codger? When I pop down to the coffee morning at the sailing club, so many that were racing Scows are now struggling to keep sailing. Health issues abound, so many are just retiring from sailing, which is a shame.

    So, here's a few suggestions, it would be really nice to have other good designs added.


    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/ko...ytri/index.htm



    Frank Smoot has a new 14' design in progress.



    Seaclipper 10 is the most highly developed cockpit layout by far. For stroke issues perfect.

    Tiny Tri's rig illustrates the perfect attributes for this group. Roll up mast reefing, as per Hobie Adventure style, is the rig to fit on any one of these hulls chosen.

    Seaclipper 10





    The problem at Keyhaven is that dinghy spaces are to narrow to store any of these small tri's when assembled. Non have folding amas. A solution from Metz Boats might be availabe though.

    Nest post, what mono hulls might work.

    Brian

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Duncan, Vancouver Island
    Posts
    26,306

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    I like this thread and hope it does not succumb to thread drift. Maybe something SOF for monohull

    Last edited by JimD; 11-06-2016 at 11:57 AM.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,992

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Of coures CLC NED has to be first on the mono hull list

    http://www.clcboats.com/life-of-boat...on-Dinghy.html



    Leave off the mizzen and even use the hobie style mast rolling reef rig. They are all around 6 to 7 sqm. Just one leeboard placed on the side with the good arm!

    Thing is, water ballast means she is very light to move around, and then fill the tank at the water's edge. Does any other design do this at this small size.

    There must be other design which would work.

    Brian

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,992

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Yes, SOF, like Dave Gentry's Annabelle Skiff

    http://gentrycustomboats.com/Annabelle.html





    Would Old Codgers need/want more stabilty/steadiness under them?

    Brian

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Southern NH
    Posts
    1,334

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Yes, SOF, like Dave Gentry's Annabelle Skiff



    Would Old Codgers need/want more stabilty/steadiness under them?

    Brian
    She looks close to perfect.

    As I slide into codgerdom I feel that several things are important.

    Ease of launch and retrieval, assuming you don't have a dock suitable to tie up a H 12 1/2.

    Comfortable seating, with options for changing position.

    Stable enough to sail well without hiking out, and with little chance of capsize.

    Also capable of self rescue, should the capsize happen.

    Small enough to row or paddle if the wind dies.

    Some of us would have trouble even getting Annabelle up on a car roof single handed.



    Each of us gets old in different ways, and finds different things hard. My knees are tender, so I want a decent seat or three. I'm quite deaf, but that doesn't affect boat design much.

    Some of us have arthritis, and can't even hold a sheet.

    Some of us have balance problems.

    Age is just a series of barriers thrown at us in no particular order, so there is no one perfect solution.

    Allan
    And the Binnacle-bats wore water-proof hats
    As they danced in the sounding sea.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Duncan, Vancouver Island
    Posts
    26,306

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Of coures CLC NED has to be first on the mono hull list

    http://www.clcboats.com/life-of-boat...on-Dinghy.html



    Leave off the mizzen and even use the hobie style mast rolling reef rig. They are all around 6 to 7 sqm. Just one leeboard placed on the side with the good arm!

    Thing is, water ballast means she is very light to move around, and then fill the tank at the water's edge. Does any other design do this at this small size.

    There must be other design which would work.

    Brian
    I can't see it. I consider myself to be an old codger and a boat that comes in three pieces that has to be assembled before use would be a deal killer and not on my list of considerations.
    Last edited by JimD; 11-06-2016 at 01:38 PM.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,992

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    The Seaclipper 10 design where you sit facing forward, realy helps those of us with balace issues. There were 6 of us affected, all from different causes.



    Easy to include a micro-winch on the mainsheet too.

