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Thread: Edwardian Race Cars

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    First attempt at a flywheel drive is approaching testability. I'm going to try it before I make a car for it.

    The cop out is a multi speed freewheel on a jackshaft. Internally geared hubs are too weak for this application, I think, except the specially made mountain bike type, which are big bucks.

    Anyway, if I eliminate the flywheel, I think I'll make a more low slung looking car with chain final drive, after all.

    I think I've solved the problem of making the front axle, and steering knuckle biz, too.

    And, at least this isn't politics, right?

    Peace,
    Robert

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Phillip will be pleased…….

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    http://www.toylander.com/Toy_cars.php
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    I am far too invested in this whole charade to cop out and buy plans, now. And, really, I think I just have to go back to an external chain drive, if only because it looks cool. I hope to test the flywheel deal early or mid week, next week.

    I really think little chain guards on both sides will look cool. I may also revert to a racier looking model, more like that cool little Bugatti with the long, pointy stern.

    Oldest son is big time investigating making a larger car with electric motors, batteries, and even a solar panel.

    Me? Oh, I'm already trying to figure out how that chain transmission shifter works. I got the dog problem solved (I think A2 will work, and my buddy already has some machines set up to cut that stuff. He laughed at the "problem" posed by cutting them.
    Once I get a working linkage, we can start looking for a salvage motorcycle...

    All this spins around and around in my head. Like a loop. Heh heh.

    Peace,
    Robert

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    "All this spins around and around in my head. Like a loop. Heh heh."
    Well it's a better thought to have in your head than the recent election Rob.
    #62 is a good model to emulate, and I especially like the acetylene headlamp and pointy nose cone. Is your cycle car to be a 2 seater? If so will you double up the pedal cranks?

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Yes, I really like #62. My thought in emulating the GN was to use one lever to actuate the idler clutch on the belt, and the other lever to actuate the brake, same as the real deal.

    There are some photos that show the belt drive on #62, and the belt pulleys on the rear wheels are also the brake drums. Brilliant. The pulleys are also tied to the spokes, and ride on a set of their OWN short spokes. Hmmm. If I laced a 32 hole rim into a 40 hole rim, I might could leave some open spoke holes for a drive pulley. Putting brakes shoes in it wouldn't be all that hard.

    Still, for final drive, I think I've decided on external chains, just for the look. And my brake will probably just be on the axle.

    We shall see if the flywheel and belt live... I plan to make a quadrant for the clutch lever from an old chainring. It's already got calibrated detents!

    The pedal car will be a one seater. I want to build it, drive it around a bit, then turn it over to the youngest. He can then drive it and accompany me on long runs. Win win!

    Either way, the cone and single headlight stay, though I will use an LED light.

    Peace,
    Robert

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    "though I will use an LED light."
    In a suitably vintage looking lamp I hope!

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    "though I will use an LED light."
    In a suitably vintage looking lamp I hope!
    Oh, indeed. I excel at fauxnachronistic items, so much so, I think I coined the term. Really, I do enjoy recreating things, with my own twist. I did a series of paintings and pastels that were copies of master works, but with graffiti on them. I did The Scream with a mustache drawn on, bugs bunny style, for example. Made a hundred million wands when Harry Potter was cool, too.

    I am a designer and maker of properties, so this is just another in a series of wild adventures.

    The headlamp and taillight will be modern, to keep it street legal for bicycles. I think I will wire in a separate brake lamp, too. But, they will look old. I love the headlamp,on #62 as much as the cone!

    Yes, the goal is to look as "period" as possible, though new, not "antiqued". I want it to look like a brand new, baby, pedal-powered, GN copy.

    Later, speedier, motorized versions can be rip-snorting, elbow-rubbing, tail-dragging, chopped out speed machines.

    Peace,
    Robert

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    I fell in love with a 1923 Riley Redwing in my youth, but I settled for a 1948 MGTC. Only slightly more practical.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Oh, I quite like that Redwing. Very pretty. Especially the fenders, er, mudguards.

    Peace,
    Robert

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    I doubt they deflected much mud myself. Your ears would be full of it after a run.

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Oh, I quite like that Redwing. Very pretty. Especially the fenders, er, mudguards.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Ears !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    How have you lot managed to see a pic of my ears?! I'd post one, but any image with adequate resolution would quickly overwhelm file size limitations. And that's just a pic of the one ear!

    Peace,
    Robert

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Man, I managed to have a major breakthrough in the foot powered drive system for the car, I think. Yes, foot powered, but not bicycle, per se.
    Some new fangled variation on this old fashioned drive system would be appropriate, I think.

