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Thread: Edwardian Race Cars

  1. #561
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    I do really like the car body lots of fun... now simply canabalize the motor steering and drive train (-speed govenor) from a old ride on lawn mower and your off to the races!

    PS. save the chain for the drive from the motor (up front) to one rear wheel.

  2. #562
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    I do really like the car body lots of fun... now simply canabalize the motor steering and drive train (-speed govenor) from a old ride on lawn mower and your off to the races!

    PS. save the chain for the drive from the motor (up front) to one rear wheel.
    I think you missed the entire point, here.

    I (we) are designing and building a pedal car. True, we have been discussing subsequent motorized cars, but I am building a pedal powered car.

    I reinterpreted an old style of "safety bike" drive and adapted it to modern materials. It's called a Constant Torque Treadle drive.

    The external chain final drive to the rear wheels is a key design feature I wished to copy from older cars, which is why I mistitled the thread Edwardian Race Cars. I am still torn on whether the little chain guards I make will be brass or ash.

    I have bent up a few ash fenders, just in case I want to run cycle type finders up front, which I may...

    Surely, motorized versions will follow, but one will be powered by an old edger motor via a belt drive and tension/idler clutch, and the second will be powered by a v-twin pump motor with a cone clutch and multi speed chain drive transmission.
    The edger powered car will use the older, smaller body forms I made to make a fiberglass shell for it. It will be styled like an old streamlined Mercedes racer.
    The v powered car will look like a GN cyclecar.

    The car I'm building now couldn't be further removed from a riding mower with a snazzy body. It's got a wooden frame, dovetailed together, and wooden "suspension" and front axle. The body is to be built fuselage skin on frame style.
    It will have a hand made brake and a hand made dog clutch, both operated by hand levers. The brake will be a ratcheting lever, and the clutch will be a positive/negative cam type lever. The ratcheting mechanism for the brake lever is being made from old bike parts and scrap metal.

    Every bit of this car has been dreamed up in my own head and heavily edited and modified by the people who visit this thread.
    This is the People's Car, man.

    The other thing is, I really do have plans to build a larger version of the same thing, with an electric assist and a multi speed transmission, so I can tow a trailer around the country, tripping one more time while I still can. An Imperial Tour!
    I may even use one of the goofy plastic airstream type trailers I'm trying to help my buddy build.

    Unhandy people are funny. I'm only helping him, he's doing the work, so the trailer work is going SLOW, and I don't want to build mine first.

    Peace,
    Robert

  3. #563
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Dang,
    I gotta keep up, this thing drops fast!

    Really, it's been warmish, so all my free time has been going to the boat, and not much actual work is happening on the car.
    Saturday will be a trip to the swap meet to get some bike junk, and other junk.
    I was working on the steering drawings and the seat drawings and the dog's tail knocked my coffee over onto them. Really, this dog is so charming and loving and wonderful, and VERY, VERY protective, but gosh I hate the tail. It hurts, and it can knock a full beer bottle or coffee mug off a table with one happy swipe.

    So. Back to the drawing board.

    Some real progress is to follow soon.

    I've been trying for the last few minutes to get a decent shot of the "new" rear end, and how sweet the tumblehome is looking. Dang, but I am terrible at picture taking.
    Also, the "old" rear end is about ready for an update pic. I hired out some sanding and filing work.

    Peace,
    Robert

  4. #564
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars


    I found this picture of a Morgan trike. The front end is setup like my idea. The kingpins are vertical, and the wheels have a bit of camber to cheat the pivot points. Yea!
    Plus, it's a neat picture of the trike...

    Peace,
    Robert

  5. #565
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post

    I found this picture of a Morgan trike. The front end is setup like my idea. The kingpins are vertical, and the wheels have a bit of camber to cheat the pivot points. Yea!
    Plus, it's a neat picture of the trike...

    Peace,
    Robert
    Oh, that's nice!

  6. #566
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Isn't it just !!
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  7. #567
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Well.

    I actually got a bit of drawing and futzing what I took pictures of, but the photo hosting site ain't responding.

    I'm 98% sure about the transmission and drive gear placement, and the seat rails, which were the last two variables in the frame layout.

    I think I may be near final glue up assembly on the frame.

    Hopefully I can post pictures sometime... hehe

    Peace,
    Robert

  8. #568
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Okay, my pictures work, but I gotta go, dang it.

    I'll post some later...

    Peace,
    Bisy Backson

  9. #569
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    No real anything. Boat progress, and several baseball and softball games, but car lag, and photo upload lag.