    Good to have this control layout

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    1,964

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Scamp comes to mind as a great "old codger" boat. Water ballasted so fairly easy to move around when out of the water but also very stable when in use. Easy to use sail plan that is big enough without being too big. Comfortable cockpit and having that water ballast on-board makes it easy to get in and out of if you have issues with limited mobility.
    Steve

    Boats, like whiskey, are all good.
    R.D Culler

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Oriental, NC USA
    Posts
    3,853

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    I think Frank Smoot has laid out some very interesting boats that qualify as suitable for older or handicapped sailors. His original folding tri with the fan sail should be at the top of the list for ease of rigging and launching. One thing about his as well as many other "easy sail" boats is that the operator sits facing forward. This I don't like and maybe its because I am wedded to sitting sideways for so long, but I don't think so. I do sit or stand facing forward in large boats and those with wheel steering. In a boat that heels very much, facing forward gives me a crick in the neck. Sailing a mini 12 proved to be a bad experience for this reason. It also means that the tiller is behind you and that is really a killer on a small boat if you are racing. If you are just daysailing or not in competition, not being able to see what is happening aft may not be a big issue but otherwise, I'd not want that. Being restricted to one position, usually an enclosed seat, means that moving about to do whatever may need attention is greatly hampered. I'm 84 and may qualify as a candidate for an easy boat but I'm not ready for the home yet.

    Edited to remind myself that I had a birthday in September and am now in my 85th year and not the 84th. Senior moments do occur with greater frequency now.
    Last edited by Tom Lathrop; 11-06-2016 at 01:12 PM.
    Tom L

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,992

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    I can't see it. I consider myself to be an old codger and boat that comes in three pieces that has to be assembled before use would be a deal killer and not on my list of considerations.
    Jim, here we are not using the plans drawn without the Nesting. Much easier to build and cheaper.

    Brian

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Duncan, Vancouver Island
    Posts
    26,306

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Jim, here we are not using the plans drawn without the Nesting. Much easier to build and cheaper.

    Brian
    Pardon my assumption.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,992

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Lathrop View Post
    I think Frank Smoot has laid out some very interesting boats that qualify as suitable for older or handicapped sailors. His original folding tri with the fan sail should be at the top of the list for ease of rigging and launching. One thing about his as well as many other "easy sail" boats is that the operator sits facing forward. This I don't like and maybe its because I am wedded to sitting sideways for so long, but I don't think so. I do sit or stand facing forward in large boats and those with wheel steering. In a boat that heels very much, facing forward gives me a crick in the neck. Sailing a mini 12 proved to be a bad experience for this reason. It also means that the tiller is behind you and that is really a killer on a small boat if you are racing. If you are just daysailing or not in competition, not being able to see what is happening aft may not be a big issue but otherwise, I'd not want that. Being restricted to one position, usually an enclosed seat, means that moving about to do whatever may need attention is greatly hampered. I'm 84 and may qualify as a candidate for an easy boat but I'm not ready for the home yet.

    Edited to remind myself that I had a birthday in September and am now in my 85th year and not the 84th. Senior moments do occur with greater frequency now.
    Tom, how does the fan sail reef?

    the Seaclipper has foot controls for steering. Different layouts are used for adapting to different abilities. Perhaps this style is best with tri rather than mono. I think NED has so much to offer.

    Can I say, thank you for your posts and contributions to the thread. I was somewhat worried about starting a codger thread!

    Brian

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,992

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    Pardon my assumption.
    Sorry , did not mean to to rude or cause offence.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Duncan, Vancouver Island
    Posts
    26,306

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Sorry , did not mean to to rude or cause offence.
    You did neither.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    South Australia and Tasmania
    Posts
    10,370

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    I'm going to bookmark this thread and come back in 20 years.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL
    Posts
    3,373

    Default

    SCAMP comes to mind - stable water ballasted hull, simple rig, comfortable cockpit.



    And look! Get a SCAMP and get a few new old codger friends!!!

    Last edited by kenjamin; 11-06-2016 at 05:34 PM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,528

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    How about the good old Beetle Cat or Bolger's ply version? These boats aren't too heavy and have simple enough rigs. And they're designed to be sailed in a relaxed position, but don't lock the skipper into facing directly forward.

