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Thread: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

  1. #2626
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Wedged tenons... Frame saw... Sigh. I would love to do those things. Some day. I think that's several projects down the list though. Right now I just need to finish these shelves so I can get all my tools and assorted other odds and ends off the floor of my workshop. Then I need to make a bench for the train layout that I promised Dash I would build for him upstairs. And finish tearing up the old tile floor in the kitchen. Plus I *really* need to refinish the wherry. And Lucky Truck needs a new exhaust... And somewhere in there I need to get back to making frames for Petrel. (I'm now starting to pace in circles and mutter incoherently about entropy).
    Well there is that; "ask a woodworker and get boat builder kind of answers Chris, hardboard or or even underlayment plywood backer on the shelves works for me because, it's almost a guarantee stuff is going to fall between the shelves and the wall.
    You could also do what they did on Old chairs with heavy wire, do the Spanish windlass. Just about everybody has binding twisting wire laying around

    And I only made 8 mortises over 2 weeks for my canoe seat frames lol.

    Your skills are increasing exponentially Chris!

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 03-05-2018 at 02:48 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  2. #2627
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Chris you must prioritize. First you finish the shelves, then you make the framesaw (takes about 30 minutes), then you build a bench with wedged tennons for your son. Really it's nothing to it, you just make the tennons longer and put a hole in the end. Sloppy fit is ok (even desired to some degree) the wedge pulls it tight. And the saw is good to have, rips and crosscuts wood (no saw changing) plus it cuts metals and plastic. No need to use a router for the tennons. And when you make the mortise the same width as the chisel you will be faster chiseling than routering.

  3. #2628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    Chris you must prioritize. First you finish the shelves, then you make the framesaw (takes about 30 minutes), then you build a bench with wedged tennons for your son. Really it's nothing to it, you just make the tennons longer and put a hole in the end. Sloppy fit is ok (even desired to some degree) the wedge pulls it tight. And the saw is good to have, rips and crosscuts wood (no saw changing) plus it cuts metals and plastic. No need to use a router for the tennons. And when you make the mortise the same width as the chisel you will be faster chiseling than routering.
    Sounds like an audition for the woodwright's shop! go with the power tools Chris or at least a healthy combination of hand and Power!!

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  4. #2629
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Just a quick update to let everyone know I'm still here. The demands of putting food on the table and paying the mortgage are taking precedence over boat projects right now. But Spring is creeping up on us here in Seattle so a return to boat work cannot be very far off. This weekend was just about perfect for it. Sunny and pleasant but not too hot. So of course I spent most of my time inside building a new website for my business instead. That's the way it goes sometimes.

  5. #2630
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Just a quick update to let everyone know I'm still here. The demands of putting food on the table and paying the mortgage are taking precedence over boat projects right now. But Spring is creeping up on us here in Seattle so a return to boat work cannot be very far off. This weekend was just about perfect for it. Sunny and pleasant but not too hot. So of course I spent most of my time inside building a new website for my business instead. That's the way it goes sometimes.
    Keep up the good fight Chris!!
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 03-12-2018 at 09:59 AM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  6. #2631
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    No boat progress yet but the workshop shelves are done, finally.



    In the end my M&T joints were not tight enough to stabilize the structure on their own even with the plywood shelves fastened in place. So I added a couple of gussets in the back. That did the trick. All in all I'm happy with them. You may say they are just your common-or-garden-variety basement shelves and I could have knocked together something just as good in a weekend using dimensional lumber and basic carpentry instead of taking several months to do the job. And you would be correct. But by taking the long road I learned a few things and that was worth the time and effort.

  7. #2632
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    They look great & the learning is/was a good thing! IIRC you do some programming. Ever have a day where you didn't learn something? Even if what you learned was how not to do it...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  8. #2633
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    They look great & the learning is/was a good thing! IIRC you do some programming. Ever have a day where you didn't learn something? Even if what you learned was how not to do it...
    Thanks Garret. And funny about programming and learning... Over the last two decades or so I have had the great fortune to make a career out of creating new things with technology. Just in the last couple of years I have had the opportunity to engineer a new AI/Machine Learning platform for a startup tech company, develop an interactive Transporter experience for the Star Trek 50th Anniversary exhibit at the MoPOP museum here in Seattle, help Intel design a new chip-based security system for "Internet of Things" devices and a create a method for delivering customized mobile phones to refugees being resettled in the US. It's rarely easy but it's usually enjoyable and I'm always learning something new. I figure if I ever stop learning that will be the sign that it's time to quit.

