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Thread: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

  1. #386
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    Hot cast iron is brittle stuff, if it fails it fails dramatically.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  2. #387
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    Wood stoves seem to hold together pretty well, even when glowing cherry red. I've also taken a sledge hammer to a few cast iron bathtubs. They didn't give up easily.

    Here is a link to somebody who used the bathtub method and lived to tell about it.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=eZ...pardey&f=false

  3. #388
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    Heat a piece of iron to red heat and try to bend it. Now do the same with a bit of steel. Draw conclusions.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  4. #389
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    I for one will be so happy when this part of the build is done. I really don't like messing with this much weight and heat but alas I do not have $30,000 to have a foundry do the pour.

    I appreciate all the concern, advice and such. No need to think you are intruding or trying to tell me what to do, at the end of the day I will make my own decision but the more info the better. This is not something I have experience with and the consequences could be dire.

    We are busting up the Pearson 28' on Wednesday in Central Massachusetts. If anyone needs/ wants parts from that boat let me know. To my understanding it has masts, sails, rigging, head, 4 cylinder gas motor.... All we really want is the lead, the rest is up for grabs.

    We are picking up a 200 gallon air compressor tank on Saturday. The guy said it was set up with an automatic drain so water never sat in it and there is a valve or something that opens and he said the inside is totally clean and solid. If that is the case we are going to part with the $300 and get it. I like the fact that it was made to function daily with around 200 PSI in it and it is made of steel. I crunched the numbers and we should have around 100 gallons worth of lead so the tank will only be 1/2 full which should be fine.

    I agree with Peter about the cast iron, I have broken up a few tubs and a couple cast iron stoves and sometimes they are tough as nails but I have had a couple where one good whack sends it all splintering apart. The heat combined with the pressure worries me, like peter said if it fails it would likely fail catastrophically. It would also mean multiple pipes, fires.... More parts = more that can go wrong. I really only want to do this once, simple and solid is the goal.

    Once I have the new tank I will figure out the support for it. If I do make a base out of heavy steel beams it will cost a significant amount of cash unless I use used beams but then they will be rusty and suspect. We have already spent a lot on the tank that did not work and the steel base that is too light, it really sucks to spend so much cash on something we will use once and get pennies for at the scrap yard. At the same time dying, getting injured, picking up the lead from the ground and doing it again would also suck so I find myself between a rock and a hard place.

    I do feel good about the mold. The plug has sat in there for almost two weeks, we will pull it out this weekend and it will have at least another two weeks to air out, we will certainly hit it with the flame weeder and get it all toasty warm before we drop the lead in. We want the concrete to dry as slowly and thoroughly as possible, which it seems to be doing nicely.

    I will use the biggest pipe I can for the outlet of the tank, 3 or 4" pipe would be ideal in my mind, I am no too worried about that part. It's the support for the tank that is keeping me up at night.
    ACORN TO ARABELLA
    For additional info on this project:

    www.acorntoarabella.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAi...WB1xCp6uuUo0VA

  5. #390
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    I'm SO glad you've found a good steel melt container ! As is obvious, I don't trust hot cast iron .

    Here's picture of me just starting to let the lead out of my pot into the mould, the outlet is 2'' and the channel is a bit of 6'' steel C section. It was ideal as it was easy to check on and no blockages formed. This pour was 5400 pounds. I couldn't fit all the 5400# into the melting pot so put around 1000# in ingots into the mould then overheated the lead in the pot a little. The excess heat was sufficient to melt the ingots into one mass .
    You can just make out the ingots in the photo.

    I know it worked perfectly because shortly after this my daughter had a stroke and landed in intensive care. She's disabled but OK now. The result of all this is that the 32 foot cutter I had begun was dismantled, the wood sold off and the lead keel chainsawed up so I could give some away and shift it out of my shed.

    The chainsawing gave me an opportunity to check the lead pour for cracks or signs of a poor bond. It was fine, solid everywhere.

    Good Luck, take care.

    Last edited by PeterSibley; 07-07-2017 at 07:16 AM.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  6. #391
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    Your concrete mold gives me the willies. With the plug in place, no drying will occur. That is actually a good thing because a wet cure results in stronger concrete. But a two week cure really isn't sufficient to achieve full strength. How strong will it be? That depends on your mix. Will it be strong enough? That depends... A two week drying time will not really be sufficient to dry it. The hot lead could be a rather rude introduction to the mold.

