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Thread: Design Plans similar to PT11

  1. #1
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    Default Design Plans similar to PT11

    Hello Guys

    Looking for plans of a design similar to the PT11 or Heritage 12 ... these boats either comes just in kit or fully built, so looking for a similar design where you can just buy plans.
    Keep on Sailing

    smilicus

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    sailing has a destination, not an estimated time of arrival - Sir R Knox-Johnston

    http://sailingcatch22.blogspot.com

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Design Plans similar to PT11

    Kind of apples to oranges boats, aren't they?
    Everything changes . Everything is connected . Pay attention

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Design Plans similar to PT11

    Hello WHYANKEE....

    I know but that is a lack of better options to present to you guys or just the lack of my exposure to row sailors. I am looking for a boo 10 - 12ft, sliding row seat that can be sailed as well.
    Keep on Sailing

    smilicus

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    sailing has a destination, not an estimated time of arrival - Sir R Knox-Johnston

    http://sailingcatch22.blogspot.com

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Design Plans similar to PT11

    Are you intent on building a boat or would you consider buying a used one that fit your requirements? There is a production boat that sounds exactly perfect for you. Although they are still in production, older ones are occasionally seen for sale at reasonable prices. Finding one with both the sail rig and the sliding seat, both options, might be tricky. I'm not sure if the new ones still have the sliding seat options available. The boat is a Saroca. http://saroca.com/
    Everything changes . Everything is connected . Pay attention

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Design Plans similar to PT11

    The H-14 Dinghy (http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/11/columns/austin/05/) by L. Francis Herreshoff bears some resemblance to the PT-11.






    A modified version of the hull (scaled X x 0.8, Y x 0.9 and Z x 0.8) is very similar to the PT-11.








  6. #6
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    Default Re: Design Plans similar to PT11

    I'm curious who put so much effort into copying our design. It must have taken some effort, but why?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Design Plans similar to PT11

    Hi Russell,
    I am sorry if you are upset, but I assure you that this is not a copy of your design.

    I will try to explain what I did to create a 3D model that is similar to your design and please let me know if you still think that it is a copy.

    First I noticed the similarity in profile of the H-14 and the PT 11.
    As I really like your design and always wanted to do some profound study, I was curious to see if there is even more analogy between the two designs.

    I used the lines plan of the H-14 to create the curves that define the hull of the boat. If you are familiar with a CAD program like Rhino this is not hard to do.
    The body plan of H-14 shows a curved bottom which is not suited for stitch and glue construction. So I widened the keel shoe to get a flat bottom much like many of the more refined skiffs have (for example the Chamberlain Skiff or your PT 11). I still kept the profile of the bottom the same as in the original lines plan.

    This new bottom, the original curves of the chines and the original sheer line are the basis for my modified 3D version of the H-14 which is absolutely true to the lines of the original, except for the variation of the bottom.

    After scaling this model (length x 0.8, width x 0.9 and height x 0.8) to come closer to the dimensions of the PT 11 my design exercise was finished.

    The fact that you think this is a copy of your design, shows that I was not wrong assuming there is a certain similarity between the H-14 and the PT 11.

    I hope I was able to clarify what I did. If you still think that what I did is not correct, please let me know and I will readily remove the drawings that I have posted.

    Kind regards
    Stefan
    Last edited by flo-mo; 09-12-2016 at 01:37 PM. Reason: typo

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Design Plans similar to PT11

    Nice work Flo-mo. With so many boats around, its sometimes all too easy to follow a line that has gone before. I wonder if Herroshoff would be so quick to ask Mr Brown about his boat? Chicken and egg moment......

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Design Plans similar to PT11

    Sorry about my response Flo-mo. We had someone stop by our booth at the Wooden Boat Festival yesterday that was indignant that we only sold kits and not plans and then proceeded to take photos of the boat from all angles. He left a bad taste in our mouths and when I saw this thread this morning and the lines drawings I got slightly ruffled when I should have been flattered.
    I never saw the lines for the H-14, but they are quite nice. I take your point, Skaraborgcraft.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Design Plans similar to PT11

    I can see your point Mr Brown. I spent over 12 months working on a design, only to have someone else release plans for what basically was the same boat i had drawn. I was a bit agog that "my" idea had been put out there by someone else, but i did take comfort (some), that at least my creative mind side was at least on the level of this well known professional, though i did not want a boat that is always going to be compared as a "copy" of another. My next effort will be a bit more individual......

