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Thread: Southern Cross

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by jamo View Post
    So I haven't been following this thread. What was Howard Rice trying to do down there? Where was he sailing to?

    Jamo
    Here are a couple links to fill you in: http://thepocketyacht.blogspot.com/2...l-wind-of.html
    http://below40south.com/

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    I've bookmarked this point on Ventusky showing the predicted general prevailing conditions, for Howard at 9pm Sunday 27 Feb 2017.

    Pacific 5 meter waves were still at 4.5 meter waves funneling directly into that channel Howard was in before considering all the wave diffraction and wind channelling effects. Winds were following the swell 50 kph gusting 80 kph down the channel.


    https://www.ventusky.com/?p=-54.09;-...&t=20170226/21
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 03-02-2017 at 10:45 AM.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    I'm just speculating/hoping. No way to know yet how she's situated.
    ouch! poor Howard here's hoping he is able to right his Scamp and continue his voyage!

    got to admit the limited info raises more questions than provides answers...

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Thanks for the update Dave. That's a harrowing account indeed. And can I note for everyone that while the boat may be retrievable it sounds like there are financial constraints that could make it impossible? The SCA page has a link to donate towards the recovery effort and I have done so.
    - Chris

    https://fvpetrel.wordpress.com

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    I'm really impressed by Howard Rice.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    I've made a donation. Really hope Howard is ok and able to recover the boat. It sounds horrifying.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Thanks for the update & a bit sent as well.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Thanks for the update Dave. That's a harrowing account indeed. And can I note for everyone that while the boat may be retrievable it sounds like there are financial constraints that could make it impossible? The SCA page has a link to donate towards the recovery effort and I have done so.
    Yes, retrieving and transporting the boat back home... at some point becomes more than replacing it. He did have the forethought to build a spare. All he'd need to do is talk his wife out of it, as it was built for her <G>.

    When Howard recovers a bit, I'm sure he'll sort out the best course.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Note: there is an update to the update on the SCA site:

    “I have never in my sailing life called for assistance and would not have done so unless I felt my life was in jeopardy. I also wish to note that in doing so that no other person was put in harms way.
    The Armada part; boat was not sent out to rescue me, it happened to be an hour away headed for Punta Arenas so the pick up was easy and non eventful. The Captain did the right thing and waited until conditions allowed their inflatable to come to shore in safety.
    I understand the responsibility of sailing in the region as dangerous as it is having done it before. The conditions I encountered were extraordinary even for Tierra del Fuego. No boat or sailor could have survived intact that day with the cyclonic winds. I feel I had a very fulfilling and successful voyage down the Strait of Magellan and through some of the most stunning scenery I have ever seen. I consider my voyage a success, just wish I hadn’t run into the cyclones, a new experience.
    Thanks Josh
    Howard”

    More news: Howard indicated he’s lined up a possible ride down to his boat and, to my surprise, he says he intends to resume sailing if the boat is reasonably intact. More soon. —Eds

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Kicked in some to help. Kelp..... who would have thought it. Interstingly enough not been a problem for the various people who have paddled down there which makes sense.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    Kicked in some to help. Kelp..... who would have thought it. Interstingly enough not been a problem for the various people who have paddled down there which makes sense.
    the Kelp seems to be part of the problem, but SC also dragged anchor back at punta-aries twice.. and I don't think kelp was involved there. and the most recent incident may have been exacerbated by Kelp but the capsize of the hull due to wind speed seems to indicate EXtreme conditions.

    extreme High winds seem to be a big factor in this equation, possibly effecting Scamp in particular due to her relatively High sides VS her total hull weight, I am assuming both masts have been up also when the winds have dragged her anchor and capsized the boat with no sails up.

    Hull windage can be an aspect of seaworthiness often not considered and difficult to calculate. There are certain wind conditions in which a given sail boat design will be over powered and un-able to function, seems that Howard has been experiencing that in Scamp.