    You might want to consider melting a small batch of lead and do a test pour. Just to see what happens to the concrete.

    Out of curiosity, what sort of concrete mix did you use? Personally, I wouldn't use concrete at all. Rather an investment of plaster, sand, and grog (old ground up investment or fired clay). The investment would be contained in a sufficiently strong wood or steel box structure.

    Jeff

  7. #392
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    I can't envision anybody pouring a keel of any substance and not burying the mould in the ground. A berm around the pouring setup to include the keel, fire etc and sufficiently high to contain all the lead if the worst were to happen would be in my plans also. Just a thought. Looking forward to seeing how you do this as I hope to have a large keel pour in my future as well.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  8. #393
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    We picked up the air compressor tank today. It's made of cast iron but I have faith it will do what we need it to do, its made to work day in and day out at 175 PSI, it seems solid enough. Now just gotta figure out how to support the weight of it and 5 tons of lead.
    ACORN TO ARABELLA
    For additional info on this project:

    www.acorntoarabella.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAi...WB1xCp6uuUo0VA

  9. #394
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    A silly question but are you sure it's cast iron? Those welds look very good for cast iron and I've never seen a cast iron compressor cylinder.

    It looks great !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  10. #395
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    It says cast iron on the side of it. I'll know for sure when I take the grinder to it.
    ACORN TO ARABELLA
    For additional info on this project:

    www.acorntoarabella.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAi...WB1xCp6uuUo0VA

  11. #396
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    They might be talking about the body of the compressor itself. My money says that is a steel tank.
    Regarding pouring molten lead into a concrete mold can be EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. Concrete sets a the result of a chemical process called "hydration". The portland cement combines with water, give off a little heat and becomes hard. At the time of the initial set of the concrete, there is quite a bit of "free" water in the concrete. Over time, some of that water combines with the portland cement, as the concrete reaches its design strength. Some of the water evaporates, but there is free water in the mix for a long time (months) after the initial set. When molten lead hits that recently placed concrete, that free water will turn instantly to steam, cause bubbling and spashing on the lead and probably will fracture the mold.
    I tried this with sterling silver when I was in college and, fortunately no one was hurt. It did, however scare the living' crap our of me. After that, I used foundry sand for casting, regardless of the metal. Good luck and be safe.

  12. #397
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)




    slim pickins....

    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  13. #398
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    I have not melted or poured lead.
    I have made small parts of brass poured into plaster lost wax molds. I baked those molds over a hot fire before pouring to cook out any water. Before you pour hot lead into a concrete mold, perhaps build a hot fire inside the mold, keep it burning until the outside of the mold is over 212 for a while. That should help remove water. The heat will stay in the mold better if you cover the fire, of course allowing air in and smoke out.

  14. #399
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    Seems I have been neglecting my build thread!

    I will post some more pics later but here is the hit list.

    We rough shaped the keel timber. We finished some with a hand saw because the off-cuts were worth saving, the rest got kerfed with the chainsaw, rough shaped with the ax and finished with the adze. The timber is 1" thicker, 2" wider and 12" longer than is needed, final shaping will come after it sits for a bit and then is flattened and brought to final thickness.

    We cut up a 28' Pearson and put it in a dumpster in one day. It was a living hell. BUT... we got a lot of lead, 2 old sails (currently being used as sun shades in the boat house), an aluminum mast, 6 big boat stands, a 4 cylinder motor (needs a home if anyone could use it), and 2- 5 gallon buckets full of bronze parts. The whole boat was decked out in bronze, we took every scrap of it. So it was worth the misery.

    We got a few more lead donations including 75# of huge wheel weights from a buddy in Louisiana! The USPS must LOVE us!!! haha Cost $18 to ship in a flat rate box. With the donations and the Pearson's keel we have at least 9,000 lbs and I am quite positive we are within spitting distance of 10,000 lbs maybe even a little more. We are slowly chainsawing the keels down to size and weighing them. My old Stihl Farm Boss is bucking up the lead nicely.

    I also went North to guide in the mountains for a week to make some extra $$ The ankle handled a week of non-stop multi-pitch guiding with nary a complaint. Feels good to be functional again!

    And we had 45 students come from a local school for a field trip! They were studying the engineering process, buoyancy, density and scale drawings. They were here for about an hour and half learning about our project and how what they are learning in school can be applicable to life.

    Next on the hit list is a little gluing for the back bone assembly while the weather is warm and then it will be back to messing around with the lead.