  9. #2634
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Wow - you're many levels beyond me - but sounds like fun! Beam me out to Seattle for a visit, would you?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  10. #2635
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Make that two to beam up... would love to see Petrel first hand.

  11. #2636
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Wow - you're many levels beyond me - but sounds like fun! Beam me out to Seattle for a visit, would you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldad View Post
    Make that two to beam up... would love to see Petrel first hand.
    Cheers Garret and Grant. You are welcome any time. You might get put to work though!

    Here's a video of the Transporter installation if you are interested. That was a pretty fun project.


  12. #2637
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Cheers Garret and Grant. You are welcome any time. You might get put to work though!

    Here's a video of the Transporter installation if you are interested. That was a pretty fun project.

    Hope you get back sometime soon Chris! I must admit I miss this project!
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 04-02-2018 at 04:20 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  13. #2638
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    I'm not gone Denise But work and life are conspiring to keep me from making progress on Petrel right now so I haven't had anything to report. I'll be back to it as soon as I can though. But I did check on things down at the marina this afternoon and I see that I have a new neighbor.





    This neat little Monk bridgedeck is getting a bit of TLC and the work I can see appears quite well done. The interior is pretty gutted as well. Not sure what the story is with her though.

  14. #2639
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    I'm not gone Denise But work and life are conspiring to keep me from making progress on Petrel right now so I haven't had anything to report. I'll be back to it as soon as I can though. But I did check on things down at the marina this afternoon and I see that I have a new neighbor.





    This neat little Monk bridgedeck is getting a bit of TLC and the work I can see appears quite well done. The interior is pretty gutted as well. Not sure what the story is with her though.
    I know it can get difficult at times just getting a little canoe ready to use in another 3 or 4 weeks it's making me crazy plus I have the ducker sitting outside. All the best!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  15. #2640
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Good to see you back Chris. With its short aft cockpit, that little monk looks like it jumped out of Ed Monk's 1939 book "Modern Boat Building". I wonder if it was built by a small yard, or in a back yard...

  16. #2641
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Cheers Evan. Yes, I agree that boat does have a bit of a backyard feel. Looks well-built but the details are not as polished as you would expect from a professional. The thing I am always struck by with these designs is how very many variations Ed Monk Sr. did on that basic layout. With a few exceptions they all seem to be just a bit different from each other. Seems like he could have settled on maybe four or five basic variations in different lengths, but instead you get different stem profiles. Different house details. Many small variations in length within a foot or two of 40'. Hard chine and round bilge. It would sure be interesting to arrange a "bridgedeck rendezvous" and get as many of them together as possible.

  17. #2642
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    I am excited about this thread as the Bowpicker has been on my boat bucket list for a decade, plus. Planned to buy one to restore at 65 but am looking at one tomorrow (I am 60). 1932 28 ft. Thanks for this thread and practical work and how to do.

  18. #2643
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by lchrisns View Post
    I am excited about this thread as the Bowpicker has been on my boat bucket list for a decade, plus. Planned to buy one to restore at 65 but am looking at one tomorrow (I am 60). 1932 28 ft. Thanks for this thread and practical work and how to do.
    Good luck with the bowpicker Chris. Post some photos here if you like - I'd love to see it. Old bowpickers don't come up for sale that often. Have you seen the Ida J?

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...er-Gill-Netter

    Was for sale a while back and might still be. Lovely little boat.

    As for my own project... Petrel sits patiently waiting for me to get back to work. But I've been in Dallas, Denver and Indianapolis on business over the last few weeks. Probably San Francisco next week. Hard to get anything done on the boat with that sort of schedule. Hopefully things will settle down a bit soon and I can get back to it.

  19. #2644
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Good luck with the bowpicker Chris. Post some photos here if you like - I'd love to see it. Old bowpickers don't come up for sale that often. Have you seen the Ida J?

