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Thread: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

  1. #36
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Bottom planking going on....





    No end of fun with a small boat and easily managed bits of ply.


    Although i have no intention of double planking the topsides, interesting to see it would not be an issue, especially on the larger "26", should that might be a personal option over clinker planks. I would more likely go with a single batten in the topsides and just sheet planking, i do not see an issue with 12mm ply, except right at the bow. Certainly easy with small bits, but lots more glue and fairing.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Anybody used yellow pine plywood? Im wondering on how people have finished the face, looks like it might be liable to check.
    Yet to discuss finishing treatment.....

  3. #38
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Lattice pattern for forward bottom panel.





    The transition between the box and the forward sheet is not that severe, i will fasten the sheet along the chine and base and let it 'belly' where it wants to, and likely shim/bog under the forward frame where needed. I expect to clamp both sheets in place overnight and hope not to need boiling water......gets pretty hard at the bow.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Well, there always is that slight curve to the panels...

    Very interested to see the first plank on.

    I've never used pine ply, just fir. Check, check, check.

    Peace,
    Robert

  5. #40
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    I was looking at that pine ply too. What sort of money does a sheet cost? Is it classified as exterior, or..? Did you boil a bit? Or, is the semi-disposable bit that you do not expect it to last?

    Watercraft's editor is building a Chebacca in birch ply. Good glue, but I expect it needs sheathing, as not very durable. Half decent 10mm exterior cost around 100euro here and pukka marine, more like 200 last time I looked, though that was for 10'x5".

    Enjoying your thread. After all the musing, nice to see wood cut.
    A2

  6. #41
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    BCX-YP is TUFF STUFF

    i have used it for the bottoms of several creek boats that get ruff use and as long as i filled any edge voids and kept up with paint scratches it has dunn me proud...

    1/4" and 3/8" are under $20/4x8 sheet

    if planning to sheathe it w/ glass cloth put the bad side outside, fill the divots w/ thickened pox & glass it

    on my most recent build i didn't bother glassing the bottom just filled the divots & coated the entire bottom w/ slightly thickened pox

    less than a year old now so only time will tell

    sw
    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

  7. #42
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew2 View Post
    I was looking at that pine ply too. What sort of money does a sheet cost? Is it classified as exterior, or..? Did you boil a bit? Or, is the semi-disposable bit that you do not expect it to last?


    A2
    Its about 25 quid a sheet, 7mm 5 ply. I had bought some for some small sliding panel doors, and was impressed with the quality of faces, equal veneers and not a single void in any sheet i have cut. Not sure about the glue, i have had some bits going through some wet dry cycles for the past month and its still stuck together. The 'disposable' bit comes from its expected short life as a test bed....after some data has been collected it will have served its purpose. If it kind of/sort off performs ok with a single crew, it might have a life of a couple of seasons.....if i dont overload it and sink it first.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Quote Originally Posted by swoody126 View Post
    BCX-YP is TUFF STUFF

    i have used it for the bottoms of several creek boats that get ruff use and as long as i filled any edge voids and kept up with paint scratches it has dunn me proud...

    1/4" and 3/8" are under $20/4x8 sheet

    if planning to sheathe it w/ glass cloth put the bad side outside, fill the divots w/ thickened pox & glass it

    on my most recent build i didn't bother glassing the bottom just filled the divots & coated the entire bottom w/ slightly thickened pox

    less than a year old now so only time will tell

    sw
    thanks Swoody. Both faces are really good on all the sheets i have bought, some fancy dutchman on a few panels, but no filler.....im not sure why the birch was almost 3 times the price. Likely to have the bottom taped and sheathed with a light cloth, probably just paint on the topsides.
    Actually managed to pull those sheets in at the bow without wetting and no nasty sounds....hope to find them still in one bit in the morning.




    Thanks Sw

  9. #44
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Well, there always is that slight curve to the panels...

    Very interested to see the first plank on.

    I've never used pine ply, just fir. Check, check, check.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Quite a belly up front, prefer to leave the wood in the shape it wants to take rather than force it to the frames, more strength in a curve anyway....still looks good.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Bottom panels on....i quite like the way the panels have developed in shape, will need something behind the frames to fill the belly. might even stick a small stringer in there forward.



    I have to work out how long i want to cut the gains in, then get the lower plank on. I will then think about turning it over to glass before fitting the other planks.......depending on what the weather decides.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Ooh. I think that looks nice. I think you always have to shim out ply at the forward frames, don't you. Ply always take the curve it will take, and if you force it, it gets ugly.

