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Thread: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

  1. #386
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
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    Northern NSW Australia
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    61,449

    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    Hot cast iron is brittle stuff, if it fails it fails dramatically.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  2. #387
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Central Mass.
    Posts
    274

    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    Wood stoves seem to hold together pretty well, even when glowing cherry red. I've also taken a sledge hammer to a few cast iron bathtubs. They didn't give up easily.

    Here is a link to somebody who used the bathtub method and lived to tell about it.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=eZ...pardey&f=false

  3. #388
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
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    Northern NSW Australia
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    61,449

    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    Heat a piece of iron to red heat and try to bend it. Now do the same with a bit of steel. Draw conclusions.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  4. #389
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Granby, Massachusetts
    Posts
    146

    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    I for one will be so happy when this part of the build is done. I really don't like messing with this much weight and heat but alas I do not have $30,000 to have a foundry do the pour.

    I appreciate all the concern, advice and such. No need to think you are intruding or trying to tell me what to do, at the end of the day I will make my own decision but the more info the better. This is not something I have experience with and the consequences could be dire.

    We are busting up the Pearson 28' on Wednesday in Central Massachusetts. If anyone needs/ wants parts from that boat let me know. To my understanding it has masts, sails, rigging, head, 4 cylinder gas motor.... All we really want is the lead, the rest is up for grabs.

    We are picking up a 200 gallon air compressor tank on Saturday. The guy said it was set up with an automatic drain so water never sat in it and there is a valve or something that opens and he said the inside is totally clean and solid. If that is the case we are going to part with the $300 and get it. I like the fact that it was made to function daily with around 200 PSI in it and it is made of steel. I crunched the numbers and we should have around 100 gallons worth of lead so the tank will only be 1/2 full which should be fine.

    I agree with Peter about the cast iron, I have broken up a few tubs and a couple cast iron stoves and sometimes they are tough as nails but I have had a couple where one good whack sends it all splintering apart. The heat combined with the pressure worries me, like peter said if it fails it would likely fail catastrophically. It would also mean multiple pipes, fires.... More parts = more that can go wrong. I really only want to do this once, simple and solid is the goal.

    Once I have the new tank I will figure out the support for it. If I do make a base out of heavy steel beams it will cost a significant amount of cash unless I use used beams but then they will be rusty and suspect. We have already spent a lot on the tank that did not work and the steel base that is too light, it really sucks to spend so much cash on something we will use once and get pennies for at the scrap yard. At the same time dying, getting injured, picking up the lead from the ground and doing it again would also suck so I find myself between a rock and a hard place.

    I do feel good about the mold. The plug has sat in there for almost two weeks, we will pull it out this weekend and it will have at least another two weeks to air out, we will certainly hit it with the flame weeder and get it all toasty warm before we drop the lead in. We want the concrete to dry as slowly and thoroughly as possible, which it seems to be doing nicely.

    I will use the biggest pipe I can for the outlet of the tank, 3 or 4" pipe would be ideal in my mind, I am no too worried about that part. It's the support for the tank that is keeping me up at night.
    ACORN TO ARABELLA
    For additional info on this project:

    www.acorntoarabella.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAi...WB1xCp6uuUo0VA

  5. #390
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    I'm SO glad you've found a good steel melt container ! As is obvious, I don't trust hot cast iron .

    Here's picture of me just starting to let the lead out of my pot into the mould, the outlet is 2'' and the channel is a bit of 6'' steel C section. It was ideal as it was easy to check on and no blockages formed. This pour was 5400 pounds. I couldn't fit all the 5400# into the melting pot so put around 1000# in ingots into the mould then overheated the lead in the pot a little. The excess heat was sufficient to melt the ingots into one mass .
    You can just make out the ingots in the photo.

    I know it worked perfectly because shortly after this my daughter had a stroke and landed in intensive care. She's disabled but OK now. The result of all this is that the 32 foot cutter I had begun was dismantled, the wood sold off and the lead keel chainsawed up so I could give some away and shift it out of my shed.

    The chainsawing gave me an opportunity to check the lead pour for cracks or signs of a poor bond. It was fine, solid everywhere.

    Good Luck, take care.

    Last edited by PeterSibley; 07-07-2017 at 07:16 AM.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  6. #391
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    PNW, an island west of Seattle
    Posts
    1,147

    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    Your concrete mold gives me the willies. With the plug in place, no drying will occur. That is actually a good thing because a wet cure results in stronger concrete. But a two week cure really isn't sufficient to achieve full strength. How strong will it be? That depends on your mix. Will it be strong enough? That depends... A two week drying time will not really be sufficient to dry it. The hot lead could be a rather rude introduction to the mold.

    You might want to consider melting a small batch of lead and do a test pour. Just to see what happens to the concrete.

    Out of curiosity, what sort of concrete mix did you use? Personally, I wouldn't use concrete at all. Rather an investment of plaster, sand, and grog (old ground up investment or fired clay). The investment would be contained in a sufficiently strong wood or steel box structure.

    Jeff

  7. #392
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Shubenacadie NS
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    3,591

    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    I can't envision anybody pouring a keel of any substance and not burying the mould in the ground. A berm around the pouring setup to include the keel, fire etc and sufficiently high to contain all the lead if the worst were to happen would be in my plans also. Just a thought. Looking forward to seeing how you do this as I hope to have a large keel pour in my future as well.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  8. #393
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Granby, Massachusetts
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    146

    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    We picked up the air compressor tank today. It's made of cast iron but I have faith it will do what we need it to do, its made to work day in and day out at 175 PSI, it seems solid enough. Now just gotta figure out how to support the weight of it and 5 tons of lead.
    ACORN TO ARABELLA
    For additional info on this project:

    www.acorntoarabella.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAi...WB1xCp6uuUo0VA

  9. #394
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    A silly question but are you sure it's cast iron? Those welds look very good for cast iron and I've never seen a cast iron compressor cylinder.

    It looks great !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  10. #395
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Granby, Massachusetts
    Posts
    146

    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    It says cast iron on the side of it. I'll know for sure when I take the grinder to it.
    ACORN TO ARABELLA
    For additional info on this project:

    www.acorntoarabella.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAi...WB1xCp6uuUo0VA

  11. #396
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    25

    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    They might be talking about the body of the compressor itself. My money says that is a steel tank.
    Regarding pouring molten lead into a concrete mold can be EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. Concrete sets a the result of a chemical process called "hydration". The portland cement combines with water, give off a little heat and becomes hard. At the time of the initial set of the concrete, there is quite a bit of "free" water in the concrete. Over time, some of that water combines with the portland cement, as the concrete reaches its design strength. Some of the water evaporates, but there is free water in the mix for a long time (months) after the initial set. When molten lead hits that recently placed concrete, that free water will turn instantly to steam, cause bubbling and spashing on the lead and probably will fracture the mold.
    I tried this with sterling silver when I was in college and, fortunately no one was hurt. It did, however scare the living' crap our of me. After that, I used foundry sand for casting, regardless of the metal. Good luck and be safe.

  12. #397
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    se pa (Bristol PA)
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    1,613

    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)




    slim pickins....

    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  13. #398
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Sound Beach, NY
    Posts
    3,074

    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    I have not melted or poured lead.
    I have made small parts of brass poured into plaster lost wax molds. I baked those molds over a hot fire before pouring to cook out any water. Before you pour hot lead into a concrete mold, perhaps build a hot fire inside the mold, keep it burning until the outside of the mold is over 212 for a while. That should help remove water. The heat will stay in the mold better if you cover the fire, of course allowing air in and smoke out.

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