    I have figured out the suspension, brake, and drive, I think, though I'm still unsure of the spindles and steering situation. Part of me wants to go bobbin and spectra, part of me wants to go linkage and bellcranks.

    Anyway, works worky, then drawings, then I'll post. I think I'm close to cutting some timber...

    Peace,
    Robert

    PS These are not my drawings, but something I found on the web.

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars


  16. #86
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars


    Well. This should clear EVERYTHING up.
    Honestly, its beginning to make sense in my head. I'm working on a real detailed drawing of the front suspension, which will have leaf sprigs (sort of) and friction dampers. Why not?

    The details of the drivetrain are still evolving, but I think this will work well, and the leg motion will lend itself better to being inside a car body. Plus, the motion is essentially just a straight leg press, which is the most powerful part of the pedal stroke.

    The last real mystery remains the spindles. Well, and the steering, which I think sort of depends on what kind of spindle I end up with. There are a few options available, and the first idea is never good. I've decided to try and use bike parts where possible, so the front end is being dreamed up from bike parts, too...

    On another front, I do believe a passable go cart motor has been located, for version two... The go kart may get the flywheel, but it will surely have a belt clutch and a two speed chain tranny...

    Peace,
    Robert

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars


  18. #88
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Thanks.

    I actually worked for several years with wheelchair athletes, and it was the bike chair that made me think of using paired cranks with a pedal between. The first wheelchair link is full of amazing stuff. Thank you for the links. And the interest. It's easy to feel less crazy if someone else is cheering you on.

    I think I may have sussed out the steering, and I'll cram that on the front axle/suspension page, as is my custom. I'll post a pic, why not?

    For the record, there are a few pieces of slightly blue pine just sitting in the pile, waiting patiently to be cut into frame rails. Almost everything else is on hand, too, so as soon as this finally figures itself out, I'm ready.

    Of course, I AM still muddling my way through a sailboat build. No, I'm not documenting it here. But I am building one, honest. Right now, it is the endless dance of the longboard, fairing, fairing, fairing glass sheathing. Whee.
    I remember now why I swore never to build a boat sheathed in glass again. Dang. Really, this is the last one.
    Meh. The sanding is when I figure out the car!

    Peace,
    Robert

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    If you want only 3 wheels and some performance then Google tripodcars.com
    Cheers from Martin B.
    Mandurah, Western Australia
    mcbunny09@gmail.com

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Cool site, Martin. I just can't wrap my head around trikes, though, they are super unstable, in my experience.

    Also, I'm really focusing on a pedal, or foot powered car. For now.

    Peace,
    Robert

  21. #91
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  22. #92
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Rob, you have some great ideas there, but keeping the weight down will be an issue.
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Thanks, again. Everybody.


    The weight is surely something I'm keeping in mind. Most of what I've put up has been "thinking with my pencil", but good ideas usually come from not so good ones.

    I broke down and ordered some wheels yesterday. I wanted to make sure I had a matched set of four. At some point, I decided to do this right, help us all.

    I'm hoping to keep the weight around 30 pounds. Pine frame and front axle, canvas seat, either paper or cloth mache body panels and fenders. I plan to use a tubular steel rear axle and centershaft, too. Also, I think bobbin and cable steering will be lightest. There will be as many lightening holes as I can fit, too. Hehehe.

    Oh, and the pedal/crank shafts will be simple wooden arms and pedals pivoting on brass rods. Cheap, light, plenty strong.

    Brass and copper where possible, actually. Copper riverts for fasteners, for example.

    Dang it, I want this stupid thing to at least look,good.

    Peace,
    Robert

  24. #94
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    I found a flywheel supplemented bike trapped in the web. Looks very cool...
    http://newatlas.com/flywheel-bicycle...braking/19532/
    Peace,
    Robert

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars


    The prototype constant torque treadle type drive unit.

    Two independent freewheels are mounted on a shaft, and one gear is fixed on the shaft. The shaft is supported in bearings.

    Each freewheel will carry a drive chain from one pedal or other, and the fixed gear will be the drive gear. The fixed gear will either drive an idler shaft with drive gears for the rear wheels (which are to be chain driven, externally, because it is wicked cool, and I can make chainguards for both sides, which is also wicked cool), or an intermediate geared hub first, if we need more gear, and then to the idler shaft.

    This bitty one was just proof of concept. The real drive will be a little larger to fit the car.
    One more concept to prove before the real designing can begin. No, it's not friction dampers. I got those figured out!

    Peace,
    Robert

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars


  27. #97
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Got me some wheels today. Full of decals, but they should be awesome.

    I plan a bit of time tomorrow to update this thread and the boat one. Pics to put up, and all.