    I also wonder if SC may be proving too heavy to be easily dragged ashore, I think this was a part of Howards seaworthiness strategy that he has not implemented...
    Last edited by Daniel Noyes; 03-03-2017 at 01:46 PM.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Certainly inability to anchor is a huge factor as the type of journey/boat/area demands it for a single hander. I presume the plan was to sit out bad weather or make a run for shelter at the first sign of it relying on previous experience in fresh breezes if caught out but no one is ready for 60-70 knots of wind in a Scamp. All good planning except the kelp was not anticipated and I would imagine that it was incredibly tough conditions for any boat or sailor so a lot of credit to Mr Rice. The fact remains though you are not going anywhere much except with it when its 30kts in a Scamp, beyond that it would be terrifying especially on a lee shore. There is no escaping the fact it is a short high wooded unballasted craft with a lot of unnecessary windage. As I mentioned in one discussion about SC, why the mizzen? In my view its not practical. Looks nice, but the lug as drawn by John a very sweet rig for those windy conditions, you simply don't need a mizzen.

    Futhermore, the extreme conditions are not unusual in that area, in fact its par for the course so perhaps you are correct, SC may have been too heavy to drag up a beach (like a sailing canoe) and too small to weather a blow. Maybe in that area its best to be one or the other?
    whatever rocks your boat

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Well, for starters Scamp is a ballasted boat. After all that, Howard was out there and none of the rest of us were. Hats off to the man. I hope my little donation helps him forge on.
    -Dave

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul G. View Post
    ...As I mentioned in one discussion about SC, why the mizzen? In my view its not practical. Looks nice, but the lug as drawn by John a very sweet rig for those windy conditions, you simply don't need a mizzen....
    --- I think the mizzen is seen as necessary for managble reefing and heaving-to in any conditions, and you can go a bit to weather with the mizzen and jib and all else down. It is for safety rather than additional power. -- Wade

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by wtarzia View Post
    --- I think the mizzen is seen as necessary for managble reefing and heaving-to in any conditions, and you can go a bit to weather with the mizzen and jib and all else down. It is for safety rather than additional power. -- Wade
    Yes, the mizzen is a balancing sail, it can be used in conjunction with the jib to quietly roll along under control in heavy weather, will bring the boat head to wind when sheeted hard in, can balance the boat so allowing it to self steer when on quite a wide range of courses, and spreads the sail area out lower and longer so there is less heeling moment.
    When test sailed against a conventional single lugsail SCAMP it was no slower, and on some points of sail a little faster.
    The only downside is that there is a lot more rigging, one more mast, and takes a lot more time to get rigged each time one wants to go sailing.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    the Kelp seems to be part of the problem, but SC also dragged anchor back at punta-aries twice.. and I don't think kelp was involved there. and the most recent incident may have been exacerbated by Kelp but the capsize of the hull due to wind speed seems to indicate EXtreme conditions.

    extreme High winds seem to be a big factor in this equation, possibly effecting Scamp in particular due to her relatively High sides VS her total hull weight, I am assuming both masts have been up also when the winds have dragged her anchor and capsized the boat with no sails up.

    Hull windage can be an aspect of seaworthiness often not considered and difficult to calculate. There are certain wind conditions in which a given sail boat design will be over powered and un-able to function, seems that Howard has been experiencing that in Scamp.


    I also wonder if SC may be proving too heavy to be easily dragged ashore, I think this was a part of Howards seaworthiness strategy that he has not implemented...
    Interestingly the Armada de Chile have recently completed a survey of kelp beds in the southern area of Chile, and as compared with 10 years back there is 60% more coverage now. That in the Armada's view has made many previously safe anchorages untenable.
    Global warming? Quite possibly. Also possible is overfishing, in either case it seems that man is the culprit.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Yes, retrieving and transporting the boat back home... at some point becomes more than replacing it. He did have the forethought to build a spare. All he'd need to do is talk his wife out of it, as it was built for her <G>.

