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Thread: British Politics Post Brexit

  1. #36
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    After Ms. May eventually realised, that it will not be possible for Britain to leave the EU but remain in the single market and the customs union, she tells now, Britain will leave EU, single market and customs union. But she will negotiate to achieve as a future non-member better conditions, than Britain has now as a member state.

    Because the EU will not concede conditions which it can't concede without commiting suicide, she calls it "punishment" and threatens to go for a tax war against Europe.

    And Mr. Johnson is "extremely excited", because Mr. Farage and a meber of the Trump team are telling, there is a US-UK trade deal to get within 90 days or less.

    This british government does not working well in my opinion and the labour opposition isn't working at all.
    Gruß, Günter

  2. #37
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by heimfried View Post
    And Mr. Johnson is "extremely excited", because Mr. Farage and a meber of the Trump team are telling, there is a US-UK trade deal to get within 90 days or less.
    Any two national leaders could make a 'trade deal' in five minutes over a cup of coffee.
    "We'll buy stuff from you"..
    "OK and we'll buy stuff from you"
    Shake hands then "My people will be in touch with your people".

    That could be interpreted as a deal. It's the fine detail that often takes years.

    Quote Originally Posted by heimfried View Post
    This british government does not working well in my opinion and the labour opposition isn't working at all.
    True on both counts.
    Somewhere between Murder and Suicide, there is a place called Merseyside.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    @ heimfried
    ^ just so.
    Also can anyone explain this?
    Theresa May has threatened EU leaders that she will walk away from negotiations with Brussels if they attempt to give Britain a “bad deal” as she revealed her 12-point plan for divorce talks.
    Is she saying that she will simply sever all ties and leave us with no relationship with our nearest neighbours, like for example NZ or OZ, but without their proximity to the Pacific Rim economies and markets?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  4. #39
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Also can anyone explain this?
    Is she saying that she will simply sever all ties and leave us with no relationship with our nearest neighbours, like for example NZ or OZ, but without their proximity to the Pacific Rim economies and markets?
    It looks like she is trying to impress her critics by taking a hard line, but it's a foolish move. At a time when Trump and Putin are desperately trying to drive wedges between the EU nations, it seems appropriate to at least keep a friendly relationship with our European neighbours. United we stand, divided we fall and all that.
    Somewhere between Murder and Suicide, there is a place called Merseyside.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    While Ms. May refuses to give the parliament a say on the crucial point whether Britain will trigger article 50 or not, she said now, she will ask the parliament before the conclusion of the treaties to negotiate.

    That is a nothing value. There are different opinions, if Britain would be entitled (without the consent of all the other 27 members), to whithdraw the article 50 notice, once given to the EU. No such entitlement is written in the european treaties. And this question is to decide only by the European Court of Justice.

    So, if the parliament would say "no" to the negotiated agreements, it would not at all mean a revocation of leaving the EU. It would mean: Britain is out without an agreement. This point is not discussed in the british public as it seems to me (since june I read every day online British newspapers).
    Last edited by heimfried; 01-21-2017 at 01:33 PM. Reason: typo
    Gruß, Günter

  6. #41
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    ^ It comes down to the Tories having no plan and having to sort out a crappy task on the hoof.
    They only held the referendum to shut up the Tory Little Englander back bench MP's and did not expect the result they were given.
    So now May is between a rock and a hard place, with a duty to try and make the best of a really bad job and no contingency plan in place.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  7. #42
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    I am sure the UK will survive but I am not so sure of the EU.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by bob winter View Post
    I am sure the UK will survive [...].
    You are generally right, but in what shape? Did you look at Northern Ireland and see, the Good Fridays agreement is at risk? Did you look at Scotland?
    Gruß, Günter

  9. #44
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    The UK is fifty fifty on surviving, there are really serious internal stresses.
    Someday, I'm going to settle down and be a grumpy old man.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by bob winter View Post
    [...] but I am not so sure of the EU.
    While it is possible that the EU comes to a crash, I don't think so. In spite of the serious effort, Putin puts in it and, as it is obvious now, also Trump.
    Gruß, Günter

  11. #46
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by heimfried View Post
    While it is possible that the EU comes to a crash, I don't think so. In spite of the serious effort, Putin puts in it and, as it is obvious now, also Trump.
    I'm inclined to agree. Not that it is too big to fail, it is too important to fail.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  12. #47
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    My thoughts on the EU is that the Euro is toxic to some members. The UK did well to retain the pound. I really fail to fully understand why Greece didn't do Grexit.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by bob winter View Post
    My thoughts on the EU is that the Euro is toxic to some members. The UK did well to retain the pound. I really fail to fully understand why Greece didn't do Grexit.
    I am not sure that they could. They were bankrupt due to the national hobby of not paying taxes. The country would have ceased to function without the support of the EU.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  14. #49
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    I am not sure that they could. They were bankrupt due to the national hobby of not paying taxes. The country would have ceased to function without the support of the EU.
    Yea.

