Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

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  • cstevens
    Dreaming of a boat
    • Nov 2014
    • 6357

    Re: Restoration of BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Originally posted by Dody
    Awesome Chris, I really like it! Would that mean your living-space would move into the Pilothouse? If so, it not only means much more air and light, but also you've got a sheltered space to sit and enjoy your surroundings instead of sitting "in the cellar" so to speak.

    Also, you would have the sleeping-quarters separate from the living-area, something really wonderful if one feels like going to bed early one day, or, when it should get late one day you won't wake up in the morning looking straight at the mess left behind from last evening coz everyone was just too tired to do something about it.

    Only thing I'm mixing up at the moment: the original plan for sleeping was forward or aft? In theory you don't need standing headroom for the sleeping-area ... or have your son's sleeping-quarter aft, he'll be very happy about it when he grows up !

    Sent from my SM-G900FD using Tapatalk
    Well, I haven't worked it out completely or drawn up a layout diagram to see where things would actually fit but my thought is that the increased room in the pilothouse would allow for a small dinette which would convert to a bunk. That would provide a nicer place to sit while underway (assuming that I can also solve the noise problem) as well as a berth for Dash. It might also be possible to move the galley up as well, which I prefer. There are some other complications to deal with, like placement of the dry stack, but I think that can be solved.

    It's true that having a completely separate sleeping quarters for Dash has advantages. But there are disadvantages as well, particularly while he is still young enough to want his parents close by at night. And it would definitely be nice to have more space to sit inside, with large windows and good visibility for all.

    More drawings needed in any case...
    - Chris

    Any single boat project will always expand to encompass the set of all possible boat projects.

    Life is short. Go boating now!

    Comment

    • cstevens
      Dreaming of a boat
      • Nov 2014
      • 6357

      Re: Restoration of BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

      Originally posted by warby12
      Hi Chris, this is my second post after following this forum for about a year! At this rate up will be up to three.....soon!

      First, we live on a fibreglass boat, so I keep a low profile, I love this forum, becase I love wood, and the people seem nice Now I know little about your boat's history or your personal aims, but I will say that I love boats where you can see out. Always seems a shame to travel to a beautiful destination and then have to sit below, looking at the same old bulkheads (no matter how beautiful). So any boat that allows you to soak up your surroundings, in good weather and bad is a winner. This different configuration you are proposing seems to tick that box. Also it leaves you a great back deck area and you can put an awning over the boom.

      Plus! It looks really really nice. I want it!

      Not sure how the change figures in the traditional scheme of that particular boat, but if it were me I would be very tempted.

      Cheers Stephen
      Thanks for contributing one of your very few posts to this thread Stephen I fully agree about being able to see out. It's particularly important in this part of the world, where we get enough rain and weather that we often end up inside where good light and visibility are crucial in staving off cabin fever, irritability and mutiny among the crew. As for tradition... well as has been pointed out to me before Petrel is not going to be "original" with any of my planned modifications so I think I'm free to do as I please as long as it's not ugly. But a larger pilothouse is not unusual at all, either as built or as a later addition. If I do end up going that route I might try to take measurements from some other boats like Sea Maid and keep the design as close to standard practice as possible though.
      Last edited by cstevens; 10-09-2017, 05:05 PM.
      - Chris

      Any single boat project will always expand to encompass the set of all possible boat projects.

      Life is short. Go boating now!

      Comment

      • G.Davis
        Junior Member
        • Jun 2016
        • 1

        Re: Restoration of BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

        Hi Chris.

        I've recently joined the club of old trawler owners myself and I think what the additions the previous owners of my boat can add to the sample size of different looks.
        Unfortunately I don't have any good profile shots my self but the broker for the previous owners has left the ad up on the wooden boat website: https://www.woodenboat.com/boats-for-sale/bc-venture.

        The configuration they went with gives lots of space in the lower portion of the cabin which includes the galley, a dinette, a bench seat along the port side which is long and deep enough for myself (6' 3" tall) to comfortably sleep on as well as the head. I think there is a big difference in the space forward of the pilot station of the two boats as in mine there is only enough space for a vee-berth which requires the galley and dinette to be aft of the engine.

