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Thread: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

  1. #51
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Excellent.

    Peace,
    Robert

  2. #52
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Glassing the housing faces.....with polyester.....think budget!



    Checking the fit of the Fam Skiff rudder wich will save time making another......but, out of the sake of interest, i will make a shallow rudder with an end plate to test, as this might get used on the larger boat. Cardboard template of the bottom shape.




    Has a 17% balance on the front , we can get away with that on the "13", not sure about the prop clearance on the 26 yet. so might not get so much balance.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Got the board housing together. My already opened tube of black stickum has suffered the usual fate of going semi-hard in the tube and required 'sardine-can' surgery to scoop out what was left.....which was more than enough to stick the housing together, but not quite enough to bed it.



    I shall let that lot go off and then probably bed the whole lot on epoxy mash, unless i find another tube of sika.

    Decided to get the bow area finished, deck support, internal fillets and some sort of paint or preserver on the wood, while i can reach it, before the planking goes on.



    In other news, i managed to drop my jigsaw due to cold fingers, which not only broke the pendulum action,but also knocked 3 teeth off my japanese pull-saw......not a good day for wood cutting tools....DOH!

  4. #54
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Recently knocked some teeth out of the cross cut side of my ryoba. Luckily I haven't gotten my 500 dollar heirloom saw, yet.
    I also say DOH, because of my hero.

    This is so much fun.

    Peace,
    Robert

  5. #55
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Last dry fit just to triple check everything will fit and slide as its supposed to. Heres the board in the vertical slot...



    And in the 12 degree offset slot below....



    I reckon the difference will be hard to determine without GPS and accurate VMG/ Leeway measurement, at least on the same tack as the board. I expect with the offset board and starboard tack the leeway drift will be noticeable, but will be interesting to find out; this is after all what this is all about.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Okay. That's it. You need a tilted board on either side. It just looks too awesome with th canted board.

    Peace,
    Robert

  7. #57
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    If anyone wants a good reason to build with ply on batten/stringer, here is a good example. The stringers obviously give a good guide to plank size and shape, so if needs be, a full sheet can be cut down to cover the plank section....and easily held in place with a couple of clamps...



    Mark off with a pencil from inside using the batten as a guide....



    Remove and cut to the top mark, replace and then scribe off the bottom. You could do both at the same time if you are 100% confident of getting it right.


  8. #58
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    I am only cutting short gains, i just need the ply to be flush at the forward face to take an oak nosing, i may make them slightly longer aft at the transom, or may not even do them at all...will need to mock that up and decide.



    The other point with ply on stringer was the ease of which butt joints/ scarfs can be done on the boat. I will just use butt blocks as the section where the planks join is relatively flat. Even if working on the 26 model, there will be no time to ever need to lift anything bigger than an 8ft x 2ft size of ply.....makes planking work on your own a far easier proposition than trying to fit a 26ft plank covered in epoxy.

  9. #59
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Oh, I'm torn about gains aft. Sometimes they look right, and sometimes they don't.

    The batten deal, though, I have considered many times. I would be concerned in an open boat the battens would become dirt and water traps, but on a boat that most probably won't have sand and water in in constantly, it would be no issue.

    Anxious to see her progress.

    Peace,
    Robert

  10. #60
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Okay. That's it. You need a tilted board on either side. It just looks too awesome with th canted board.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Ha! IF there is a performance increase and IF the 26ft gets the nod, its likely that will get a PAIR!. Its not much work to make up another box and just mount it at an angle, but there is a butt block on the planking on that side. It is more work on a boat that might have a very short life.....but we will see. Thanks for the comment, it might look kinda cool, but if the performance gain is not big, vertical box housing will take up less interior room. Two angle boards set at half depth might make excellent roll reduction though.

  11. #61
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post

    The batten deal, though, I have considered many times. I would be concerned in an open boat the battens would become dirt and water traps, but on a boat that most probably won't have sand and water in in constantly, it would be no issue.

    Anxious to see her progress.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Yeah....its weird, some people who love clinker boats, with all those lands inside, often make a comment about how battens are a rot spot waiting to happen! Its not much work to make battens drain at their lowest point, and anything with 3 coats of epoxy on it is unlikely to crumble anytime soon. I do not hesitate to use copious buckets of water to keep my Vattern Snipa clean inside, as crap down the lands is really what causes a lot of problems. I dont think battens on a glued boat are really an issue....depending on how many there are.....can be a real pain when fitting out. Pros and cons...