    Top of Pinnacle Buttress on the way to the summit. Took two teenage girls up this 7 pitch rock route on the side of a mountain, it was awesome.



    Finishing with a handsaw, could not bear the thought of throwing all that beautiful wood into the wood stove. I think the biggest one is large enough for the inside stern timber.




    Almost completely roughed out keel timber. We might end up with a little bit of the pith but it tapers through the log so by the time we thickness it and lop the end off I am hoping it will all be gone. If not it won't be much and will be against the lead keel with 9.5" of solid timber above it.





    Offcut from the butt of the log. That is a full sized framing square.
    ACORN TO ARABELLA
    For additional info on this project:

    www.acorntoarabella.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAi...WB1xCp6uuUo0VA

  15. #400
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    Good to see you posting again and good to see your progress !

    That keel timber is a lovely piece of wood !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  16. #401
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    wow nice chunk of wood there. that's how to build a boat, don't build the whole boat at once, build each piece, a piece, a well made timber or frame is a thing of beauty and a sense of accomplishment.

    here's where I was at a year ago. Aug 15 2016.

    and a couple weeks ago!


    you guys should consider taking a day or two and coming out to Gloucester for the Schooner Races, Labor Day weekend.

  17. #402
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    You got a lot done in a year! Congrats! She looks great!

    The Schooner Races do sound like a good time!

    I have a couple friends on the Vineyard that have been asking us to come visit all summer. Might be a good good two for one deal but September is filling up and weekends are precious. So we will see....

    We will for sure be up in Bucksport Maine the end of the month for the IMFF
    Hope to cross paths with some of ya then!

    We are certainly building one piece at a time (all we have time for these days =( ) and the keel timber is indeed a gorgeous hunk of oak. I even managed to get both the stern and the stem knees from the off-cuts! I have to glue on a tiny little nose piece to each but that's no big deal. I still have some big chunks left over from the keel timber/knee off-cuts to use later, the wood is so clear and tight I can't get rid of any sizable piece in good conscious.

    It's nice having the monster band saw, I can just toss up a 8"x11"x3' hunk of oak and slice it just about any way I want. Fricken Glorious! =)
    ACORN TO ARABELLA
    For additional info on this project:

    www.acorntoarabella.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAi...WB1xCp6uuUo0VA

  18. #403
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    Started gluing up the timbers for the backbone. I am using Aerodux 185, seems to be going well so far.

    Did a couple test glue ups and even without clamping pressure both the starved and flooded joints took multiple hammer blows to separate. The wood failed with the starved joints and the glue failed with the flooded joints, both took a beating to separate though. Feeling confident about the glue up, it will all be thru bolted when assembled anyways.

    This one is 2 1/4" thick slabs that will become part of the stem. I know a couple of the joints are not totally perfect on this end, they will land outside of the finished timber and be cut off later. Everything is quite a bit over sized at this point.







    The forefoot almost gave me fits. Its 14" wide at the aft end and only 3" thick then tapers to 6" wide on the fore end where it bolts to the stem and is over 12" thick. It would be the largest grown knee I have ever seen or would be a ton of thin laminations. The decision we made was to steam some 2" thick slabs then glue them together and add a (probably solid, maybe laminated) triangular block to the bottom to finish out the shape of the forefoot. To do this we needed a steam box and steam generator.

    When I milled the lumber I put aside a bunch of wide, thick, knotty pine planks for the box and I used the water tank that we got for the smelter that was not up to snuff and cut it up to make a "stove" and water tank. Took 1 hour to bring about 50 gallons of water to a rolling boil. Could not have been happier with the outcome.








    Made plenty of steam! Alix and I both stood with our faces in the steam for a while, it was like having a mini sauna next to the boat house. Sitting/laying on the freshly steamed beams was also quite the treat on a cooler evening =)




    3 layers totaling 6" thick that will become the main timbers for the forefoot. No worries about grain run out when this one is put together! =) After 2 hours in the box we could clamp one end, put all 128 lbs of me sitting on the other end and it would slowly bend into place. So cool to see!

    You can see the profile pattern on the ground next to it.


    ACORN TO ARABELLA
    For additional info on this project:

    www.acorntoarabella.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAi...WB1xCp6uuUo0VA

  19. #404
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    Dude, everything is oversized about this project. Part of the viewing fun is watching you take on these huge tasks in a very matter-of-fact way. Mill huge logs? Melt 10,000 lbs of lead? Steam 2" planks? Rebuild ancient bandsaw? No problem!