        While this configuration doesn't entirely lend it's self to a second separate cabin it is easy enough to create to separate spaces to gain a reasonable amount of privacy overnight. in the case of BC Venture the forward berth the pilot house and the aft portion of the main house could all be separate if I add a bulkhead at the after end of the engine compartment.

        I'm not sure if this style is possible with the structure in Petrel but I think it has the potential to gives lots of comfortable interior space for the less than sunny weather we get of the west coast while also allowing for lots of windows, and places to site outside, especially when not underway (the pilot house roof makes a great seat to eat dinner on).

        I hope this helps

        -Gareth

        Comment

        • ulav8r
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2012
          • 417

          Re: Restoration of BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

          Originally posted by cstevens


          .
          Very elegant look. Rear cabin would look like you were carrying cargo, not like a part of your boat.

          Comment

          • BBSebens
            No Member
            • Jan 2008
            • 3872

            Re: Restoration of BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

            Originally posted by cstevens
            I should be working right now but am suffering from boat withdrawal so instead I'm noodling on Petrel cabin designs... What about a larger pilothouse instead of an aft cabin?



            In this version the pilothouse is extended aft by the addition of two windows, and would be wider as well. It changes the look of the boat more and is probably more work to complete than the aft cabin layout, but we would end up with a lot more usable inside space without giving up too much deck space I think. And I have to give a nod to Tad Roberts here since I have shamelessly poached the cabin design from one of his boats, suitably modified to fit Petrel of course.

            Rather quite a lot more work, especially if you are going to widen out the house to eliminate the side sections of the existing cabin top. May as well tear off the entire house and start from scratch. I wonder who you could find to draw that up for you...

            I would run the forestay to the top of the pilot house rather than the stem, but thats just my Certified Eyeball talking.
            There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

            Ben Sebens, RN

            El Toro Dinghy Springline
            12’ San Francisco Pelican Sounder
            Laguna 18

            Comment

            • cstevens
              Dreaming of a boat
              • Nov 2014
              • 6357

              Re: Restoration of BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

              Originally posted by G.Davis
              Hi Chris.

              I've recently joined the club of old trawler owners myself and I think what the additions the previous owners of my boat can add to the sample size of different looks.
              Unfortunately I don't have any good profile shots my self but the broker for the previous owners has left the ad up on the wooden boat website: https://www.woodenboat.com/boats-for-sale/bc-venture.

              The configuration they went with gives lots of space in the lower portion of the cabin which includes the galley, a dinette, a bench seat along the port side which is long and deep enough for myself (6' 3" tall) to comfortably sleep on as well as the head. I think there is a big difference in the space forward of the pilot station of the two boats as in mine there is only enough space for a vee-berth which requires the galley and dinette to be aft of the engine.

              While this configuration doesn't entirely lend it's self to a second separate cabin it is easy enough to create to separate spaces to gain a reasonable amount of privacy overnight. in the case of BC Venture the forward berth the pilot house and the aft portion of the main house could all be separate if I add a bulkhead at the after end of the engine compartment.

              I'm not sure if this style is possible with the structure in Petrel but I think it has the potential to gives lots of comfortable interior space for the less than sunny weather we get of the west coast while also allowing for lots of windows, and places to site outside, especially when not underway (the pilot house roof makes a great seat to eat dinner on).

              I hope this helps

              -Gareth
              Congratulations on your new boat Gareth! She's about the same size as Petrel but, as you note, the flush deck, pilothouse-forward boats like BC Venture don't seem to leave much room forward. The trunk cabin on Petrel, while not spacious, does have room for a v-berth, an enclosed head and a small galley.

              I'm not sure how much of this thread you have read but if you go to the beginning you can see a photo of how she looked when I first found her, with an aft cabin very much like the one on BC Venture, although separated from the pilothouse rather than connected as on your boat. There was a full galley and dinette/bunk aft but no room for a head. I thought it was too bulky for Petrel though, so I cut it off. Which I don't regret for a second, but it does leave me with a bit of a choice to make regarding accommodations.
              - Chris

              Any single boat project will always expand to encompass the set of all possible boat projects.

