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Thread: Centennial

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Centennial

    thanks Jim, just got inside from spileing the Starboard side sheer plank.

    yeah I've got some decisions to make in regard to the deck, the original Centennial has wide pine boards ship lapped, I'm not hopefull that such a arrangement would stay waterproof for long, so I am considering laying a 1/4" ply deck then gluing 1/4 inch pine planks over it, calking the seams and bedding the planks in coopernoll and glue...

    hmmmm not sure how much i like that idea but I think it would be more waterproof than just ship lapped wide boards...

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Centennial

    I f you are epoxy glassing the bottom, why not lay 2 quarter inch ply for the decks and sheath it?

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Would you not want some temporary spreaders to keep the frames from compressing while planking?

    Novice here so please feel free to disregard.

    This is a great thread- we are on the same page when it comes to old tools as well as I have definitely turned around to pick up a discarded shovel on the side of the road before

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by Toolate View Post
    Would you not want some temporary spreaders to keep the frames from compressing while planking?
    Not normally nessesary. When hanging plank over temporary moulds the plank should just kiss the moulds. The Scandinavian and Shetland builders are able to build without any moulds, just using a measuring stick from a datum line.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  5. #75
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I f you are epoxy glassing the bottom, why not lay 2 quarter inch ply for the decks and sheath it?
    thats definately an option, thats how Harrold Burnham does the decks of his schooners Fame and Ardelle... another option is a 1/4- 3/8ths ply deck with canvas set in paint on top, has a wonderful soft feel on bare feet vs the glassed deck.

    If I do the ply and plank deck the planking will be oiled or varnished with a matte varnish, I think the look of the wood planking like on the deck of a old Gloucester fishing schooner could be very nice...

    decisions decisions.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by Toolate View Post
    Would you not want some temporary spreaders to keep the frames from compressing while planking?

    Novice here so please feel free to disregard.

    This is a great thread- we are on the same page when it comes to old tools as well as I have definitely turned around to pick up a discarded shovel on the side of the road before
    Like Peerie says, spreaders aren't necessary, there is certainly some minor amount of compression but these are heavy sawn white oak frames and the natural curve of the plank is quite fair to the framing, so simply putting the plank in compression at the ends at the stem and transom, and allowing the middle to bend to the shape of the frames results in fairly low stresses, but the hull is a shape in tension to some degree, like a giant wooden basket built to keep things out rather than in.

    the planking is quite flexible, it is 5/8ths thick Eastern white pine, during the thickness planeing from 1 inch rough lumber to 5/8ths the difference in stiffness is astounding, once you get past 3/4inch the difference is noticeable, and at 5/8ths the planks are like a wet noodle.
    Last edited by Daniel Noyes; 11-02-2016 at 09:03 AM.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    thanks Jim, just got inside from spileing the Starboard side sheer plank.

    yeah I've got some decisions to make in regard to the deck, the original Centennial has wide pine boards ship lapped, I'm not hopefull that such a arrangement would stay waterproof for long, so I am considering laying a 1/4" ply deck then gluing 1/4 inch pine planks over it, calking the seams and bedding the planks in coopernoll and glue...

    hmmmm not sure how much i like that idea but I think it would be more waterproof than just ship lapped wide boards...
    One of the things we have to remember is that you are not using the boat the same way. Centennial was built, got wet and stayed wet through out her use period. That ship lapped deck probably worked just fine. But you are going to be in and out of the water, on trailers etc. Much more radical shrink swell cycles.

    That deck will stiffen the sides up a lot. I have found that on my sawn frame Swampscott, when the seats were close fit I had to trim some from the seats so they wouldn't press on the sides as the boat tries to straighten out.
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  8. #78
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    thats definately an option, thats how Harrold Burnham does the decks of his schooners Fame and Ardelle... another option is a 1/4- 3/8ths ply deck with canvas set in paint on top, has a wonderful soft feel on bare feet vs the glassed deck.

    If I do the ply and plank deck the planking will be oiled or varnished with a matte varnish, I think the look of the wood planking like on the deck of a old Gloucester fishing schooner could be very nice...

    decisions decisions.
    For sure, totally understand the asthetic side of things, just see that kind of deck over ply doomed to failure some day down the line. Canvas over ply works well, cant say i notice any difference when either canvas or sheathing is coated with non-slip paint though. I like a dry sleeping bag.....

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Thank you.

    I suspect the rocker in the bottom and curvature of the lowest plank probably sets the curvature for the rest of the planks too.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Centennial

    here's what I'm being inspired by... I wonder if ship lapped planks with a good quality adhesive calk might do the job??? Ben, excellent point about the usability, I cant stand a cold wet sleeping bag
    Last edited by Daniel Noyes; 11-03-2016 at 06:27 AM.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Mast... and started on the boom, gaff and bowsprit.