    -Dave

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,528

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    A Bolger boat designed for old coots who wanted to mess about the Florida backwaters was Old Shoe. This is a shorter Micro without the cabin.



    -Dave

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,992

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    I perhaps did not make it clear, I was thinking "an old codger" launching and retreving boat even easier to launch and retrieve than a 130kg Scow. When still reasonably fit with a driving licence still, I have lost mine now, it's difficut to imagine this next phase, but it happens. I am imagining an old codger would love to sail as crew on SCAMP but not strong enough now on their own.

    Brian

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,992

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    How about the good old Beetle Cat or Bolger's ply version? These boats aren't too heavy and have simple enough rigs. And they're designed to be sailed in a relaxed position, but don't lock the skipper into facing directly forward.

    Dave Gentry's SOF even lighter.

    http://gentrycustomboats.com/Melonseed.html


  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    441

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Not sure wether I count as an "Old Codger"! I`m 68, a bit overweight and not very nimble but I get on well with the Mirror Dinghy. I rediscovered the Mirror class this year on the English south coast and have now got one for here in Germany.

    Whatever boat you choose it has to fit your abilities and wishes, there`s not much point in having a boat that you are not capable of getting onto off a beach or jetty (how would you get in a small Tri from a jetty?)....it is very advisable to try a few different boats before purchasing your own and this thread should help with decision making.

    Hope that helps.

    Greetings from Germany,

    Alan

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,528

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    The Melonseed is a great boat. I've sailed one and it got me to thinking I'd like one some day. But as Dave shows in the photo above, one sometimes needs to sit on the deck and sail it like a Sunfish or Laser. Not for the soon-to-be feeble. (I include myself in this category, btw, and have been thinking a lot about boats that will suit me.)

    So if you want a very light boat that's easy to pull out of the water as well as one that is highly stable, we're back in mulithull territory. Like those 3-meter class trimarans. It would not be hard to build one with amas that slide in against the hull.
    -Dave

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Norwich,United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,631

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    At our club we had a Laser racer who finally hung up his wetsuit at 86.I doubt that many of us will emulate the perseverance he had and will watch this thread with interest.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    PNW, an island west of Seattle
    Posts
    1,118

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    I'm hoping that my Somes Sound 12.5 will take me into the grave. This is a derivation of the H12.5, similar to the Haven. It is easily launched from the trailer. Weight isn't an issue because the vehicle takes care of that. I suppose that if I get quite feeble, I'll need someone to help me launch and rig the boat. Stepping the mast will be a bit of a chore someday. I'm fortunate in being able to keep her on a mooring during our sailing season. The dinghy trip will be the hardest part when the day comes. If the chop is up by either wind or power craft, getting on and off and securing the mooring cover is not a lot of fun. I may very likely move her to a marina when I get to the old fogey stage simply to avoid the dinghy trip. The actual sailing is fantastic in a SS. The boat is easy to sail, is quite stable, and is comfortable to sit in. I can move about without it listing uncomfortably.

    Jeff

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    106

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    The Melonseed is a great boat. I've sailed one and it got me to thinking I'd like one some day. But as Dave shows in the photo above, one sometimes needs to sit on the deck and sail it like a Sunfish or Laser. Not for the soon-to-be feeble. (I include myself in this category, btw, and have been thinking a lot about boats that will suit me.)

    So if you want a very light boat that's easy to pull out of the water as well as one that is highly stable, we're back in mulithull territory. Like those 3-meter class trimarans. It would not be hard to build one with amas that slide in against the hull.
    That's the very thing that stopped me building a melonseed last time around. I adore the design, but, being tall and with time moving on, a seat (with the option of a side deck if I'm feeling athletic, or have crew) is particularly nice.