              Life is short. Go boating now!

              Comment

              • cstevens
                Dreaming of a boat
                • Nov 2014
                • 6357

                Re: Restoration of BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

                Originally posted by ulav8r
                Very elegant look. Rear cabin would look like you were carrying cargo, not like a part of your boat.
                Thanks. I think that my wife feels the same way. She's never been a fan of the separate aft cabin. Which is certainly a consideration.

                Originally posted by BBSebens
                Rather quite a lot more work, especially if you are going to widen out the house to eliminate the side sections of the existing cabin top. May as well tear off the entire house and start from scratch. I wonder who you could find to draw that up for you...

                I would run the forestay to the top of the pilot house rather than the stem, but thats just my Certified Eyeball talking.
                Hmmm. Good point Ben. Maybe a job for T.R. I do love the design he did for the pilothouse on Sassafrass as an example of a similar project. I think I need to be a little closer to doing the work before giving him a ring though, so as to not waste his time. (Tad if you are reading this, I think Ben is right - only so far I can go with this on my own. I've been thinking that if I just start hacking away I'll probably make a mess of it so I'll need the services of a professional.)

                In any case I'm not about to start cutting off the existing house any time soon. This more of an exercise to see what we want to end up with since that will guide my work on the aft deck one way or another. But I'm liking this direction a lot. It does seem more balanced and well-integrated than any of the aft cabin layouts.
                - Chris

                Any single boat project will always expand to encompass the set of all possible boat projects.

                Life is short. Go boating now!

                Comment

                • cstevens
                  Dreaming of a boat
                  • Nov 2014
                  • 6357

                  Re: Restoration of BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

                  Here's a small double ender with a cabin similar to what I'm contemplating. I couldn't find much info about it though - apparently a Garden design?

                  - Chris

                  Any single boat project will always expand to encompass the set of all possible boat projects.

                  Life is short. Go boating now!

                  Comment

                  • Dody
                    Tonga!
                    • Jun 2017
                    • 979

                    Re: Restoration of BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

                    Originally posted by cstevens
                    Here's a small double ender with a cabin similar to what I'm contemplating. I couldn't find much info about it though - apparently a Garden design?

                    Chris, I hope you won't do away with your lovely rounded front of cabin and rounded pilothouse??? In my opinion this would be a real loss.
                    fair winds, Dody
                    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain
                    www.tongabonds.com

                    Comment

                    • cstevens
                      Dreaming of a boat
                      • Nov 2014
                      • 6357

                      Re: Restoration of BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

                      Originally posted by Dody
                      Chris, I hope you won't do away with your lovely rounded front of cabin and rounded pilothouse??? In my opinion this would be a real loss.
                      No, not at all Dody. I would want to keep the rounded shape for sure. I just meant the Garden boat as an example of a larger pilothouse on a hull similar to Petrel. A better example might be a couple of Tad Roberts' designs:

                      Northcoast 34



                      Johnson 285



                      both of which have a rounded cabin and pilothouse, and which were the inspiration for my original rendering.
                      - Chris

                      Any single boat project will always expand to encompass the set of all possible boat projects.

                      Life is short. Go boating now!

                      Comment

                      • MoritzSchwarzer
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2015
                        • 352

                        Re: Restoration of BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

                        Originally posted by BBSebens
                        I would run the forestay to the top of the pilot house rather than the stem, but thats just my Certified Eyeball talking.
                        I second that. The long distance from the stem to the mast makes the angle of the stay really low. Which means it pulls the mast forward rather than down and it looks like it would actually make a hazard on the foredeck.

                        Concerning pilothouse layout, take a look at Paul Gartsides motorsailers and Promised Land, a 32ft troller that fits the look of your sketch quite well. I really dig the dinette bench with flip backrest that doubles as a helmseat. He might be another good choice to design a new cabin.