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...er-Gill-Netter

    Was for sale a while back and might still be. Lovely little boat.

    As for my own project... Petrel sits patiently waiting for me to get back to work. But I've been in Dallas, Denver and Indianapolis on business over the last few weeks. Probably San Francisco next week. Hard to get anything done on the boat with that sort of schedule. Hopefully things will settle down a bit soon and I can get back to it.
    Okay what's a bow picker? I think I know but I'm going to go look it up.

    Do you hate like or tolerate all the traveling Chris?
    I used to love to travel but it was almost never for business now I'm lucky if I leave my area lol.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  20. #2645
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Okay what's a bow picker? I think I know but I'm going to go look it up.

    Do you hate like or tolerate all the traveling Chris?
    I used to love to travel but it was almost never for business now I'm lucky if I leave my area lol.

    Hey Denise! A bowpicker is a fishing boat - typically a gillnetter - in which the pilothouse is aft of the fishing gear and fish hold. The net is deployed over the bow instead of the stern. Here's an old one:




    Here's what they look like nowadays:





    I don't love or hate the travel. It's just a necessity sometimes. Would rather not do it as it takes me away from family and from working on Petrel but it's my job to do it sometimes so there you are. I traveled a lot on business in my twenties but fortunately this amount of it is really rare for me these days.

  21. #2646
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Hey Denise! A bowpicker is a fishing boat - typically a gillnetter - in which the pilothouse is aft of the fishing gear and fish hold. The net is deployed over the bow instead of the stern. Here's an old one:




    Here's what they look like nowadays:





    I don't love or hate the travel. It's just a necessity sometimes. Would rather not do it as it takes me away from family and from working on Petrel but it's my job to do it sometimes so there you are. I traveled a lot on business in my twenties but fortunately this amount of it is really rare for me these days.
    Hey Chris! Thanks for the pictures yes that's kind of what I was guessing.

    My 15ft personal canoe re-canvas refinish is almost done! The last coat of finish on the woodwork is drying as I write this.

    Hopefully I'll be back working on the ducker pretty soon!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  22. #2647
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    That's lovely Denise. How about some photos on the water?

  23. #2648
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    That's lovely Denise. How about some photos on the water?
    Pretty soon Chris! I just need to finish the seat hanging (forgot to varnish the spacer dowels and polish the brass stem bands.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  24. #2649

    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Bowpicker fishing boats are very rarely seen in BC, all the ones I've seen had Washington plates on them.

  25. #2650
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Now that our intrepid restorer has some nifty shelves is it time to get on with the reframing? Asking for a friend.

    Bump
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  26. #2651
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Ah Jim, I went down to Petrel the other day and stared at things for a bit. That’s about as close as I’m going to get to progress for a while though. I’m in crunch time on a couple of big projects and I haven’t had a free day in weeks. I’ve had to get my fix in small doses on other people’s boats instead. But I’m still here. As soon as I get a free weekend I’ll be putting more frames in and I’m still hoping to get the new aft deck built this year.

  27. #2652
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    I'm doing that with the Ducker Chris.. don't even uncover it lately. I'm going to get some help and really really try to get it into the basement now that my canoe is done. On the other hand. I bought another old truck and plan to sell the other. but neither one is ready for any kind of trip LOL The red and gray is the one I'm selling. Been wanting an extended cab type for many years.

    Last edited by DeniseO30; 05-11-2018 at 10:01 AM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  28. #2653
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Looking back, the last time I did any actual work on Petrel was back in February. Ouch. Time to get back to it I think! However in the intervening months a few things have happened to change our goals for Petrel a bit. Some of those things are still in the works, to be revealed at a later date, but the main change is that we have given up on the idea of overnight cruising aboard. Instead our plan is to use Petrel for fair-weather day cruises around Seattle. More picnic boat than overnighter. Meaning that accommodations below can be more spartan or nonexistent, and that space in the pilothouse is not so critical either as we will be piloting from the external helm most of the time.

    Instead, what we need most is a comfortable place to sit on deck with room for a few chairs, a table, grill and a cooler, and a minimal head below. Easy enough! Except... I demolished the aft deck last winter. So that's not ideal. And the frames aft do still need to be sistered/repaired/replaced, along with a few other structural repairs. And she still needs paint on the cabin and decks. Plenty to do then. Better get on with it.

