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Thread: Residential cabinet building questions

  1. #1
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    Default Residential cabinet building questions

    Altho I've done a lot of various woodworking, it has been a long time since I've built any residential cabinets. I now have two small wall hung cabinets to build for the house and I'm woefully out of date on materials and techniques. So my first question is regarding materials. She wants black interiors. I don't think I want to build these out of particle board, so is there such a thing as black plywood cabinet liner? Or will I need to laminate my own?

    Second question is, am I correct in assuming I can just build the boxes with 3/4" ply with butt joints and biscuits? (One cabinet is about 32" x 16", the other is about 5' x 16". Both are about 24" tall and wall hung, both have a corner wall at the left end. There will be doors only, no drawers.)

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    I'll not comment about the joinery as it is not my thing, nor do I know how heavy or precious the contents are going to be. Duncan, who is a joiner says biscuits are OK if there is not to be much weight stored therein, especially if the doors are set into a face frame. Cutting dado grooves and half lapping into them like a drawer bottom would be better.
    However as you are planning to build out of ply, why not just stain the inside black, in effect ebonising it.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    I have biscuits and joiner, collecting dust. I've graduated to pocket screws Ron. Can't beat em! For 2 boxes, paint would be
    my choice.

    what about the doors? I avoided Euro type hinges for years now I'd not use anything else! Exclusion being the full inset type are expensive. my ash vanity front.


    and the back the stick was temporary until it was put on the box.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    I'd use biscuits and glue and birch plywood.
    Kreg screws are great except that Ron will have two finished surfaces and no good way to hide the holes.
    If they were painted,I'd skip the biscuits and just use glue and screws.
    I would also inset a 3/4" back(where pocket screws would be handy) and use it to hang the cabinet from.
    The back gets inset about 1/4" to accommodate waves in the drywall and the screws used for hanging get covered up by a narrow moulding along the top and bottom.

    Denise
    I haven't found that inset euro hinges cost much more from my supplier.

    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    the type I used there were pricey. home centers don't even sell full inset blum, Rockler had them, I got em from amazon.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    Thanks all. I'm having to rethink the materials. I thought black surfaced plywood might be available but I guess not. I suppose I can laminate my own, but maybe I'll discuss some other options with her. I really don't want to get into having to stain and finish a lot of wood surfaces. I do enough of that on the boat.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    Black panel product IS available. Either 1-sided or 2-sided. Ask the supplier for 3/4" black melamine for the carcase, and 1/4", or 1/2" for the back. With 1/2" - you can skip adding (and finishing) solid lumber top & bottom nailer strips. Or you can paint them black when you're done. Or you can get sheets of veneer-core plywood with an ebonized face sheet. Or black plastic laminate (vertical grade, preferably) over veneer-core plywood.

    What will the exteriors be like? Finish? What style of doors? Face-frame, or euro-style?
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    I can buy coloured/textured melamine from several wholesalers,so there should be a couple out your way.
    http://www.tafisa.ca/decorative-panels.
    It has a particle core, as opposed to veneer core,but it's decent stuff.
    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Williamson View Post
    I can buy coloured/textured melamine from several wholesalers,so there should be a couple out your way.
    http://www.tafisa.ca/decorative-panels.
    It has a particle core, as opposed to veneer core,but it's decent stuff.
    R
    I don't know what your thought/objection to p.b. is - but melamine is on an industrial p.b. core. Not at all the same crapt you'll find at the big box, or even the lumberyard. Denser, stronger.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    (Heel of hand to forehead), of course it exists. I just realized half of our kitchen cabinets are black double faced melamine interiors. I fell into the trap of believing the first guy I talked to at the local lumber store. I'm sure it can't be that hard to find in Seattle. Tomorrow's task.

    Oh, probably euro style hinges, solid wood framed panel doors. Not sure yet. I'm probably going to be stuck with some staining and finishing whether I like it or not.
    Last edited by ron ll; 10-17-2016 at 07:57 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    I don't know what your thought/objection to p.b. is - but melamine is on an industrial p.b. core. Not at all the same crapt you'll find at the big box, or even the lumberyard. Denser, stronger.
    Igzackly
    I've spent hours over the last three decades attempting to convince customers that industrial melamine is VERY much better than the stinky retail crap.
    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    Black inside a cabinet really is awful unless you have full bright lighting
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    If you end up using the melamine then you can have your choice of pocket screws, biscuits, Domino tennon things if you have such an animal, or confirmat screws. Confirmats are pricy but quite strong. You'll need the step drill that is made for them.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    I don't know what your thought/objection to p.b. is - but melamine is on an industrial p.b. core. Not at all the same crapt you'll find at the big box, or even the lumberyard. Denser, stronger.
    I didn't know that. I was expecting IKEA grade crap. Glad I asked.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    I've got a pretty good book on cabinet construction. The slightly older edition of this: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/b...inetmaker.aspx. Plus a biscuit joiner.