  12. #62
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    My life's experience leads me to believe the vertical board will work better, if only because the other way LOOKS cooler.
    Oh, but I do understand the experimental nature, and it may be my favorite feature. I like to tinker, too, you know?

    Peace,
    Robert

  13. #63
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    The warm front that was forecast actually arrived, so i grabbed the chance to epoxy-bog the daggerboard house in place, and paint the bow area before i cover it.



    Putting the unit it was a bit tricky having to work in between the stringers, the clean the fillets at the front face i had to come in from the opposite side....



    I had to remove my jacket and 2 shirts in order to squeeze in between the lower stringers, and after smoothing the job off, could not get myself back out. Seemed like my ribs were acting like pawls, and although i could squeeze my right side one rib at a time, my left side with previous 3 broken ribs was another matter.....so i found myself laughing with a boat stuck around my chest, balanced on 2 work horses on 2, 2in blocks. Not wishing to break a stringer to extract myself , the only way was to go aboard, and fortunately i still manage to keep flexible enough to get my leg up and in, though i did have to flick my boot off. This is a time i really wished i had a workshop web cam....bit of a Laurel & Hardy moment.

  14. #64
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    "bit of a Laurel & Hardy moment"

    i have had to use my cell phone a couple times to get the bridal unit to come to where i was working on various projects to extricate me from the mess i got myself into...

    that'z why it lives in my t-shirt pocket in an OTTER-BOX

    thanks for the chuckle

    sw
    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

  15. #65
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Disposable boat, and man trap?! I love it.

    Still, why are you wasting time painting this disposable boat?

    Board box looks beef, Bud. Keep it up!

    Peace,
    Robert

  16. #66
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    I think ply on batten/stringer is great. This is looking wonderful.
    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I have driven a 6.5l Dodge with diesel Cummins and it was glorious....

  17. #67
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    And while it will be above 7 degrees tonight, got both the lower forward planks glued n screwed.




    Its only old paint Rob, i have to keep reminding myself about the semi-disposable bit.....

  18. #68
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Yes, yes, yes. Lovely.

    I've got the heater going in the shop, and Christmas lights wrapped around the epoxy bottles, because I need to get one more little patch of fairing/filling gloop on my sailboat. Then I can sand that batch, and finally start painting.

    The painting isn't easy in the cold, either.

    Peace,
    Robert

  19. #69
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Sheer plank remaining only....



    Unfortunately it started snowing this afternoon, so i was forced to cover up and use a fan heater for a few hours.



    Something relaxing about only having to fit 6 planks, rather than 6+ each side. Weather not looking great for the next few days, but i can get the last planks cut even if they cannot be glued into place just yet.

  20. #70
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Last planks all cut and clamped. Some minor trimming to do. Too cold (sub zero) for glue, so will wait till the next warm front passes through in a few days, hopefully.



    I was 1in/25mm short in width on the sheet to get the last 2 planks at the bow cut, and was no way going to cut into a new sheet, so both sides in a small section are 1/2 in below the sheer stringer, no biggie and would not have been an issue without the laps.




    Some plywood butt blocks to fit, transom and most likely stick a rail around the edge before flipping it.

  21. #71
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Oh, man! I cannot WAIT to get her out of the shed and see the whole shebang.

    Looks very nice down below, too. Looks big, for a little boat, you know?

    Inspirational amount of work, here. I just love it.

    Peace,
    Robert

  22. #72
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Oh, man! I cannot WAIT to get her out of the shed and see the whole shebang.

    Looks very nice down below, too. Looks big, for a little boat, you know?

    Inspirational amount of work, here. I just love it.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Thanks Robert. Dragging the builds outta the shed for the first time is always a good moment. I have a strongback on dolly wheels from the last build, so likely set her down on that, will allow me to get it out in the open to blow of bogging dust etc. .....talking of which, a strange coincidence saw a bloke fairing off a Frolic over on Duckworks, shares your name too, weird pie eh?
    She does look a bit top heavy, but the raised sides are part of the design to aid righting....some fun thats going to be! Should be enough room to swing a hammock below the flush decks, and sitting headroom.

  23. #73
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Enjoying the thread and admiring your effort to test the concept practically!