    Most of the greek people hate the EU, especially Germany. But it is ok for them that the ship owners of Greece, the richest citizen, have to pay no tax, which is fixed in their constitution. And the other rich people, who are liable to pay taxes, prefer, to refuse. The tax authorities put not very much effort in changing this habit.
    Last edited by heimfried; 01-21-2017 at 01:46 PM.
    Gruß, Günter

  15. #50
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    I'd add - the disgusting reality of today appears that a major foreign policy aim of the Trump regime is the destruction of the EU. Prepare accordingly

  16. #51
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    What would be the consequences of ceasing to function? Would it worse than having a debt to banksters that will likely be repaid bur billions will be paid in interest?

  17. #52
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    The UK is fifty fifty on surviving, there are really serious internal stresses.

    And some how they got to be dealt with. Down here, most people are a bit like John Bull, fed up of paying for everything. The Scots are intent on dissolving the Union so another referendum is invetiable.Only this time the question should be asked on both sides of the border and only a No vote on both sides would maintain the status quo. Prior to that a divorce Bill should be published so that everybody is in no doubt as to who gets what.

    After that I don't know. Certainly the reunification of Ireland is a necessity but whether the Unionists would agree is problematic, maybe they could go home to Scotland. Welsh independence? that's a tricky one.

    Nick

  18. #53
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by bob winter View Post
    What would be the consequences of ceasing to function? Would it worse than having a debt to banksters that will likely be repaid bur billions will be paid in interest?
    These organisations cease and their staff are thrown out of work. http://www.gksoft.com/govt/en/gr.html
    All of the utilities and public services dependent on them stop working.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  19. #54
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    I don't think Northern Ireland will unify with the Catholics. Too much bad blood.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by bob winter View Post
    I don't think Northern Ireland will unify with the Catholics. Too much bad blood.
    I see the Constitution of Eire being a bigger blocker.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  21. #56
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    A friend of mine , originally from NZ and Australia who now lives in France says a lot of Brits he knows are upset that they will now have return to the UK from Europe, some 3 million of them. Many have bought housing in European countries.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  22. #57
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by NickW View Post
    And some how they got to be dealt with. Down here, most people are a bit like John Bull, fed up of paying for everything. The Scots are intent on dissolving the Union so another referendum is invetiable.Only this time the question should be asked on both sides of the border and only a No vote on both sides would maintain the status quo. Prior to that a divorce Bill should be published so that everybody is in no doubt as to who gets what.

    After that I don't know. Certainly the reunification of Ireland is a necessity but whether the Unionists would agree is problematic, maybe they could go home to Scotland. Welsh independence? that's a tricky one.

    Nick
    I wish the Scots well.They may have the leverage to enforce a level of sanity on the rest of the UK.It would be fairer if the whole UK electorate could vote on whether to exit the EU on whatever terms the negotiators finally agree.I doubt that our elected representatives will be able to resist voting for any change that gives them more power.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    .It would be fairer if the whole UK electorate could vote on whether to exit the EU on whatever terms the negotiators finally agree.
    Careful what you wish for. I offer you Boaty McBoatface and Jeremy Corbyn (twice).
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  24. #59
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Careful what you wish for. I offer you Boaty McBoatface and Jeremy Corbyn (twice).

    You could have added Brexit.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    ^ Just so. However as you were suggesting letting the uninformed vote on BREXIT I thought it might be a tad provocative.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  26. #61
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by NickW View Post
    And some how they got to be dealt with. Down here, most people are a bit like John Bull, fed up of paying for everything. The Scots are intent on dissolving the Union so another referendum is invetiable.Only this time the question should be asked on both sides of the border and only a No vote on both sides would maintain the status quo. Prior to that a divorce Bill should be published so that everybody is in no doubt as to who gets what.