  12. #82
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    Rough cut those garboards today, 1/2" marine fir from a 4x 10' sheet, hoping to have them scarphed and ready to nail one on by this weekend


    just for fun here's an old photo of Spear chugging right along, 1 ft longer but a much "smaller" dory than Centennial.

    just doing the math on Centennials rig, looks like the Alpha carries a little more than half the Sail that Centennial will up wind... and about 1/3rd as much broad reaching and off the wind...

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Centennial

    I swung by Dan's place the other day and check out his Centennial build. We also went to Gloucester and checked out the original CENTENNIAL at the Cape Ann Museum.

    Where he stands right now:



    Some detail from the overlapping planks at the bow of the Dan's Centennial build. Dan has an interesting story about this and how this dory-specific technique to was passed down to him in unwitting vestigial form. He has alternated left and right, CENTENNIAL is all in one direction. This is a typical dory bow, with no false stem.



    At the Cape Ann Museum we gathered up one of the curators (Eric?) and dragged him to he maritime section where CENTENNIAL is prominently displayed in the middle of the room. The two of them got right to it and started examining small specific details both inside and outside and the boat.







    One thing that we found very interesting was the lack of scuppers along the prominent toe rail. Where did all the water go that came aboard? Down into the bilges? Alfred Johnson has a pump, you can see the egress on the port side of the boat near the coming of the aft cockpit--- apparently a hose vented overboard? I wonder if the current toe rail is not the ocean-crossing toe rail, but it's definitely old.

    Also surprising was finding that the centerboard trunk does not run from bulkhead to bulkhead as Dan surmised, but is much smaller in reality. There is a false longitudinal bulkhead that runs from the front of the CB trunk to the next forward actual bulkhead.

    Anyway, still some questions for Dan to puzzle out, but his new Centennial Dory is coming along nicely.

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by callsign222 View Post
    I swung by Dan's place the other day and check out his Centennial build. We also went to Gloucester and checked out the original CENTENNIAL at the Cape Ann Museum.



    One thing that we found very interesting was the lack of scuppers along the prominent toe rail. Where did all the water go that came aboard? Down into the bilges? Alfred Johnson has a pump, you can see the egress on the port side of the boat near the coming of the aft cockpit--- apparently a hose vented overboard? I wonder if the current toe rail is not the ocean-crossing toe rail, but it's definitely old.

    Also surprising was finding that the centerboard trunk does not run from bulkhead to bulkhead as Dan surmised, but is much smaller in reality. There is a false longitudinal bulkhead that runs from the front of the CB trunk to the next forward actual bulkhead.

    Anyway, still some questions for Dan to puzzle out, but his new Centennial Dory is coming along nicely.
    great museum! the perfect combination of real boats and real art work, something for everyone.

    Gardner has the lines to Centennial in his boats to build and use, but no info on the rig/deck or foils so I've just been building hull till now, and statted on the rig over the past few weeks, I'm very pleased how everything is coming together.

    looking forward to getting on to the interior and deck, I plan on having a little built in ice box/galley and a tiny marine stove... just like Johnson had in his boat!

    yeah the centerboard box was a whole station further aft than I had guessed it would be, no problem, and the mast was about 8 inches behind where I guessed it would be. Mine will be about 4 inches ahead of Johnson has his in the original.

    the rails look alot like the rubstrips on the rails of a fishing schooner, mounted at the rail, no scuppers. I suppose they would not hold much water with the boat heeled, and I anticipate this hull will get VERY little water on deck from wave action. the deck in Johnsons time should have been watertight, it is ship lapped pine.

    I am going to finish the tramsom differently on my boat, carry it above the deck and end the splash rails on it also a sculling notch, I think this will have a nice look to it.

    also.... I'm just noticing in your photos C. is there a paint pattern on the deck? I didnt notice it in person but in your photo the camera seems to be picking up an area on the deck of darker blue paint in two swooping arcs from amidships to the rail... and similar at the stern... Remember the model schooner in the same room with similar radiused blue paint scheem on it's deck?!


    Oh this is good!! Thanks for the photos, fun day.

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Centennial

    oh yeah and ... Blackburn's Great Republic in background!

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by callsign222 View Post
    Some detail from the overlapping planks at the bow of the Dan's Centennial build. Dan has an interesting story about this and how this dory-specific technique to was passed down to him in unwitting vestigial form. He has alternated left and right, CENTENNIAL is all in one direction. This is a typical dory bow, with no false stem.


    Interesting, the older Scottish salmon cobles were planked up the same way.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  17. #87
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by callsign222 View Post
    I swung by Dan's place the other day and check out his Centennial build. We also went to Gloucester and checked out the original CENTENNIAL at the Cape Ann Museum.