    I'm just a few blocks down from you (66th & 32nd). You're welcome to borrow them any time.

    I always thought a nice way to do cabinets would be biscuits with sheetrock screws to clamp it together. Maybe use epoxy instead of titebond so you don't have to hustle to get it all together. Once the glue sets, pull the screws and set Miller dowels where the screws were to make it look tasty.

    Crosscut stocks prefinished cabinet ply. So does Edensaw. And Edensaw has white apparently: http://www.edensaw.com/MainSite/Stor...ctDetail/31537. And I'm sure Compton carries prefinished ply as well. Dunno about black. That might be a special order or finish the sheets yourself before breaking them down.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Thanks for the offer. I already have a biscuit joiner, and I probably should buy the book. If I can't find it, I may take you up on it. Might be a chance to put a face to a name.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    If you have to have plywood , get 11/16" plywood from one of the big supplies Arch Woods , International Plywood , Continental Hardwoods , and some vertical grade plastic laminate. You can have it laid up for you , I doubt they'd do one sheet , with that piddily lil project you are doing , canvas the locate cabinet shops first , some one will have a 1/2 sheet of black vertical grade plywood in their plywood storage box , if you are lucky.
    Black melamine will be easier to come by for sure , and will work for the project you are talking about.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Black inside a cabinet really is awful unless you have full bright lighting
    Depends on the use. In this case I think it will be fine. We have several kitchen cabinets with glass doors and black interiors and it really makes glassware and crystal sparkle. These won't have glass doors but they are special use which makes black appropriate.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    Altho I've done a lot of various woodworking, it has been a long time since I've built any residential cabinets. I now have two small wall hung cabinets to build for the house and I'm woefully out of date on materials and techniques. So my first question is regarding materials. She wants black interiors. I don't think I want to build these out of particle board, so is there such a thing as black plywood cabinet liner? Or will I need to laminate my own?

    Second question is, am I correct in assuming I can just build the boxes with 3/4" ply with butt joints and biscuits? (One cabinet is about 32" x 16", the other is about 5' x 16". Both are about 24" tall and wall hung, both have a corner wall at the left end. There will be doors only, no drawers.)
    Use butt joints and screws , use a applied finish end panel screwed on from inside the cabinet . You can create a "flush inset " door look very easily with this method.



    %5BURL=http://s21.photobucket.com/user/PEG688/media/Aug292009AAelectric9.jpg.html%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Aug292009AAelectric9.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5D

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Girouard View Post
    Use butt joints and screws , use a applied finish end panel screwed on from inside the cabinet . You can create a "flush inset " door look very easily with this method.



    %5BURL=http://s21.photobucket.com/user/PEG688/media/Aug292009AAelectric9.jpg.html%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/Aug292009AAelectric9.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5D
    Thanks Paul, but I can't see your Photobucket pic nor can I copy the link. Any chance you could try it again?
    thanks.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    Thanks Paul, but I can't see your Photobucket pic nor can I copy the link. Any chance you could try it again?
    thanks.
    I posted that from my I pad , the last update really screwed up posting photo's to the forum! So much easier on Face Book , than here, but sure I'll use the laptop to post what I have for applied end panel construction .

    This isn't the photo I tried to post , but it's a applied finish end panel on a case with euro hinges, full over lay finish end panel gap 8 MM IIRC hinge plates .




    Think of this flush scribe as a F/E panel .
    It works:



    Same cabinet installed a flush inset look , without the PITA of knife hinges :


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    This is the same concept , build a box , add the outside finish look you want to achieve :



    Plywood cases with applied F/E panels :


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    Build case , apply F/E Panel:




  23. #23
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    Pro cabinet makers who churn out kitchens and laundries use MDF and faced chipboard because it is flat and stable compared to ply, not to mention the price difference. Like Paul said, use butt joints and screws. Save yourself money and time on the boxes and put it back into the bits you will touch and see.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    Paul, thanks for posting the picures. Nice work and helpful info. And thanks all for the info, I'm narrowing down my choices.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Residential cabinet building questions

    Also surprised with the quality of these cabinets.
    Looking better and more sturdy than any IKEA product.
    _____________________________________________
    Alexandra from Residential lamination

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