  24. #74
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Oh, that guy on Duckworks? Yeah, don't believe a word out of his keyboard. All foma and lies, man.
    Besides, he is not nearly as handsome or funny as me.

    As to the "13", I'm not sure she looks too top heavy. The volume in a "small" boat just surprised me. I think you may have a nice little camper, there. Maybe a little counter off the case? A little canvas chair opposite, and a hammock...

    Fom the pic, the sheer looks a little more powder horn than just humpbacked reverse sheer, you know? Its a pleasing sheerline, to me.

    I think one twice this size would be lovely.

    Peace,
    Robert

  25. #75
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Quote Originally Posted by trango View Post
    Enjoying the thread and admiring your effort to test the concept practically!

    . .Much appriciated Fredrik. Not sure if the result will match the paper studies, but we will definately learn something from it, so its all good whatever happens.......as long as i dont get too wet!

  26. #76
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Robert, that geezer didnt seem to have your humour for sure, but did come across as being a bit thrifty like your good self, will have to keep an eye open. Definately a lot of volume in there for a small boat. I am also thinking about how much space i have when its doubled; its possible i might deepen the box aft a tad more to lower the engine and gain slightly more depth for tankage, but thats just a thought at present until this thing gets its speed trails.....

  27. #77
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat



    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Yeah....its weird, some people who love clinker boats, with all those lands inside, often make a comment about how battens are a rot spot waiting to happen! Its not much work to make battens drain at their lowest point, and anything with 3 coats of epoxy on it is unlikely to crumble anytime soon. I do not hesitate to use copious buckets of water to keep my Vattern Snipa clean inside, as crap down the lands is really what causes a lot of problems. I dont think battens on a glued boat are really an issue....depending on how many there are.....can be a real pain when fitting out. Pros and cons...
    Good to see the progress made since I last looked in here.
    Clinker planking regularly washed with salt water is all good for removing muck that the lands collect, and serves as an excellent wood preserver as well. Glued laps in ply and battens might do better to have epoxy fillets laid into the lands, while those number (3!) of epoxy coatings are being painted in there.
    This box keel concept is on a back-burner for me, while working out where to spend any available time and finance to best effect.

  29. #79
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Flipping the 13 inside some heavy strops....



    Put back down on trestles



    Lots of filling, fairing and sanding to do, as and when its warm enough....



    Have not decided what to do regarding the finish of this pine ply, looks like it is going to check over a period. Might just glass the keel seams and chine, but given its size, a very light cloth over the whole bottom might be a better bet.....

  30. #80
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Bottom looks very nice.

    Peace,
    Robert

  31. #81
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    This is getting good. I say no glass. Simple heavy prime job and paint.
    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I have driven a 6.5l Dodge with diesel Cummins and it was glorious....

  32. #82
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    I know it is a 'disposable' boat and on low budget. But experience in this makes me think a thin glass layer will be a good idea. Even the nice occume I bought checked.

  33. #83
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    I mention the glass just because the grain has lifted already in some places due to the damp. I have a lot of old poly resin that is way past its best, but i have already tested it by heating it through and adding a drop of acetone to thin it back out and it has bonded glass ok, i have 100 yds fabric, so this is just stuff i have laying around. I will start with the bottom, and see if the topsides get any worse. There might be a chance of it having an after-life if it looks smooth and shiney. I could primer a small section of one plank and see what happens, i certainly would not strip paint in order to glass after, except on a small test area.....i can actually try that out on the interior as that will just be primed anyway.
    Currently laminating up the bow nosing before bogging starts.

  34. #84
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Some bogging and taping going on while a respite from freezing temps....





    Polyester resin and glass tapes, polyester bog.

  35. #85
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Quite nice shape there. It will be super when smooth.
    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I have driven a 6.5l Dodge with diesel Cummins and it was glorious....

  36. #86
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    I wanted a smooth transition to bottom and side plank below the waterline to avoid end grain damage and create a smooth flow. I have kept the lap a few inches above the waterline to act as a spray deflector. Not sure if this is going to work 100% on a visual basis.....





    My elbows have decided just how much glassing im going to do, and it will be just the bottom. I cant risk putting my elbows out on a trail model. Freezing weather back on the way, so a busy next few days.

  37. #87
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Quote Originally Posted by wsgilliam View Post
    Quite nice shape there. It will be super when smooth.
    Probably wont be as smooth as i would like.....but i have just found a sack of micro-balloons that will make sanding a bit easier!