    Very exciting!

    Peace,
    Robert

  12. #47
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Well. i guess if you work out the conic projection on the lofting before you cut your frames you would not need to shim. In this case my lofting was a drawing 1 1/2in to the foot. Heres the gap, nothing to stress about.



    And while i was thinking about it, for ease of access, i will make up the dagger box housing, a few angles at play here. This is making a template for the forward dagger box face, which will also serve as a large gusset for the frame.



    I really wanted the board to exit close to the chine as possible, but i might have to re-think that as i might not get the board free with the side decking, at least vertically, at 12 degree its not an issue.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Cold weather holding me up. Only small stuff i can bring in the house to set up. Have the daggerboard housing components made up and dry fitted.



    The oak triangle will be the face on both ends of the housing for the board to run on. The bolted oak guide will hold the board in the vertical or angle position.



    Dry fit before cutting hole in bottom.



    Hull side face of housing and why its a good idea to fit it now before planking!

  14. #49
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    There will be top and bottom bearers to fit also....



    The ply sides will run just short of the bottom, so a layer of bog can protect the end grain, just a dry fit so yet to be trimmed, same as below....



    It will all get dismantled and the inside faces of the plywood will get sheathed. I think i have an open tube of sikaflex lying around, so will probably assemble the whole shebang with that and screw it in place.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat



    Missing picture.....

  16. #51
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Excellent.

    Peace,
    Robert

  17. #52
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Glassing the housing faces.....with polyester.....think budget!



    Checking the fit of the Fam Skiff rudder wich will save time making another......but, out of the sake of interest, i will make a shallow rudder with an end plate to test, as this might get used on the larger boat. Cardboard template of the bottom shape.




    Has a 17% balance on the front , we can get away with that on the "13", not sure about the prop clearance on the 26 yet. so might not get so much balance.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Got the board housing together. My already opened tube of black stickum has suffered the usual fate of going semi-hard in the tube and required 'sardine-can' surgery to scoop out what was left.....which was more than enough to stick the housing together, but not quite enough to bed it.



    I shall let that lot go off and then probably bed the whole lot on epoxy mash, unless i find another tube of sika.

    Decided to get the bow area finished, deck support, internal fillets and some sort of paint or preserver on the wood, while i can reach it, before the planking goes on.



    In other news, i managed to drop my jigsaw due to cold fingers, which not only broke the pendulum action,but also knocked 3 teeth off my japanese pull-saw......not a good day for wood cutting tools....DOH!

  19. #54
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Recently knocked some teeth out of the cross cut side of my ryoba. Luckily I haven't gotten my 500 dollar heirloom saw, yet.
    I also say DOH, because of my hero.

    This is so much fun.

    Peace,
    Robert

  20. #55
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Last dry fit just to triple check everything will fit and slide as its supposed to. Heres the board in the vertical slot...



    And in the 12 degree offset slot below....



    I reckon the difference will be hard to determine without GPS and accurate VMG/ Leeway measurement, at least on the same tack as the board. I expect with the offset board and starboard tack the leeway drift will be noticeable, but will be interesting to find out; this is after all what this is all about.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Okay. That's it. You need a tilted board on either side. It just looks too awesome with th canted board.

    Peace,
    Robert

  22. #57
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    If anyone wants a good reason to build with ply on batten/stringer, here is a good example. The stringers obviously give a good guide to plank size and shape, so if needs be, a full sheet can be cut down to cover the plank section....and easily held in place with a couple of clamps...



    Mark off with a pencil from inside using the batten as a guide....



    Remove and cut to the top mark, replace and then scribe off the bottom. You could do both at the same time if you are 100% confident of getting it right.


  23. #58
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    I am only cutting short gains, i just need the ply to be flush at the forward face to take an oak nosing, i may make them slightly longer aft at the transom, or may not even do them at all...will need to mock that up and decide.



    The other point with ply on stringer was the ease of which butt joints/ scarfs can be done on the boat. I will just use butt blocks as the section where the planks join is relatively flat. Even if working on the 26 model, there will be no time to ever need to lift anything bigger than an 8ft x 2ft size of ply.....makes planking work on your own a far easier proposition than trying to fit a 26ft plank covered in epoxy.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Oh, I'm torn about gains aft. Sometimes they look right, and sometimes they don't.

    The batten deal, though, I have considered many times. I would be concerned in an open boat the battens would become dirt and water traps, but on a boat that most probably won't have sand and water in in constantly, it would be no issue.