    Unrelated, sort of, but reality has begun to set in, and I realize building a street legal GN type cycle car is going to be, erm, tricky, whereas building a street legal trike is simple as pie, so I've been looking more and more at the Morgan car trikes, and emulating one of them. I like the style. Sort of. It's growing one me.

    I think a three wheeled car with a Harley motor would be cool. Shoot, one of those Yamaha parallel twins would be cool, too, actually. Anyhow, the possibility of building a trike car from scratch exists. Not so much a from scratch car car.

    In my searches, I found this, which is cool.
    http://www.build-threads.com/build-t...eeler-replica/
    Very inspiring.

    The GN? Well, I'll just have to build one, anyway. I got a bunch of county roads and dirt fields a big go kart could go on without too much hassle. I'll just have to make a tamer version than I thought, but maybe I'll make more a Sunday driver rather than a sports car.
    I mean, I might have to let the law take a spin in it, but I should be okay...

    This afternoon I am finalizing the rear "stem" form, then taking it all apart to begin final frame assembly. It's time to start laying a solid foundation and start some preliminary assembly.

    I will get some shots of the new rear body draped before I take it apart, and put up pictures later. Really.
    I'll have the time to sit and curse the stupid fiddly little phone and it's pretend buttons.

    Peace,
    Robert

  10. #570
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Wow ! So cool but our rego people wouldn't let me do it here .



    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  11. #571
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    A BMW twin would do the job perfectly or for water cooling a K75. Smooth and powerful.A 750cc , 3 cylinder and 75 hp.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-BMW-K75...fbPwLg&vxp=mtr
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  12. #572
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Wow ! So cool but our rego people wouldn't let me do it here .



    Yeah. Wild, eh? I think this may have already been posted on here, but there are a few pages, by now. Yeesh.

    Funny, that here, if you use a motorbike engine, and it's got three wheels, it's a motorbike. Not just that simple, but almost.
    The search is on for a salvaged bike in earnest, now.
    That's the trick, to rebuild a salvaged motorbike as anything BUT what it was. Titled as a special bike.

    The pictures remind me, I need to get a picture of the potential fenders I bent for the pedal car. I think I may run some ash fenders with copper or bronze struts.

    The potential trike car project thing is really exciting, actually. A project for next winter!

    Unless I actually do build another, bigger boat. Talked trees today. I am waiting the call to go mill some pines and oaks off my buddy's property. Already got some stashed away...
    Paying for wood with sweat! Whoo-hoo!

    Peace,
    Robert

  13. #573
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    It's the best price to pay other than recycling from old buildings and saving good wood from landfill. A good stash of old high ring count fir would be good. Very good.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  14. #574
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    I'm about to split up this old walnut log piece and see what I got. If it's nice, I'll use a hand rived and planed dash on the pedal car.

    My buddy up the hill has a mill, but all my wood is old fashioned split and planed here. For now.

    I just dropped everything and went out to test fly my kite. Wind died. Back to the car.

    Peace,
    Robert

  15. #575
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars


    Well, I had to cover up the cat's chair to get a relatively uncluttered view, but this is the profile. The idea is for the whole deal to converge along the spine the center frame will make.
    This pattern will be transferred to a piece of ply, which will form the center frame of the butt end. The stringers will be attached to the center frame, just like a boat. There will be another pair of battens on top half of the frame either side the center frame.
    What?


    And, these are the potential cycle style fenders for the front wheels of the car. Maybe, maybe.
    I have no idea how they might attach, so I may just use them on my bike...

    Peace,
    Robert

  16. #576
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    This is the bit I need ! How to actually form the shape .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  17. #577
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars


    Well, Peter, first you need a Magical Shaping Rod. This is a crucial tool.

    These are also sometimes referred to as Rivets on a Roll.

    Seriously, most of this is by eye, or simply drawn with battens, then fleshed out.

    I do have an advantage in that I've been building skin on frame kayaks by eye for about 20 years, so I ain't afraid to just bend, and fudge and make a nice shape.
    There is also some aspect of lofting to this too, though, especially when duplicating sides, or transferring shapes.

    There is always the possibility of carving a model, too, to scale. Or to any scale, really, to get your shape.

    You could make some models and a tiny, rudimentary wind tunnel like the Wrights made. Ooh. Maybe we need a wind tunnel, actually. I bet if I put a window in the side of my coaming steamer, and ran a fan into one end...

    Peace,
    Robert

  18. #578
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  19. #579
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    The vid is relevant to drag.

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  20. #580
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Dang it, Peter.

    It is probably a good thing there's a whole planet between us!

    Maybe it's a bad thing? Boy, I do think we could have some good fun making junk together, eh?

    Thanks for the videos.

