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Thread: Storer Sailing Canoe

  1. #176
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    Dec 2011
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    Default Re: Storer Sailing Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatmik View Post
    We took 8 Oz Geese up to Subic Bay for a regatta two weeks ago. And saw the streakers!

    Half the geese were sailed by us. The other half by the PSA (Philippines Sailing Association) who are part of the national coaching squad.

    The coaching squad put the men in the Oz Geese singlehanded and the bigger teens and women in the Streakers.

    You can see one of the Streakers ahead of the geese in this image. They started 5 minutes ahead in some races and their racecourses intersected with ours.



    Best wishes
    MIK
    Thanks MIK good to here the Streakers are still going in Subic bay. One week to the U.K. Nationals, lots of polishing to see how my 21 year old all wood Streaker will fair against the new plastic fantastics.

    The Oz geese look like they’re having a blast.

  2. #177
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    Jul 2005
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    Default Re: Storer Sailing Canoe

    For delight and edification we can thank Csaba Mezei and the other builders in Hungary for this lovely video of two Viola Canoes.



    One sail is from a local type of sailing dinghy. The other one is an experimental home made sail. Sails are very expensive compared to income in Hungary.

    Camera boat is an Oz Goose, which also is not a slouch in light winds.

    Best wishes

  3. #178
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    Default Re: Storer Sailing Canoe

    And two photos ripped from the video.



    ...


  4. #179
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    Oct 2005
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    The Netherlands
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    Default Re: Storer Sailing Canoe

    Very nice, that video. I like it when people make their own sails, next one probably much better. Perhaps I can sail this summer with my Zest Dinghy together with Joost Engelens Viola. Regards, Frank

  5. #180
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    Australia
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    Default Re: Storer Sailing Canoe

    A video with a bit more action from Joost.



    MIK

  6. #181
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    Aug 2019
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    Sagle, Idaho, USA
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    1

    Default Re: Storer Sailing Canoe

    Don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but this does not seem like any canoe I have seen before. In my experience, a canoe does not have a centerboard. Lee boards yes, centerboards no. It's a nice sailboat, however and nothing wrong with that.

  7. #182
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    May 2017
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    Cumbria, UK
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    181

    Default Re: Storer Sailing Canoe

    Rare as hen's teeth but it has been done. Never seen one myself, although did see one with an off-centre board in a casing.
    http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php...factory.11245/
    http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php...erboard.15787/

  8. #183
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    2,786

    Default Re: Storer Sailing Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by Tillerman6 View Post
    Don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but this does not seem like any canoe I have seen before. In my experience, a canoe does not have a centerboard. Lee boards yes, centerboards no. It's a nice sailboat, however and nothing wrong with that.
    The centreboard was in use in sailing canoes from at least 1875. William Forwood, an influential sailor from the Liverpool (UK) area who had raced against the early sandbagger Truant and later owned her, claimed to have adopted them to canoes. Given his experience with Truant and with novel designs, it seems to be a reasonable claim. The centreboard was in use in North American canoes by 1881.

  9. #184
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    Aug 2016
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    Oisterwijk, the Netherlands
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    79

    Default Re: Storer Sailing Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by Tillerman6 View Post
    Don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but this does not seem like any canoe I have seen before. In my experience, a canoe does not have a centerboard. Lee boards yes, centerboards no. It's a nice sailboat, however and nothing wrong with that.
    Some comments from the builder (and sailor in the video above):

    1. The size (width) is similar to other specialized sailing canoes (for example the UK Solway Dory sailing canoes, the Japanese Aquamuse canoe).

    2. Most canoes that are sailed are paddling canoes retrofitted for sailing. Also, I believe that some sailing canoe classes (especially those in the US) require a lee board and do not allow a center board. A lee board is much easier to retrofit.

    But certainly canoes specially designed for sailing (for example the Nautilus sailing canoe designed in 1895(!), the aforementioned Aquamuse canoe, the Dave Gentry designed Chautauqua, some Selway Fisher sailing canoe designs and let's not forget the International Canoe sailing class) are fitted with dagger boards or center boards. I think it is more about shape and width rather than anything else that in people's minds qualifies a craft as a sailing canoe or a dinghy, and not the way how lateral resistance is provided.

    3. The Viola 14 was designed as a very light weight sailboat (hull weight below 30kg is achievable!). As such the chosen overall dimensions are similar to sailing canoes. The hull shape itself is different however since the boat was designed as a sailboat rather than a canoe (so no submerged forefoot and transom). A dagger board is better from a pure sailing perspective and as such designed in the boat. She can still be paddled some distance at a good pace with some effort however.

    I personally do not care much whether it is called a sailing dinghy or a sailing canoe. And yes, it is a very fun boat to sail!