    I have neglected her a bit while I get used to my old gaffer, but my Navigator 'Annie' is very easy to launch and sail alone and in comfort even for a 'six footer'. Having enormous inherent stability she gives confidence and that increases in importance with age I think.

    I'm thinking the Houdini would be a consideration for this thread too (with a simpler rig than navigator), although both of these are probably more the type of boats that whipper-snappers can continue to use well into codgerdom than types to build for the advanced stages of restrained venerability...
    Rob

    http://middlething.blogspot.com
    Last edited by Rob540; 11-06-2016 at 06:41 PM.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    19,376

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Cyrus Hamlin designed the Elderyacht for himself, not small or cheap at 30 feet. It has as I remember a forward cockpit for handling the ground tackle. I can't find a picture and I am not sure it fits in the parameters of this thread

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Olympia, WA, USA
    Posts
    1,071

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    My 73(?)-year-old father just shipped his Beetle Cat to Italy, where he's been living for the last many years. I don't know that I'd classify him as a codger, but he's had the boat since new in '77, and she seems to work pretty well for him. I look forward to photos of his sailing in Venice.

    Alex

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Albany Western Australia
    Posts
    116

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Good topic of conversation Brian, I'm thinking there may be two options/schools of thought here:

    1. Boats that are easy to launch and retrieve at the ramp and secure to sail.

    and

    2. Boats that don't need a car to launch i.e. light, but that can still be set up for secure sailing.

    It might also be worth adding a third consideration, ways we can launch/retrieve boats more easily?

    I'm thinking Scamp is a good candidate for the first category and a lighter dinghy like Phoenix 111, with a small lug (half the weight of a Scow?) might meet the second criterion? At the end of the day though, manhandling a Phoenix 3 may still be onerous for some and a third swing down steered wheel on a small trailer, that can then be pushed into the sea, is a good option for easier launching. Lots of Oz tinnie owners manage this way. That said a well set up car launch, can also be simple and easy on the back?

    Another thought, given that we're always told that being part of a community of like minded people is good for health, we could always consider ways to sail in the company of others, two backs are always better than one when launching a boat.

    Finally it's probably also worth considering that (hopefully unlikely) worst case scenario, a capsize and the difficulties a re-entry might pose to an older sailor?

    Cheers,

    Adrian

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
    Posts
    340

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    My friend, a gent of great maturity, dislocated his shoulder whilst pulling his scamp alongside a float stage from inside the cockpit.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Oriental, NC USA
    Posts
    3,853

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Tom, how does the fan sail reef?

    the Seaclipper has foot controls for steering. Different layouts are used for adapting to different abilities. Perhaps this style is best with tri rather than mono. I think NED has so much to offer.

    Can I say, thank you for your posts and contributions to the thread. I was somewhat worried about starting a codger thread!

    Brian
    Brian,

    Here is a video of the tri I am talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8kU...ature=youtu.be Frank's website is
    www.DIY-Tris.com and seems not to have the folding tri on it now, perhaps because he does not sell plans for it.

    I've corresponded with Frank a few times and think that he has some brilliant ideas. This is one of his earlier designs that should be about the easiest to launch and rig for anyone. If I built it, there would be a side deck to sit on, a more traditional remote style tiller and a bit different mast lifting mechanism. His works well but I can't get over the awkward look of it. A remotely operated tabernacle would be more to my liking. His later tris are probably faster but I assume that is not what we are looking for here.

    I have sailed a number of small cat boats and think they could be problematic for anyone with limited mobility. Many would require getting to the mast for some functions and that could be a problem in all but the best weather. My current boat is a LAPWING cat ketch designed to my requirements by Graham Byrnes of B&B Yachts. It is a fine boat but I did make a mistake in calling for sail tracks and battened sails. The purpose being a bit more efficient sail area and easier reefing. I built an earlier version (Bay River Skiff) with unbattened sails that rolled up on rotating masts that was very simple and quick to rig and launch while Lapwing takes much more time and effort for the same tasks for little extra reward. After first bending on the sails on LOON, they were never again removed and were ultra simple to use. Such a boat with a main (or both) tabernacle set up would rig and launch almost as quickly as Franks folding tri. Frank's tri would be less demanding of agility for old farts though because of the greater stability that a tri offers. While I still have enough strength and agility to rig and step the masts on LAPWING, there will eventually come a day when both may be in shorter supply.