    Peace,
    Robert

  21. #581
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Do "motorcycles" registered as Special Construction in California have to pass smog?
    Cars do, and they have to pass with the current year's specifications, which is almost impossible.

    (You might want to find a bike with a current, and usable title)

  22. #582
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Do "motorcycles" registered as Special Construction in California have to pass smog?
    Cars do, and they have to pass with the current year's specifications, which is almost impossible.

    (You might want to find a bike with a current, and usable title)
    I have done a little research into it.
    I talked to the dude down the road, and my cousin. They both build hot rods, and have jumped through all sorts of title hoops.
    I also pored over DMVs documents.
    As I said, a little.
    Basically, building a special based on a car is out. Too much hassle. No way can I meet the requirements.
    But, the motorcycle can be rebuilt as a special with three wheels and a body, and still only have to meet motorcycle requirements.
    As I understand it, it is easier to register a special from a salvaged title than not. The moreso when the special one n NO WAY resembles the original vehicle. DMV seemed pretty adamant about that. I may be wrong. It has happened once before.
    At this point, it's all so much conjecture, anyway.
    Well. Speculation?
    Oh, I'm going to do it. Somehow.

    Peace,
    Robert

  23. #583
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    My experience is the cleck at DMV is far more concerned that you paid the appropriate taxes for every item that is included in your "Special Construction" especially the ones you built yourself.
    As far as I know there is no paperwork required to add a "sidecar", a body or other modifications to an existing motorcycle, but that could be changed since I was last doing it.

    For Heavy trucks (over 15k) they require you to identify the body type, i.e. dump, tanker, utility or etc.,list a certified weight and pay, pay, pay. For boats there is also a long list of hoops to jump through.

    In other words, tell them as little as possible and never, ever confuse them with facts. They like nothing more than a thick stack of reciepts and long list of requirements, it breaks up the mundanity of the day.

  24. #584
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    My experience is the cleck at DMV is far more concerned that you paid the appropriate taxes for every item that is included in your "Special Construction" especially the ones you built yourself.
    As far as I know there is no paperwork required to add a "sidecar", a body or other modifications to an existing motorcycle, but that could be changed since I was last doing it.

    For Heavy trucks (over 15k) they require you to identify the body type, i.e. dump, tanker, utility or etc.,list a certified weight and pay, pay, pay. For boats there is also a long list of hoops to jump through.

    In other words, tell them as little as possible and never, ever confuse them with facts. They like nothing more than a thick stack of reciepts and long list of requirements, it breaks up the mundanity of the day.

    I am about to jump though those boat hoops. You should see my stack of receipts.

    Peace,
    Robert

  25. #585
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Leave them out in the car.
    I filled out a "statement of facts" saying the materials (wood, nails) were left over from a "home construction project"...
    Oh, ho!
    The forum pays off again.
    By the by. If you ever want your wife, husband or partner to encourage you to finish a boat, just have a boat for them waiting in line.
    Everyday that lady asks when "we" are going to get her powerboat going.
    Everyday I say, as soon as this dumb boat is out of the way.

    Grey cat loves the powerboat, by the by. He gets up on deck, just abaft the windscreen and sits, looking out at the horizon contained in the garop wall? I don't know. Cats are weird and funny.

    Peace,
    Robert

  26. #586
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    I like cats, they are very intellegent animals.

    We used to take in stray cats and nurse them back to health. (Occasionally they are abandonded here at the end of the road and as cats raised in homes generally do not do well in the wild, and are only a boon for the Coyotes) One in particular was a good mouser and after a few months we took her out to her new home, the Boat Shop in Davenport. Years later when I would go there to visit, that cat would appear from nowhere and come up to me and say Hi!
    The proprieter was amazed as she was nocturnal and he rarely saw the cat at all, but when I showed up she would come right into the shop, smoozing me and even walking around and visting him. She was obviously happy to see an old friend.

  27. #587
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I like cats, they are very intellegent animals.

    We used to take in stray cats and nurse them back to health. (Occasionally they are abandonded here at the end of the road and as cats raised in homes generally do not do well in the wild, and are only a boon for the Coyotes) One in particular was a good mouser and after a few months we took her out to her new home, the Boat Shop in Davenport. Years later when I would go there to visit, that cat would appear from nowhere and come up to me and say Hi!
    The proprieter was amazed as she was nocturnal and he rarely saw the cat at all, but when I showed up she would come right into the shop, smoozing me and even walking around and visting him. She was obviously happy to see an old friend.
    Oh, you would love this grey fellow. He is every bit the cat.

    He will, however follow me about the yard. He is worthless as far as killing stuff, but we have the super old lady cat, still. She is vicious. A very prolific "mouser".