    When Howard recovers a bit, I'm sure he'll sort out the best course.
    Keikos boat is still in kit form, not built yet.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  19. #89

    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Check out the latest Small craft Advisor blog... Howard AND Southern Cross survived and are on a fishing boat trying to out run some weather to safety. Hip hip hooray!

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    That is good news.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    From another forum posted 3/7: "John Welsford spoke to Howard this Morning, says Howard has some healing and recouperating to do from time spent in the water. This excursion is winding up, but, there will be more. Southern Cross is in good shape."

    Perhaps John can give us an update.

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by dalekidd View Post
    From another forum posted 3/7: "John Welsford spoke to Howard this Morning, says Howard has some healing and recouperating to do from time spent in the water. This excursion is winding up, but, there will be more. Southern Cross is in good shape."

    Perhaps John can give us an update.
    Glad to hear both will live to adventure another day.
    Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business.
    TOM ROBBINS, Even Cowgirls Get the Blues



  23. #93
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    I wonder if this means there might be more sailing down there in Chile or whether SC will be taken home now?

    Rick

  24. #94
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Kelp will remain a problem for access and anchoring. Howard may need to up date his files with locations of fishermen's anchorage lines.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by dalekidd View Post
    From another forum posted 3/7: "John Welsford spoke to Howard this Morning, says Howard has some healing and recuperating to do from time spent in the water. This excursion is winding up, but, there will be more. Southern Cross is in good shape."

    Perhaps John can give us an update.
    I spent an hour or so talking to Howard on the phone yesterday, its quite a story. Southern Cross is fine, got a few little dings and a cleat pulled out, but is otherwise in good shape. Howard will need time to recover but sounded much stronger, he had a lot of his dreams in that boat and recovering her was also recovering his dreams.
    I'll be back here later today and will post a report.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Great news John. Thanks.

  27. #97
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    Interestingly the Armada de Chile have recently completed a survey of kelp beds in the southern area of Chile, and as compared with 10 years back there is 60% more coverage now. That in the Armada's view has made many previously safe anchorages untenable.
    Global warming? Quite possibly. Also possible is overfishing, in either case it seems that man is the culprit.

    John Welsford
    Kelp has always been a problem down there, but i didnt realise the extent of the spread of kelp has been over the last decade.That really can change how one might move around down there. Might have to keep my ambitions to the Lofotens instead........

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    I spoke to Howard a few minutes ago, he's in Puerto Williams, Southern Cross is ashore, secure and has only very minor damage, some scrapes and dings from the many adventures that she's had but nothing that a bit of filler and some paint wont fix.

    Howard himself is healing, there will be some effects from the exposure to extreme cold that will take a while to come right but he's in good spirits, is being cared for very well by the Navy, by John and Patricio Como, the fishermen who picked up the little boat, and he's made many friends in PW.

    There will be a detailed report posted on Below40South.com in a day or so, its written and is just waiting for the webmaster to upload it. Its quite a story.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  29. #99
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Good news, thanks John.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  30. #100
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Very good John, thanks for the update.
    Gerard>
    Everett, WA

    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    Interestingly the Armada de Chile have recently completed a survey of kelp beds in the southern area of Chile, and as compared with 10 years back there is 60% more coverage now. That in the Armada's view has made many previously safe anchorages untenable.
    Global warming? Quite possibly. Also possible is overfishing, in either case it seems that man is the culprit.

    John Welsford
    Interesting to note that the giant kelp forests on Tasmania's east coast have all but dissapeared in the last 10 years or so. The cause is thought to be the warm waters of the East Australia Current are impacting the east coast of Tas more than in the past and this has also rought with it some invasive species that add to kelp decline.
    http://www.australiangeographic.com....ound-the-world

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    FYI: John's article has been posted on the below40 site

  33. #103
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    I turned white just reading that, with pics from Heavy Weather Sailing flashing through my mind.
    Gerard>
    Everett, WA

    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

  35. #105
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    Default Re: Southern Cross

    There is a new post on the Below 40 South website about the rescue and recovery of Southern Cross. there are some photos as well
    http://below40south.com/progress-report-10/

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