    I forgot to answer your reefing question. With a tabernacle and mast heel buried deep in the boat, it would not be difficult to lower the mast a bit and pull up the lower fan panel. All done underway with a couple of strings. Actually, I'd use a cockpit winch (trailer winch?) on the mast heel.
    Last edited by Tom Lathrop; 11-06-2016 at 09:38 PM.
    Tom L

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Aquitaine
    Posts
    672

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    This thread is of interest to many of us, looking forward to something less demanding.
    Me, I am going from a light double ender, that requires occasional quickish reactions, to a ballasted mini cruiser. The launch will be from a piggy back trailer with winches, probably electric. So no more work than now, which is pretty easy. Cabin with comforts appeals a bit more now, even if small. Ballast even more so. When I get a bit further forward I will start a thread. Deadline is the last week in May for the Festival in Brittany.
    A2 at 69

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,038

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    At our club we had a Laser racer who finally hung up his wetsuit at 86.I doubt that many of us will emulate the perseverance he had and will watch this thread with interest.
    Down here in Oz there's currently four guys aged over 70 who are recording speeds of over 35 knots (averaged over 10 seconds and using verified software) on their speed windsurfers. One sailor who is over 75 has a current top speed of over 30 knots. Obviously there's a lot of luck involved with being that fit at that age, but it's also interesting to see what can be done.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    919

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Does a foiling moth fit the bill.......

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    4,992

    Default Re: Designs for old codgers

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    Down here in Oz there's currently four guys aged over 70 who are recording speeds of over 35 knots (averaged over 10 seconds and using verified software) on their speed windsurfers. One sailor who is over 75 has a current top speed of over 30 knots. Obviously there's a lot of luck involved with being that fit at that age, but it's also interesting to see what can be done.
    So, just making a point of how fit I could be. Thanks. My best pal is still windsurfing, reitired to Devon, for great surfing, winsurfing. I got the short straw. Brain tumour, awake cranial surgery, 6 weeks radio and chemo to leave me as weak as a kitten. Three months recovery and finally feeling a little stronger. Even some optimism to start a thread like this. Tomorrow afternoon I see my oncologist to see if my MRI scan shows no growth or new tumour growth.

    This thread is for those of us making the best fist of it, not giving in. Please have a thought, we don't need someone coming along telling us how fit we could have been. We are looking at designs which can work when weaked by health issues, less able struggling with an arm that hardly works, hands that are too arthritic to hang onto a mainsheet. All these issues are solvable, and here we can enjoy exploring those solutions.

    Brian
    Last edited by keyhavenpotterer; 11-07-2016 at 03:11 AM.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    517

    Default

    Great idea for a thread Brian.
    I am 51 and moved onto the Streaker class because I thought it would be a good class as I got older.

    A Streaker but not me in it. Jack Holt apparently designed it as he approached his twilight years to be light weight and he was having difficulty pulling his Solo up the slip. It is stable and well mannered and has a class legal wave sail for heavier weather.

    At some point I will not be able to sail the Streaker and I do think about want I would do.
    Sticking with Jack Holt an older member of our club is still very active in a Heron

    And another one in a Gull

    Being older designs these do get a bit heavy.

    My daughter sails an Opi, and perhaps there is a opportunity to design a Opi for the older generation, perhaps a PD racer with a smaller rig, just thinking out loud.

    Anyway my spec would be on the lines of,
    Light weight
    Stable
    Reefable
    Short / Light spars
    Comfortable

    I will give this a bit more thought, as I say great thread.

    Tink



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •