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Thread: Edwardian Race Cars

  1. #1
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    Default Edwardian Race Cars

    Oldest son and I are talking about building a pedal car that looks like an old chain drive racer.

    What's your favorite old chain drive race car?

    Peace,
    Robert

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars


    Something like this is what we're thinking, but with a pedal-powered, flywheel-driven transmission.

    Peace,
    Robert

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    GN car...
    Whatever you do, build it so you can install a small air-cooled engine in place of the pedals.
    You will inspire your son to great heights of engineering!
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GN_(car)




    Last edited by Canoeyawl; 11-04-2016 at 11:19 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Here's a link to some images of cyclekarts. Easily adaptable to pedals and just the right size.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=cycl...iw=601&bih=962

    Sent from my Lenovo YT3-850F using Tapatalk
    “What better way for a ruling class to claim and hold power than to pose as the defenders of the nation.” Christopher Hitchens

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    We found this old book with "plans" to build a "flymobile" pedal powered car, I think a precursor to the cyclecarts. I have a ton of bike scrap, so we figured to build one as a lark. We live right near a good long bike trail, too, so,there's that. And, youngest son could drive a pedal one.

    After the bugs are worked out, boy genius plans to add electric assist and a speed control of his own devising.

    I just bang on stuff.

    The main thing is to find a good visual style. The external chain drive to the rear wheels is important, because we like the look, and for future electric motor upgrade possibilities.

    Thanks for the links guys. Lots to look at. All ideas are good ideas at this point.

    I have honestly never in my life wanted a car until we began researching this idea. Man, I want a real old car pretty bad, now...

    Peace,
    Robert

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Many years ago, I had a dream that I was one of a traveling band and variety show, c. 1900. Our transportation was a bright green bus that broke down, so a couple of us crawled underneath to fix it, and it had a chain drive. The dream was photographically detailed, extraordinary, considering that at the time I didn't know such vehicles had chain drives.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Babs, possibly the ultimate chain drive car.


    Babs was the land speed record car built and driven by John Parry-Thomas. It was powered by a 27-litreLiberty aero-engine.
    Babs began as 'Chitty 4', one of Count Louis Zborowski's series of aero-engined cars named 'Chitty Bang Bang'. As it was built at Zborowski's estate of Higham Park near Canterbury, it was also known as the Higham Special.
    Using a 450 hp (340 kW) V12 Liberty aero engine of 27 litres capacity, with a gearbox and chain-drive from a pre-war Blitzen Benz, it was the largest capacity racing car ever to run at Brooklands. Still not fully developed by the time of Zborowski's death in 1924, it was purchased from his estate by J.G. Parry-Thomas for the sum of £125.[1]
    Parry-Thomas rechristened the car Babs and rebuilt it with four Zenith carburettors and his own design of pistons.[2] In April 1926, Parry-Thomas used the car to break the land speed record at 171.02 mph (273.6 km/h).
    Babs used exposed chains (covered by a fairing) to take power to the drive wheels. It has been rumored that the high engine cover required Parry-Thomas to drive with his head tilted to one side. This story is not true; photographs show that the driver could see straight ahead.
    During a later record attempt at Pendine Sands, Wales on 3 March 1927, the car went out of control at speeds in excess of 100 mph. The car rolled over and Thomas was killed. Following the inquest into Thomas's death,Babs was buried in the sand dunes at Pendine.[3]
    At the time it was speculated that Thomas may have been decapitated by the drive chain. Later investigation of the recovered wreckage suggested instead, that the rear right-hand wheel had failed, overturning Babs.

    F
    orty years later the car was dug up and restored.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    There's the Mercer Raceabout of course


    But I like the Minnesota special circa 1915-20.

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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Excellent. Thank you. I'm thinking more and more to go with a pointy butt.

    Well. Drawings and research and measuring. Fun stuff to me. I'll post some pictures of some drawings when we get closer to an actual idea...

    Thanks again for the input.

    Peace,
    Robert

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    Many years ago, I had a dream that I was one of a traveling band and variety show, c. 1900. Our transportation was a bright green bus that broke down, so a couple of us crawled underneath to fix it, and it had a chain drive. The dream was photographically detailed, extraordinary, considering that at the time I didn't know such vehicles had chain drives.
    This sort of vehicle:



    It had bright green paint with yellow trim. The chain sprocket was on the axle between the rear wheels, while most of the chain drives in old photos seem to be outboard, between the frame and a wheel.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    This sort of vehicle:



    It had bright green paint with yellow trim. The chain sprocket was on the axle between the rear wheels, while most of the chain drives in old photos seem to be outboard, between the frame and a wheel.
    Okay, not a race car, but I so don't care! That is cool. Several years ago they had a display at the county fair and there was an old truck with chain drive they used in the construction of the road up Kaiser Pass, I believe.

    Something like this, I think, lends itself to an electric motor, or motor assist, with a decent battery bank and a solar panel on the roof...