    One thing that we found very interesting was the lack of scuppers along the prominent toe rail. Where did all the water go that came aboard? Down into the bilges? Alfred Johnson has a pump, you can see the egress on the port side of the boat near the coming of the aft cockpit--- apparently a hose vented overboard? I wonder if the current toe rail is not the ocean-crossing toe rail, but it's definitely old.

    Also surprising was finding that the centerboard trunk does not run from bulkhead to bulkhead as Dan surmised, but is much smaller in reality. There is a false longitudinal bulkhead that runs from the front of the CB trunk to the next forward actual bulkhead.

    Anyway, still some questions for Dan to puzzle out, but his new Centennial Dory is coming along nicely.
    did you notice the deck paint pattern in person?... the deck just looked faded and gray to me maybe I was so busy on the structural details...

    compare the deck o centennial, where her bowsprit ends and radiused out to the rail with the paint scheme bow and stern on this schooner model...? ! light deck/ radiused darker at bowsprit and along waterways.


    definately got to incorporate that paint scheme in the final boat

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Interesting, the older Scottish salmon cobles were planked up the same way.
    interesting, similar plank finishing has been found in old bateau boat from the Champlain area and deep woods Maine, also a Chamberlain dory from the late 1800's has similar planking, on display at mystic Seaport... it's a fun and unusual way to finish the stem... if a little less durable than a oak cut water.

    original centennial is finished that way but with te plank overlap all on the same side... I've been alternating.
    Last edited by Daniel Noyes; 12-05-2016 at 08:15 AM.

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    oh yeah and ... Blackburn's Great Republic in background!
    I think all eyes are on the Centennial, great looking boat. We definitely see the paint pattern, very nice touch by the builder/owner. While examining Barbashela's 1921 photo, we discovered a similar artistic flair, a personal touch.





    We can't wait to see the paint job and the galley. I like how the stem is coming together and how you are copying the original where you can, while making builder's decisions along the way to incorporate new methods and materials as well as your own desire. Is there a yuloh in your boat's future?

    kb

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    Default Re: Centennial

    Gardner's chapter on Centennial notes the difficulty of getting the details and construction of the boat. He also writes; , " I can hardly conceive of anyone wishing to reproduce a replica of Centennial for any practical or useful purpose. Certainly not for cruising. She would be horribly uncomfortable. And for a single handed crossing of the Atlantic, there are much more commodious craft now available." John didn't figure on Dan! He also notes that the stem fastening was quite early, figuring that the false stem that is now common was a later innovation. Dories of this vintage are very rare.

    I could not clearly see Eric in the photos but I think you were privileged to work with Eric Ronnberg Jr. foremost authority on Gloucester schooner, and premier model maker. He did the series of fishing schooners Tom Hoyne used in his paintings now at Mystic Seaport.

    The decorations are great, I didn't pick them up when I saw Centennial. This kind of thing doesn't seem to be unusual in that I have seen a number of open dories with semicircular decorations on the seats. I did them this spring in mine. Not sure how it was done historically. I made a template, but I suspect that it might have been nothing more than a pencil line and a steady hand.
    Ben Fuller
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  21. #91
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Definitely following this thread with interest. Thanks for documenting your build, Daniel.

    I've always loved the Alpha Dory, although she looks like a bit of a wet ride! Centennial should be a bit drier.

    Cheers!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by signalcharlie View Post
    I think all eyes are on the Centennial, great looking boat. We definitely see the paint pattern, very nice touch by the builder/owner. While examining Barbashela's 1921 photo, we discovered a similar artistic flair, a personal touch.
    kb
    nice job getting that skiff back on the water... Centennial isn't in quite as bad shape but almost, you can see the carpet through her chines.

    No Yahlo planned, I'd use an oar to scull her, there are photos of centennial with oarlocks on blocks mounted on the deck, those will be include on this boat (no engine)

    I've been cruising Craigs list and local antique marts for galvanized pulleys and a tiny cast iron stove, no stove yet...

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    Gardner's chapter on Centennial notes the difficulty of getting the details and construction of the boat. He also writes; , " I can hardly conceive of anyone wishing to reproduce a replica of Centennial for any practical or useful purpose. Certainly not for cruising. She would be horribly uncomfortable. And for a single handed crossing of the Atlantic, there are much more commodious craft now available." John didn't figure on Dan! He also notes that the stem fastening was quite early, figuring that the false stem that is now common was a later innovation. Dories of this vintage are very rare.

    I could not clearly see Eric in the photos but I think you were privileged to work with Eric Ronnberg Jr. foremost authority on Gloucester schooner, and premier model maker. He did the series of fishing schooners Tom Hoyne used in his paintings now at Mystic Seaport.

    The decorations are great, I didn't pick them up when I saw Centennial. This kind of thing doesn't seem to be unusual in that I have seen a number of open dories with semicircular decorations on the seats. I did them this spring in mine. Not sure how it was done historically. I made a template, but I suspect that it might have been nothing more than a pencil line and a steady hand.
    It was a real stroke of luck meeting Erick there, he showed us around the museaum including some of the breath taking schooner models he has done.

    I too noticed Gardners schepticism about Centennial as a total package, I wonder were people camp cruising open boats as much at the time he wrote that article? I rember the Idea of a Raid was completely silly to me first time I read about it in WB! who would sleep in a dory! ? it just was not done around here.

    I think Centennials centerboard, shoal draft, blue water ability, ease of construction, tabernackle mast, and incredibly rich history, may combine to make her a very relevant little pocket cruiser/camp cruiser/sail and oar boat.

  24. #94
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    Default Re: Centennial

    my favorite line by Gardner about Centennial...

    "Do old boats dream dreams? Pulled out on dry land, snugly tucked away on shore, do their decrepit timbers still shiver faintly, remembering old blasts, the sickening pitch of mountainous seas, the gale's maniacal scream? Who knows? But ghostly memories do eminate from their ancient bones with power to beguile the viewer, and coming into the presence of this patriarch of dories the visitor is moved. She is the Centennial."



  25. #95
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    nice job getting that skiff back on the water... Centennial isn't in quite as bad shape but almost, you can see the carpet through her chines.
    Thanks, that was fun. Looks like all Centennial needs is some caulk, or stuff some of that carpet in there

    Cheers

    kb

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Centennial

    What was the ergonomic of sitting in the cockpit? The rails do not make it seem as though you could sit on the side-deck. -- Wade

  27. #97
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by wtarzia View Post
    What was the ergonomic of sitting in the cockpit? The rails do not make it seem as though you could sit on the side-deck. -- Wade
    Yeah, I'm not totally convinced that the coamings have to be so huge as they are on CENTENNIAL. Those are going to be some big thick cushions to make sitting on the edge of the cockpits comfortable. I'm actually more receptive to cutting bigger cockpits, but we'll see what Dan decides. The wonderful thing about building your own boat-- you can always change it.

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by wtarzia View Post
    What was the ergonomic of sitting in the cockpit? The rails do not make it seem as though you could sit on the side-deck. -- Wade
    Quote Originally Posted by callsign222 View Post
    Yeah, I'm not totally convinced that the coamings have to be so huge as they are on CENTENNIAL. Those are going to be some big thick cushions to make sitting on the edge of the cockpits comfortable. I'm actually more receptive to cutting bigger cockpits, but we'll see what Dan decides. The wonderful thing about building your own boat-- you can always change it.
    How far below the deck is the cockpit floor? Maybe you stood with your back braced against the cockpit coaming.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  29. #99
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    How far below the deck is the cockpit floor? Maybe you stood with your back braced against the cockpit coaming.
    Cockpit is shallow. From the two photos that seem to exist, he used the aft cockpit as a foot well sitting on the stern deck or sat inside it, feet stretched out I would think.
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  30. #100
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    Default Re: Centennial

    The helm cockpit is the width of the coaming and paneled and calked as best as was possible, the paneling extends to the bottom of the dory. all the photos I have seen of Johnson in the boat he is sitting (possibly on a small seat) down in the cockpit, almost up to his armpits.

    The pump built into the deck dewaters this open helm cockpit area. also a small binnacle/storage area is built into the helms forward face, with a little sliding door, I may replicate that, interesting touch.

    I am thinking most of my sailing will be done sitting on the deck to windward, I'll need a hiking stick.



    but here is an actual action shot of Blackburn in his dory... sitting on the deck

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    Cockpit is shallow. From the two photos that seem to exist, he used the aft cockpit as a foot well sitting on the stern deck or sat inside it, feet stretched out I would think.
    I was wondering whether the lack of an aft coaming was original or it had gone missing. It would be originally left off to allow the use of the aft deck as a seat.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  32. #102
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Seems as if it would be awkward to steer, sitting directly aft.

  33. #103
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    Default Re: Centennial

    How is the build coming along?

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Centennial

    Quote Originally Posted by wtarzia View Post
    How is the build coming along?
    stalled for the moment, I've had a nasty cold for a week and a half which hasn't helped... and life has a way of messing with my plans.

    I have been tinkering with the idea of building a little cast iron stove... we'll see

  35. #105
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    Default Re: Centennial

    The close shot of your bow planking showed a couple of tight knots in the wood. What did the original wood look like for knots? What's your plan for sealing those knots in place?

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