    After that I don't know. Certainly the reunification of Ireland is a necessity but whether the Unionists would agree is problematic, maybe they could go home to Scotland. Welsh independence? that's a tricky one.

    Nick
    A similar situation in the USA when the constitution was ratified. There was already a movement afoot to separate Maine from Massachusetts. Some people were against the national Constitution because they thought it would hasten the split, others for it because they thought it would prevent it. IOW people voted for or against the national constitution based on 180 degree contradictions in what they expected the effect to be on their pet local issue.

    Everybody wants to keep it small and local until there's an external threat, it seems.
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
    It wasn't racism, it was an attack on Christianity. -- Fox News
    This week, it is Robert E. Lee and this week, Stonewall Jackson. Is it George Washington next? You have to ask yourself, where does it stop?

  27. #62
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    Just in. The UK government has lost its appeal at the Supreme Court, and the decision to trigger article 50 must now be subject to a vote in Parliament..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-38723261
    Somewhere between Murder and Suicide, there is a place called Merseyside.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    A friend of mine , originally from NZ and Australia who now lives in France says a lot of Brits he knows are upset that they will now have return to the UK from Europe, some 3 million of them. Many have bought housing in European countries.
    Brits (inc me)have lived in europe for years before the EU was thought of, so I don't follow that they all have to return to UK if Brexit goes through. Bit more paperwork and residency permits, but no big deal.
    A2

    With the élections coming up here and Germany, the EU needs to sort itself out, or Brexit will be a minor event. Italy is on the edge...

  29. #64
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    This brexitmess resembles nothing so much as the outbreak of WW1, everyone knows it's a dumb idea but we're going to do it anyway.
    Someday, I'm going to settle down and be a grumpy old man.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    It looks like the deal offered to Nissan, originally thought to be cash incentives to protect them from EU tariffs post-brexit, may now be under review by Nissan. They employ 6,700 people at the Sunderland plant. It has been reported recently that the 'deal' was nothing more than a commitment by the government to push for tariff-free access to EU markets in Brexit talks. Now that Teresa May appears to heading for a hard brexit, or clean break, Nissan are having second thoughts..

    http://www.politico.eu/article/nissa...exit-deal-ceo/
    Somewhere between Murder and Suicide, there is a place called Merseyside.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    In Wales there is concern over how a hard brexit will affect Aerospace company Airbus..

    http://www.walesonline.co.uk/busines...could-12406574
    Somewhere between Murder and Suicide, there is a place called Merseyside.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    A part of today's Supreme Court Rule reads:

    26.

    In these proceedings, it is common ground that notice under article 50(2)

    (which we shall call “Notice”) cannot be given in qualified or conditional terms and

    that, once given, it cannot be withdrawn. [...]

    It follows from this that once the United Kingdom gives Notice, it will inevitably cease at a later date to

    be a member of the European Union and a party to the EU Treaties.


    Gruß, Günter

  33. #68
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    The Independent publishes an article, which is - in my opinion - misleading.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7543571.html

    Geoffrey Robertson QC: “A future Parliament can decide to stop the Brexit process in its tracks simply by repealing any act or any statute that the Government, as a result of today’s decision, manages to pass.”

    He is probably formally correct saying: “The Supreme Court decision was made only on the assumption that it was because counsel on both sides agreed that it was irrevocable." But his conclusion is likely wrong.

    Article 50:
    3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the state in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the member state concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period. …”

    Judge yourself: if already the prolongation of the negotiations is only possible with the consent of all 28 members, why should the single member be entitled, to declear unilateral to withdraw his notice?

    The decision wheter the notice to trigger article 50 is given or not, is only as long as it is not given a solely british matter. But after this notice is received in Brussels there are 27 other players in the game. And not the UKSC is up to decide, if it is revocable or not, but the ECJ.
    Last edited by heimfried; 01-24-2017 at 01:52 PM.
    Gruß, Günter

  34. #69
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    This http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegDat...)577971_EN.pdf is silent on whether you can change your mind and stay. All it says is that 2 years after triggering Article 50 you are out. So may be silence does mean no back tracking.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  35. #70
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    Default Re: British Politics Post Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    This http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegDat...)577971_EN.pdf is silent on whether you can change your mind and stay. All it says is that 2 years after triggering Article 50 you are out. So may be silence does mean no back tracking.
    Good point. But then, as far as I know, there is no restriction on a country applying to join again after leaving. That would be amusing
    Somewhere between Murder and Suicide, there is a place called Merseyside.

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