                        Comment

                        • cstevens
                          Dreaming of a boat
                          • Nov 2014
                          • 6357

                          Re: Restoration of BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

                          Originally posted by MoritzSchwarzer
                          I second that. The long distance from the stem to the mast makes the angle of the stay really low. Which means it pulls the mast forward rather than down and it looks like it would actually make a hazard on the foredeck.

                          Concerning pilothouse layout, take a look at Paul Gartsides motorsailers and Promised Land, a 32ft troller that fits the look of your sketch quite well. I really dig the dinette bench with flip backrest that doubles as a helmseat. He might be another good choice to design a new cabin.
                          Thanks Moritz. Promised Land is one of my favorites as well. As for the forestay... Perhaps. However I'll note that both of Tad's designs and Promised Land all run the forestay to the stem. I would imagine that it's easier to deal with the forces on the mast that way rather than trying to bring them down to the hull through the cabin structure. A heavy dinghy swinging from the boom would put a pretty good load in tension on the stay. For myself I'd rather have that load going directly to the hull rather than trying to pull the top off the pilothouse. And since Petrel is rigged that way when her current mast is stepped I can attest that rather than being a hazard on the foredeck, the stay is a very handy thing to hold onto when moving around the boat. Although you do have to remember to duck!
                          - Chris

                          Any single boat project will always expand to encompass the set of all possible boat projects.

                          Life is short. Go boating now!

                          Comment

                          • DeniseO30
                            Thinks too much..
                            • Jan 2009
                            • 4674

                            Re: Restoration of BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

                            Just tossing my input on the pile Chris,

                            A few hundred pounds are not the same as thousands unless you be going for salmon! my guess, Petrel's mast can go anywhere with basic support. Many many sailboats have deck stepped masts and a compression post or beam under it and the may have at least the same if not more down force.



                            Back in the muggies here again

                            Welcome home Chris!
                            Denise, Bristol PA, retired from HVAC business, & boat restoration and building

                            Comment

                            • cstevens
                              Dreaming of a boat
                              • Nov 2014
                              • 6357

                              Re: Restoration of BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

                              Originally posted by DeniseO30
                              Just tossing my input on the pile Chris,

                              A few hundred pounds are not the same as thousands unless you be going for salmon! my guess, Petrel's mast can go anywhere with basic support. Many many sailboats have deck stepped masts and a compression post or beam under it and the may have at least the same if not more down force.



                              Back in the muggies here again

                              Welcome home Chris!
                              Thanks Denise. Not home yet though, unfortunately. Just feeding my habit with drawings and daydreaming rather than actual boat work since I'm still away. And I think we are suffering the same weather here in Charlotte. 80s and wet-dog-humid. Ugh.

                              As for the mast - good point. Stepping it shouldn't be a problem. But the question was really about whether the forestay should still run all the way forward if the mast is moved aft. However that's not a critical decision yet. Right now I just need a general idea of the eventual layout (enlarged pilothouse, aft cabin over the hold or aft cabin over the cockpit) as that choice will affect what I do with the aft deck when I get to that project. Enlarging the pilothouse seems like the best option all around although I say that with some trepidation as I know it will be a major project. Doesn't have to happen right away though, or any time soon really.
                              - Chris

                              Any single boat project will always expand to encompass the set of all possible boat projects.

                              Life is short. Go boating now!

                              Comment

                              • Peerie Maa
                                Old Grey Inquisitive One
                                • Oct 2008
                                • 62422

                                Re: Restoration of BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

                                Originally posted by cstevens
                                Right now I just need a general idea of the eventual layout (enlarged pilothouse, aft cabin over the hold or aft cabin over the cockpit) as that choice will affect what I do with the aft deck when I get to that project. Enlarging the pilothouse seems like the best option all around although I say that with some trepidation as I know it will be a major project. Doesn't have to happen right away though, or any time soon really.
                                Have you crawled under the aft deck with a tape and graph paper to measure and plot the floor area at the level,of the cabin sole yet? That might help crystallise your thinking when you know what you have got to work with.
                                It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

                                The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
                                The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

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