    Keep on Trucking!
    "Oh my god, Triscuits are, like, the best." L.F Herreshoff, The Compleat Cruiser

  20. #405
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    look at those Bar Clamps bend! nice work.

  21. #406
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    Quote Originally Posted by minuteman View Post
    Dude, everything is oversized about this project. Part of the viewing fun is watching you take on these huge tasks in a very matter-of-fact way. Mill huge logs? Melt 10,000 lbs of lead? Steam 2" planks? Rebuild ancient bandsaw? No problem!

    Keep on Trucking!

    Thanks!

    And we will keep trucking!

    Everything up to this point has been a lot of work but nothing terribly thrilling or terrifying just a lot of work, I maintain anyone with 1/2 a brain and some gumption could do it.
    That will change soon!
    Gotta finish gluing the backbone timbers while the weather is warm and present our film at the festival at the end of the month. Alix has been working non-stop on the film for the festival so I have been working mostly alone, once we get that out of the way it's all hands on deck to get the pour done. The lead pour will be terrifying, thrilling and I think for that task a 1/4 brain and titanium balls are needed. That task scares the crap out of me! I hope we are worthy!

    100 gallons of 600 degree metal weighing 10,000 lbs in a home made tank and mold. What could go wrong?!?!?
    hahahahahha
    ACORN TO ARABELLA
    For additional info on this project:

    www.acorntoarabella.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAi...WB1xCp6uuUo0VA

  22. #407
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    look at those Bar Clamps bend! nice work.

    We went to bed right after putting the last beam on so we clamped the living hell out of it so as it cooled and shrank a bit everything would stay tight over night. The clamps had much less bend in them in the morning. One clamp was loose enough to just slide off in the am!

    The box and beams swelled quite a bit. The widest one did not quite fit, the end was too wide and stuck out of the box. We stupidly pushed it in all the way and steamed it. When we pulled the rags off the beam it had cut into the steam box a ways, there was a split second of panic (how the F are we going to get this out of here without cutting/taking apart the steam box) thankfully it was tapered so a good tug freed it.
    ACORN TO ARABELLA
    For additional info on this project:

    www.acorntoarabella.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAi...WB1xCp6uuUo0VA

  23. #408
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    It was nice meeting both of you this weekend at the International Maritime Film Festival (Bucksport, ME). That a was a great video you presented and congratulations on it winning the Audience's Favorite Award.

    I'll look forward to following your ambitious build.
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraftAssociation
    DowneastTSCA.org

    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  24. #409
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    Thanks! It was great to meet and chat with you at the Festival. We had a great time and were blown away when we won, we did not expect that!

    Here is the film, it is a brief synopsis of the first year and a half of our build.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2XwYsIQMrQ&t=10s

    Gotta get life back in order and some firewood split then it will be time to tackle the ballast pour, time to pony up and get er done.
    ACORN TO ARABELLA
    For additional info on this project:

    www.acorntoarabella.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAi...WB1xCp6uuUo0VA

  25. #410
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    Quote Originally Posted by sdenette View Post
    Thanks! It was great to meet and chat with you at the Festival. We had a great time and were blown away when we won, we did not expect that!

    Here is the film, it is a brief synopsis of the first year and a half of our build.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2XwYsIQMrQ&t=10s

    Gotta get life back in order and some firewood split then it will be time to tackle the ballast pour, time to pony up and get er done.
    have you seen this vessel on Craigs List, near the Cape, it might have all the hardware and ballast you are looking for, and at 3000 dollars or free to wooden boat organization it seems the price is right... this is how Burnham Built Ardell, he took the fittings off the Pinky Maine.

    32' double ended Atkin Cutter... Sails, Spars, and likely 20,000$+- worth of hardware if purchased new...

    Last edited by Daniel Noyes; 10-04-2017 at 10:09 PM.

  26. #411
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    Thanks for the heads up!

    Sent them a email
    For the price I think it would be worth getting and parting out but I also hate to see a wooden boat destroyed. Hopefully they find a home to restore her but if not we offered to check her out and most likely buy her and scrap her for our build.

    Will let ya all know if we end up buying her.
    ACORN TO ARABELLA
    For additional info on this project:

    www.acorntoarabella.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAi...WB1xCp6uuUo0VA

  27. #412
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    Default Re: Building Arabella (An Atkin Ingrid)

    The Peg Leg was genius.

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