    Anxious to see her progress.

    Peace,
    Robert

  25. #60
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Okay. That's it. You need a tilted board on either side. It just looks too awesome with th canted board.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Ha! IF there is a performance increase and IF the 26ft gets the nod, its likely that will get a PAIR!. Its not much work to make up another box and just mount it at an angle, but there is a butt block on the planking on that side. It is more work on a boat that might have a very short life.....but we will see. Thanks for the comment, it might look kinda cool, but if the performance gain is not big, vertical box housing will take up less interior room. Two angle boards set at half depth might make excellent roll reduction though.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post

    The batten deal, though, I have considered many times. I would be concerned in an open boat the battens would become dirt and water traps, but on a boat that most probably won't have sand and water in in constantly, it would be no issue.

    Anxious to see her progress.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Yeah....its weird, some people who love clinker boats, with all those lands inside, often make a comment about how battens are a rot spot waiting to happen! Its not much work to make battens drain at their lowest point, and anything with 3 coats of epoxy on it is unlikely to crumble anytime soon. I do not hesitate to use copious buckets of water to keep my Vattern Snipa clean inside, as crap down the lands is really what causes a lot of problems. I dont think battens on a glued boat are really an issue....depending on how many there are.....can be a real pain when fitting out. Pros and cons...

  27. #62
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    My life's experience leads me to believe the vertical board will work better, if only because the other way LOOKS cooler.
    Oh, but I do understand the experimental nature, and it may be my favorite feature. I like to tinker, too, you know?

    Peace,
    Robert

  28. #63
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    The warm front that was forecast actually arrived, so i grabbed the chance to epoxy-bog the daggerboard house in place, and paint the bow area before i cover it.



    Putting the unit it was a bit tricky having to work in between the stringers, the clean the fillets at the front face i had to come in from the opposite side....



    I had to remove my jacket and 2 shirts in order to squeeze in between the lower stringers, and after smoothing the job off, could not get myself back out. Seemed like my ribs were acting like pawls, and although i could squeeze my right side one rib at a time, my left side with previous 3 broken ribs was another matter.....so i found myself laughing with a boat stuck around my chest, balanced on 2 work horses on 2, 2in blocks. Not wishing to break a stringer to extract myself , the only way was to go aboard, and fortunately i still manage to keep flexible enough to get my leg up and in, though i did have to flick my boot off. This is a time i really wished i had a workshop web cam....bit of a Laurel & Hardy moment.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    "bit of a Laurel & Hardy moment"

    i have had to use my cell phone a couple times to get the bridal unit to come to where i was working on various projects to extricate me from the mess i got myself into...

    that'z why it lives in my t-shirt pocket in an OTTER-BOX

    thanks for the chuckle

    sw
    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

  30. #65
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Disposable boat, and man trap?! I love it.

    Still, why are you wasting time painting this disposable boat?

    Board box looks beef, Bud. Keep it up!

    Peace,
    Robert

  31. #66
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    I think ply on batten/stringer is great. This is looking wonderful.
    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I have driven a 6.5l Dodge with diesel Cummins and it was glorious....

  32. #67
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    And while it will be above 7 degrees tonight, got both the lower forward planks glued n screwed.




    Its only old paint Rob, i have to keep reminding myself about the semi-disposable bit.....

  33. #68
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Yes, yes, yes. Lovely.

    I've got the heater going in the shop, and Christmas lights wrapped around the epoxy bottles, because I need to get one more little patch of fairing/filling gloop on my sailboat. Then I can sand that batch, and finally start painting.

    The painting isn't easy in the cold, either.

    Peace,
    Robert

  34. #69
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Sheer plank remaining only....



    Unfortunately it started snowing this afternoon, so i was forced to cover up and use a fan heater for a few hours.



    Something relaxing about only having to fit 6 planks, rather than 6+ each side. Weather not looking great for the next few days, but i can get the last planks cut even if they cannot be glued into place just yet.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: The "13", a semi-disposable box keel boat

    Last planks all cut and clamped. Some minor trimming to do. Too cold (sub zero) for glue, so will wait till the next warm front passes through in a few days, hopefully.



    I was 1in/25mm short in width on the sheet to get the last 2 planks at the bow cut, and was no way going to cut into a new sheet, so both sides in a small section are 1/2 in below the sheer stringer, no biggie and would not have been an issue without the laps.




    Some plywood butt blocks to fit, transom and most likely stick a rail around the edge before flipping it.

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