  38. #88
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    She is looking nicely.

    Peace,
    Robert

  39. #89
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    She is looking nicely.

    Peace,
    Robert

    Thanks Robert, i understand (in your words) you are quite anal about your bottom....(pun intended.)

  40. #90
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Oh. Real tears. Good gracious.

    To be fair, since I am building a boat that reportedly sails at above theoretical hull speed in the right conditions, and I am kind of building it more or less to go sail in those exact conditions, I figured I may as well make ONE smooth boat in my life.

    Actually, it just takes a long time because I fair by hand, and I wait 5-7 days for the epoxy to cure before sanding it.
    I'm priming and filling now, so the interval has shortened, slightly, between fairing bouts.

    He's sneaky guy he is, eh? Keeps dragging it out of me. More to come, I suppose.

    I really do love the shape that forefoot took.

    Peace,
    Robert

  41. #91
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    More power to your elbows Robert! Im thinking about the drag caused by a daggerboard slot, and whether a few minor hollows and bumps are going to cause as big an issue. I might put a flap over the slot. If this shape is really capable of a speed/length ratio of 1.8, then i think it will need as much help as possible to get there......though i have my doubts about that, i should at least make the effort to find its maximum.

  42. #92
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Glad to get the glass work done before new year at least...






    I wont go crazy with a mirror smooth bottom, thats hardly comparable to a boat that has been afloat for a while and has some growth on the bottom, so realistic speed/length is what im after finding, not the ultimate with a light load and a polished bottom which is not really compareable to a loaded boat ready to cruise.

    EDIT: Happy New Year!

  43. #93
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Dang you and your polyester! I tried to get my shop temp up, but I can't get it above 40 in there, and the epoxy says, "Not so much, thanks." The paint isn't even talking.

    Meh. Plenty of other stuff to do.

    Happy New Year!

    Peace,
    Robert

  44. #94
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Had some chilly weather down to minus 18 last week, so slacking a bit. Warm front passing through allow enough to get some primer-sealer on the glass and ply to 4 inches above the waterline.





    I will mark off waterlines at inch spacings to check on my calculations, which should be around 160lbs per inch of immersion at this size. Hope to be able to replicate a fully laden 26 without too many dramas.
    Sail area does not scale so well, i will make some poly sails at the size scale for visual purpose, but i might have to knock up a 75sq ft balanced lug and mizzen.......maybe....if we get more snow.

  45. #95
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    A day of +7 in January is so hard to believe i had to make the most of, and get the laps painted while it was still inverted.






    Picasa seemed to have sold out to Google and made picture management an absolute pain.....

  46. #96
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Transom blocking going in for outboard bracket mounting.



    And transom panels roughed in. Gone minus again, so too cold to glue anything in; did manage to get all the planking butt joints backed up though.


  47. #97
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Transom blocking going in for outboard bracket mounting.



    And transom panels roughed in. Gone minus again, so too cold to glue anything in; did manage to get all the planking butt joints backed up though.

    Nice work. I've done all I can on my boat until it warms a bit. I need warmer temps than I can keep in the garop for this paint. Yes, I know how lame that sounds when I'm talking 30s, and your talking 00s.
    Of course, I'm being hyper fussy about mine, not rushing through to see if it works, just to turn around and double it!

    I look forward to the day you can launch her.

    Peace,
    Robert

  48. #98
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Thanks Robert. Being held up by weather is a bit of a pain, but theres always something else to get on with, even if not preferable! Got the main mast step/box built up, need to put one in for the mizzen and an alternative main mast location for use with just the single lug main. Hoping to get the last bogging and glass work complete inside if the weather co-operates. Need to weld up a one-off outboard bracket, build 2 sails, second rudder, and decking. Lake only froze over for a short period this winter, and although it is still not too late for it all to go pear shaped ice-wise, might be lucky to get some early testing in........as long as it does not involve me getting wet.

  49. #99
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Glad you have work to do on her, anyway.

    I was working to a plan, so little figuring out on my behalf. I just did all the little stuff along the way, so all I have left is a little goop and some paint. Not even any puttering to do in the cold.

    I am truly enjoying your project come together. It seems a long time ago you were dreaming with a model, and now you're close to testing the concept... Cool.

    I'm off to stare at my dumb car and try to "design" some bits.

    Peace,
    Robert

  50. #100
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Very interesting construction method!
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

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