    Peace,
    Robert

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Gosh, I got super busy, then had a brainstorm while I was sanding. I'm going to do some figuring and sketching, then peel those decals off, ick, and get up a pic of my wheels.

    The brainstorm was steering related. And, a drive simplification, which needs to be worried over, and needs to happen.

    I'm going to cut some wood up and get a rough frame roughly put together for measuring and figuring on.

    Youngest son is very excited. So am I, really.

    Peace,
    Robert

  29. #99
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars


    Hey, hey! These are the hubs of the wheels. All four the same, for looks, simplicity, and convenience. These bearings have threaded caps that engage the inner races, which I can bore out and use as caps, with a threaded axle through the whole shebang, for the fronts. The little threaded caps originally engaged the aluminum axle that came with them, which were designed to hold a quick release skewer. Thanks Tulio!
    The axles are looking to be grade 8 bolts, right now.
    For the rears, the removed bearings leave a really nice square bottomed hole that can be pinned to a shoulder on the axle (which is a fancy way to say there can be a hole drilled in them that a hex drive cap head screw in a washer welded on the axle will fit into, keeping it from spinning), and bolted on. The drive gears will be drilled and bolted to the hubs, in the holes the disk brake rotor would ordinarily go. The idler shaft will drive both rear wheels with external chains.

    Oh. And, yes. We have already done extensive research into the proper bits to put in your spokes to make a motor sound. Youngest son has a bicycle that sounds like my old Puch moped.

    The rear axle and idle shaft will spin in bottom bracket bearings, and the front wheels will roll on these, so it should be a smooth rolling chassis. I plan to run 700x32 tires with 90psi in them.

    Now that I have the wheels, I can build the spindles and rear axle to suit. Then I can make the front axle to suit the spindles. And then...

    Peace,
    Robert

  30. #100
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    The front wheels want positive camber, so I'm torn, as this is all custom.

    Would it be better to have the axle at 90 degrees to the kingpin, and the camber in the kingpins, or better to have the kingpins vertical and the axles installed with positive camber?

    Or, would it be six of one?

    It is warm enough to go tinker, so I'm going to boat a bit and car a bit before evening chores beckon. I want to start bending metal bits to make the axle ends, tonight. Maybe.

    I think I have this whole darn thing figured out...

    Peace,
    Robert

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars


    So. If I took an old flashlight reflector, and a copper fitting, I bet I could make a cool headlamp for the car.
    The little hole will be carefully enlarged to admit a slightly larger bulb, hardwired into the car. A little fitting with a brow will cap the whole shebang, and hold the lens in place.
    It will have head and taillight, and a brake light, all wired in.
    Why not? I have to put something on the dash, so it may as well be a light switch.

    Peace,
    Robert

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Love the headlight Rob, needs a fat rim I reckon to make it look bigger and older..

  33. #103
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    I agree. Upon reflection, it is way too small and cheesy. It works, quite well, though, so I'm happy. That stuff was just sitting in the Drawer of Doom, and I went rooting for some copper wire to make a rivet.

    Bing! My Disorder kicked in, and I had to try this light. It might work for the tail light...

    I have a friend who does large plumbing stuff. Maybe I can have him grab me an offcut of large copper pipe...

    Peace,
    Robert

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post

    Hey, hey! These are the hubs of the wheels. All four the same, for looks, simplicity, and convenience...

    Peace,
    Robert
    Hey Rob, I know you've said you're a bicycle mechanic of some considerable experience, but is lacing you own wheels one of your talents? If so, have you got any tips on the subject? It's a skill I'd love to have, but I'm wondering a: How hard is it? and b: How many wheels to do have to build to make it worthwhile learning?
    'When I leave I don't know what I'm hoping to find. When I leave I don't know what I'm leaving behind...'

  35. #105
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars



    Outside pulling spokes, three cross, double twist. The little shiny tape triangles are remnants of my scraper bike era.

    It would be hard to say if it is worth learning to build wheels. Sort of like building boats. It ain't cheaper, which is really why I bought, in this case.

    I would say you can get a better product in a hand made wheel, but that depends of the product, and the application.

    Lacing wheels is actually very easy. It is a simple pattern, no matter which lacing pattern you do, and they are all fairly simple.

    The art and skill in wheel building is getting a round, straight, properly dished (centered between the axle ends) rim, with spokes of proper, even tension.

    I would suggest you learn how wheels work by trying to save damaged ones. Figure out how to regain round and true, how to dish or redish, and then decide if you want to try to sock some money into custom wheels.

    I'd be glad to offer advice or opinions.

    The wheel in the pic is from the mid nineties. Daily driver for most of those years.

    I miss building wheels more than anything in bike land...

    Peace,
    Robert

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