    Peace,
    Robert

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    sunbeam, 1922


    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    There's always the Frazer-Nash. My uncle had one in England whilst serving in Bomber Command in WW2.


    https://nearyou.imeche.org/near-you/...ve-frazer-nash

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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    the exaggerated tail would work well. shouldn't come as a surprise my affinity for the Bug's.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    the exaggerated tail would work well. shouldn't come as a surprise my affinity for the Bug's.
    Oh, yes. I rather like that. I really am very ignorant of cars, though. What is it?

    Peace,
    Robert

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    sunbeam, 1922


    Ayup. Pretty.

    Peace,
    Robert

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    There's always the Frazer-Nash. My uncle had one in England whilst serving in Bomber Command in WW2.


    https://nearyou.imeche.org/near-you/...ve-frazer-nash
    Yes, excellent. Problem is, I want the actual car, now, so I can go sliding around muddy corners!

    Peace,
    Robert

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Frazer - Nash is GN

    The original "quick change" gear ratio


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Frazer - Nash is GN

    The original "quick change" gear ratio

    Yes. Oh, yes.

    Honestly, it was the reading of the book, and the very idea of building a drive system with chains and a flywheel that really sparked the whole idea with me.

    I started goofing around, though, and really started falling in love with these old cars.

    Thanks so much, to everyone, for indulging me.

    By the by. I found some videos of these things racing around. I think this is my favorite. A 1905 Darracq? All I know is, it looks like a TON of fun, and a little thrill.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SgN138...ime_continue=4

    Peace,
    Robert

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Last edited by skuthorp; 11-06-2016 at 01:42 AM.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Wonderful.

    As to the Benz stuff, there is a 300d wagon in the drive that tests my love regularly...

    I had honestly been concerned about a diff, too, thinking to power only one rear wheel,and leaving the other to free wheel, but those GN cars ain't got no diff.

    I think I'm going to use 700c wheel on my car, which comes out to 24 inches tall, roughly, so I'm looking for the real tall, skinny wheel look.

    I'm off to run a marathon, then off to the bike shop.

    Peace,
    Robert

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Wonderful.
    all way too refined, especially the mercedes

    try this one out

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Pass on the hot oil hair treatment from the bomber engine.

    I do like the look, though. We've all agreed it needs some type of hood and butt cone, probably made from cloth mache to save weight.

    I am more and more thinking I need a proper cyclecar like one of those Frazier Nashes. More and more...

    Peace,
    Robert

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    I should say I like the line about the brakes existing only in the minds of the madmen who built it.

    Brakes. They just slow you down.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Last edited by amish rob; 11-06-2016 at 02:05 PM. Reason: the touch screen resists my caresses. I am not a star...

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    1924 Sima-Violet Cyclecar with flat twin engine


    B
    ody looks easily fabricated, partly in ply I reckon. Small MC engine would do.
    Last edited by skuthorp; 11-06-2016 at 03:55 PM.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    And there are kits…….. http://www.spitfireart.com/Gallery.html


  27. #27
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    If you really want a thorough understanding of old race cars,you might learn a lot form a well established thread here in the bilge; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-cars-pictures .

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Oh, yes. I rather like that. I really am very ignorant of cars, though. What is it?

    Peace,
    Robert

    1912 bugatti

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    These guys make a cool bit of kit. http://vintage-kart-company.myshopify.com/

    They are part of the "cyclecart" universe. Lots of stuff on youtube and elsewhere. 5 HP Honda engines.


  30. #30
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    If you really want a thorough understanding of old race cars,you might learn a lot form a well established thread here in the bilge; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-cars-pictures .
    Actually what gave me the idea to ask. That thread is so cool.
    I figured there were enough gear heads on here to point me in the right direction, and I was right. I asked here because I wanted to be very specific about the chain drive thing.

    Thanks.

    Peace,
    Robert

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars


    I actually had to work today. Who knows how to glue on sew ups, anymore?

    I did ride a sister to this, though. Yup. Pedal assist electric motor. Put any little bit of effort into the pedal, and the electric motor starts in on you. Limited to 20mph, but way cool. Bosch. Pretty crazy.

    Anyway, I thank you all for the input, and welcome any more. I pretty much know how big everything is going to be and where it needs to go and all, so some type of chassis designing can begin.

    Can anyone point me to info on those chain trannies and how they work? I know I CAN google it or what have you, but I never seem to find what I'm looking for.
    I am very intrigued by the shifting operation. These cars are getting a hold on me!

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    1924 Sima-Violet Cyclecar with flat twin engine


    B
    ody looks easily fabricated, partly in ply I reckon. Small MC engine would do.
    Ease of building ....and then repair are important . An electric bike motor is a possibility if the pedals lose their charm.

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Zundapp


  34. #34
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Homemade...
    They are "constant mesh" transmissions, the trick is coming up with workable "clutches" or "dogs"
    (Not a "clutch" in terms you may be familiar with)





  35. #35
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    Default Re: Edwardian Race Cars

    Home made Dog Clutches...



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