    I like most animals, actually. They trip me out. I like to wonder what they think, or how they think.

    Very Shaolin stuff, really.

    Peace,
    Robert

  28. #588
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    I had an old friend who made an analogy of how cats may think as perhaps similar to a human on LSD. An enlightened consciousness, he said "You can see it in their eyes"

  29. #589
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I had an old friend who made an analogy of how cats may think as perhaps similar to a human on LSD. An enlightened consciousness, he said "You can see it in their eyes"
    I had a friend in college who worked with brains. Lab rats, electrodes, brain function, learning, blahblahblah.

    She taught me a ton about how dog's brains work.

    But cats. She said exactly that. Cats brain function, or whatever, is analogous to a person on LSD.
    Whoa!

    On a "car" related note, I reread that home built trike thread again, very carefully, and you were totally right about the title deal.
    Dude had his GoldWing registered as a GoldWing right up to the day he walked out with his new Special Title.

    The trike has become a real project, now.

    The whole shebang is up in the air, yet, but as it fits into the spirit of the thread, I think the dreaming up and building of the trike should happen here, too.

    So. Pedal car, which is nearing realization.
    Simple go kart.
    More sophisticated go kart with two seats and gears.
    Full blown road legal Morgan type copy.

    Man. How slick would it be to tow my little rowboat over to the coast behind my trike? Well. It would be hilarious and goofy, at least.

    I actually worked on the car a bit last night, and I'm going to go fart around with it in a bit. I ran hard today, and I'm tired, so I may just postpone, or even skip work altogether.
    What?
    I'm an artist. You want I should start doing business like a banker? Part of being an artist is upholding the flighty nature of the being.
    I got distracted by a butterfly, sorry.

    Peace,
    Supposed To Be Working (but bad at being a grown up...)

  30. #590
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Page 2?
    No way....bump!

  31. #591
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Ha. Thanks.

    I got very distracted by the kite today, but then I crashed it. I just came in to check on it, and decided to check in here, too.

    I just cut the stern form thing for the car body from a scrap of ply, and I'm going to "frame" it in, fasten it temporarily and trim the battens close, to check the shape.
    Then I can drape the rear with cloth and check the shape.

    Some framing in the front needs to be built, too, but just a bit.

    Then, it's body off and apart, and final frame assembly. That's more joinery to cut, some ply gussets to inlet, some holes to drill and cut, and the whole frame screwed and glued.

    I had a brainstorm as far as the transmission axle is concerned, and I aim to test it out. If my new idea works, it will allow me to make a very compact and smooth turning transmission. A better mousetrap.
    Fingers crossed.

    Either way, the transmission looks to reside under under the seat, between the seat support rails, in a little strong box shape.
    The seat framing will also span this area to further stiffen it. I think the frame will be plenty strong there.

    Also, sketches are being photographed, and updated, and blahblahblah.

    I will have SUBSTANCE to add later.

    Peace,
    Robert

  32. #592
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars











    Well. I plan to increase the siding of the stem piece, at least at the top edge, so it will support a batten being attached to it. Well, the whole thing, really, so the battens can be screwed to it.
    The little humpy bit in the center needs to be sweetened up a bit, which will be easy to do in situ. Not bad for a shape I pulled out of the air, eh?
    Work on the front continues. I need to make an intermediate frame where the pedal mount will be, both to tie the upper brace and lower pedal area crossmember together, and to keep the sweet rounded shape. A few of the battens flatten out the curves because they're short. A frame intercostal to push them out to a sweet curve, and support the pedals. Twofer!

    Okay, off to test the repaired kite!

    Back with drawings and ideas later.

    Peace,
    Robert

  33. #593
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Is the fabric going to be the skin Rob ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  34. #594
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Is the fabric going to be the skin Rob ?
    Yeah, Peter, on this one, it will be plain woven cloth.

    I do, however, intend to saturate the cloth with a very dilute white glue based sizing, and then subsequent coats of progressively less dilute glue.
    The end result is a sort of plastic. It is much, much stiffer than simply painted cloth or paper mache.
    I have made hundreds of cloth mache objects over the years.
    No cars bodies, yet, though.

    I generally use cotton muslin, because it reacts well to glue and water sizing.

    This stuff is mostly wrapped around to get an idea of how it looks. I'll use a heavier cloth for the body, and in a few spots, a few layers. The opening hood part(s) will certainly be multiple layers of cloth. I think I know how that's all going to work.

    This part is skin on frame 101, really. Check the lie of everything under the skin before you skin,

    Peace,
    Robert

  35. #595
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    A lot cheaper and more pleasant to work with than glass cloth and epoxy .... home does it compare?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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