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Design Plans similar to PT11

    I think there are good reasons why there are no plans out there for boats in your target category. Most narrowish boats in that size range are so easily rowed from a fixed seat that a sliding seat is unnecessary. With a hull that short, they get close to hull speed with little effort and a sliding seat will not make them go faster. The boats that really benefit most from a sliding seat are longer (15'+) and narrow and not so suitable for sailing. In a small boat like that the sailing and sliding seat setup will compete for the same limited space.

    Accepting a fixed rowing seat or having two separate boats would be much, much easier.

    If you really want to build your own short sliding seat sailboat your best option might be to pick a plan for boat you like, then assess if it could be compatible with a sliding seat and if yes, put one in afterwards. If the designer is still alive, don't be afraid to contact them; their advice will no doubt be good. There are readymade drop in outrigger/seat units for sale, but also plans for outrigger/sliding seat combos. Angus Rowboats has a separate sliding seat+outrigger plan for example, and Glen-L might have one too. You could also buy a plan for a whole sliding seat rowboat to get the plan for the seat and outriggers. If your boat has a 4' + beam you may not need outriggers even with a sliding seat if you row with shorter oars, but the angle between the oars and the water might not be ideal.

    Few boats seem to have seats low enough that you could just put a sliding seat unit on top. If you need to omit the seat thwarts to fit in the sliding seat and those thwarts are structural, you would need to replace them with more and/or heavier framing, especially if the boat will be sailed. You'd have to also ensure the sailing bits, especially mast partner, daggerboard or centerboard case aren't in the way of where the sliding seat needs to go; this could be problematic in a short boat. Maybe pivoting leeboards would work if they don't get in the way of the rowing setup.

    Would the boat be rowed and sailed in the same outing? If so, thought needs to be given to storing the mast and sails while rowing. Rowing with a mast up will destabilize the boat. So will sitting on a sliding seat, which places your weight higher than when rowing fixed seat. If you are sailing and have the rowing seat/outrigger in there you'd have to be careful not to trip over it and it might prevent you from sitting on the floor or from getting to the other side quickly.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Design Plans similar to PT11

    Quote Originally Posted by flo-mo View Post
    The H-14 Dinghy (http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/11/columns/austin/05/) by L. Francis Herreshoff bears some resemblance to the PT-11.
    Just looking for the PT11 and I find you

    I am a little devastated about my Mayfly14 project, finishing seems so far away, so I am looking into building a nesting dinghy that fits in the back of my Sharan. Lifting and securing the Eastport Pram SOF on the roof is also tiresome. I'd rather take the seats out and put it in the trunk.
    The original PT11 won't fit nested but I thought it would be possible to also split both halfs longitudinal, stack them and stand them on the middle. All seats out there is room for a 200/114/100cm box.
    4 parts could also be stored in the cellar easily.
    Last edited by heavyweather; 05-16-2017 at 05:43 PM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Design Plans similar to PT11

    I gave it a try from scratch and I guess it could work. My gunnel is a little wider at the split resulting in less a kink on the upper chine there. The bottom panel is also a little pointier than in Flo-mo's drawing.
    The final packing dimensions are 177/100/65cm...with some room between.

    There is enough flesh between the nested parts that I could try traditional SOF on the aft parts.
    The bulkheads and the middle dividers will be 12mm Siebfilm again.

    Now I have to decide.
    SOF or ply (can I do ply without glassing? Just paint?)?
    double the daggerboard slot for use with my Mirage Drive?
    I will probably try a new segmented bamboo mast/rig.

    Worth a try or leave it alone?


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Design Plans similar to PT11



    I decided to move the gunnels in 55mm for a more pronounced kink. Also saves some height. Now the package is 10cm lower.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Design Plans similar to PT11

    I wasn't satisfied so I tried again. Looks much better now.

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