  10. #185
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
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    Seattle
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    Default Re: Storer Sailing Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by Tillerman6 View Post
    Don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but this does not seem like any canoe I have seen before. In my experience, a canoe does not have a centerboard. Lee boards yes, centerboards no. It's a nice sailboat, however and nothing wrong with that.
    Here's an assortment of decked sailing canoes from the 1870s on. Almost all have centerboards.
    Last edited by johnw; 09-03-2019 at 02:17 PM.

  11. #186
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    Default Re: Storer Sailing Canoe

    I think "canoe" to most North American residents means strictly a paddle craft... I agree that centerboard sailing canoes have been around for a long time in the UK and probably elsewhere in Europe. Just like "chips" here doesn't mean what it does in the UK.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  12. #187
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    Seattle
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    Default Re: Storer Sailing Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    I think "canoe" to most North American residents means strictly a paddle craft... I agree that centerboard sailing canoes have been around for a long time in the UK and probably elsewhere in Europe. Just like "chips" here doesn't mean what it does in the UK.

    Tom
    Look at the list in post 185, many of those are American designs. Sailing canoes were a big deal here in the late 19th century, and there are still people who race them here. The sliding seat was invented in the U.S. and adopted by the British after they brought one of their boats here and were soundly defeated.

    They were still quite active in the 1930s when Uffa Fox brought over a planing canoe he used to win the UK and US championships, leading to the harmonization of the UK and US rules and the advent of the International 10 square meter canoe.

  13. #188
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    northwestern Wisconsin
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    Default Re: Storer Sailing Canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Look at the list in post 185, many of those are American designs. Sailing canoes were a big deal here in the late 19th century, and there are still people who race them here. The sliding seat was invented in the U.S. and adopted by the British after they brought one of their boats here and were soundly defeated.

    They were still quite active in the 1930s when Uffa Fox brought over a planing canoe he used to win the UK and US championships, leading to the harmonization of the UK and US rules and the advent of the International 10 square meter canoe.
    Yep, I agree with you 100%. I'm just pointing out that the vast majority of North Americans' exposure to "canoes" has been, and continues to be, light narrow-beamed paddling craft inspired by First Nations/Native Americans, and of course the odd voyageur here and there. So I am not surprised that some would find the idea of a centerboard canoe unsettling. That's all I was trying to say.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  14. #189
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    Mar 2007
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    East Quogue,NY
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    Default

    Good info and pics of 1880's sailing canoes in the US ( NY).


    https://buffalomaritimecenter.org/ru...sailing-canoe/

    Note detail image of folding, fan-type, centerboard.






    Kevin




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  15. #190
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    Narragansett Bay and Approaches
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    Default Re: Storer Sailing Canoe

    Purpose built Sailing Canoes, which evolved into International 10 square Meter Sailing Canoes have had center boards since day 1. The American Open Canoe Classes ( A B&C Class) were based on converting ď inexpensiveĒ wood canvas Canoes to sailing. The prospect of installing a centerboard trunk in a wood canvas canoe is not for the faint of heart. In fact Iím not really sure it could have been done with the techniques and materials of the 1930s. Leeboards were much easier to fabricate and install, and so they were adopted. This made the only real bug bear the twisting caused by the mast step and partners, which was fairly easily solved by diagonal bracing in the area, or by extending the breasthooks aft into something resembling a foredeck. It is fairly easy to install a daggerboard trunk in a modern fiberglass canoe, but the open sailing canoe classes only permit leeboards.

    There is nothing that prohibits sailing canoe from having centerboards or daggerboards. My only criticism of the Storer sailing Canoes is that they are too short. For my money, a sailing canoe should be gratuitously long, with a D/L of 50 or less.

    I think a boxed in daggerboard trunk is a practical and attractive feature, providing a place to park your butt that isnít in the bilge. If you want to use a long double blade to, you need some sort of seat to get your stroke geometry right, and the trunk can provide that. Further, I think the daggerboard makes it possible to fully explore the performance potential of these long light easily driven hulls.
    The major problem I have found is keeping Open Canoes from sinking. They go fast enough to throw a lot of spray around and can punch trough waves, resulting in green water coming over the foredeck. If you sail them with Laser like aggression on a normally windy day, you can be all aglub in less than 5 minutes.
    If you think about it, the topsides of a paddling canoe are defined by the problem of putting a paddle in the water, which almost demands tumble home. Tumble home is not a feature of open boats that have to survive in a seaway. You keep water out with flare. Which kind of gets you designing and building hulls from scratch, in which case, you can easily build a daggerboard trunk while you are at it. Epoxy glue and a bit of glass tape make centerboard trunks easier than ever before.
    SHC
    Last edited by SHClark; 09-04-2019 at 10:52 PM.

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