    First order of business is to make her operational again. The main thing not working right now is the helm, as I removed the deck beam to which the hydraulic cylinder was mounted.



    My plan here is to make a new mount for it by running a beam across between the bilge stringers. I think I have a suitable piece of AYC that will do that job. But first I took the opportunity to pull out the old hydraulic lines and clean things up a bit:



    Then, since I had tools and time (a dangerous combination) I worked on removing the last part of the old aft deck:





    My plan here is to build a new aft deck at the level of the pilothouse sole. The permanent deck still needs to wait until I get all the frame repairs done. I had hoped to have that work done by now, or at least well along, but the demands of my day job have kept me from making any progress over the last few months. No matter though. I think I can build something temporary but workable that will let us use the boat this summer while I chip away at the hull repairs. So that's the next job.

    Anyhow, it's not much but it's progress. I'm going to go daydream about electric motors now...




  29. #2654
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    There'll be plenty of room for batteries!
    Whatever you do will be "okay" Chris.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  30. #2655
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    ^^^ That was my thought as well Denise. If we could get 4-5 hours of battery run time at 7 kts that would be plenty for day cruising. And having really quiet boat would be a nice thing. Not cheap though and there are plenty of more important things to do first. But I'm thinking about it.

    In the meantime, more progress on the new mount for the steering cylinder. Spent a couple of hours today making a template:

    First, find the right position for the cross beam through trial and error and guesswork:



    Then make a template using doorskin strips and hot glue:







    There, I think that's close enough for an old fishing boat. Now I just need to rough-cut a piece of AYC to fit and fasten it in place. Project for later this weekend.

  31. #2656
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Chris, my two bobs worth ( not worth two bob maybe) but is AYC man enough for this job? A big lump of Oak would be my first choice given the forces that are going to be put through this piece and also given the importance of steering to your overall happiness. A huge force can be transmitted when reversing and the water gets a hold of the rudder.
    Also I’d be bringing this piece of wood down low enough for notching over the keel to oppose the forces transmitted.

    REgards “seat of the pants engineering Inc”

  32. #2657
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Did you buy a bigger boat already?

    I like the new direction with Petrel. Just get things done!
    "Oh my god, Triscuits are, like, the best." L.F Herreshoff, The Compleat Cruiser

  33. #2658
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpatrol View Post
    Chris, my two bobs worth ( not worth two bob maybe) but is AYC man enough for this job? A big lump of Oak would be my first choice given the forces that are going to be put through this piece and also given the importance of steering to your overall happiness. A huge force can be transmitted when reversing and the water gets a hold of the rudder.
    Also I’d be bringing this piece of wood down low enough for notching over the keel to oppose the forces transmitted.

    REgards “seat of the pants engineering Inc”
    Good thought Andrew, and I had been wondering that myself so I did some research. Turns out that compression strength parallel to the grain for white oak is only 14% greater than for AYC (7,370 lbft/sqin vs 6,310 lbft/sqin). The beam is going to be 6" x 2", lagged into the bilge stringers and with a knee anchoring it to the keel. I think that if that's not strong enough for the job then I'm going to have other problems! And AYC is so much easier to work with than oak that I'm happy with the tradeoff.

    Quote Originally Posted by minuteman View Post
    Did you buy a bigger boat already?

    I like the new direction with Petrel. Just get things done!
    Thanks! Getting things done is the goal

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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Good thought Andrew, and I had been wondering that myself so I did some research. Turns out that compression strength parallel to the grain for white oak is only 14% greater than for AYC (7,370 lbft/sqin vs 6,310 lbft/sqin). The beam is going to be 6" x 2", lagged into the bilge stringers and with a knee anchoring it to the keel. I think that if that's not strong enough for the job then I'm going to have other problems! And AYC is so much easier to work with than oak that I'm happy with the tradeoff.



    Thanks! Getting things done is the goal
    I'd fit lodging knees to the ends and not worry about the knee to the keel. The thrust is going to be along the beam, tripping a standing knee to the keel and shearing the lags into the bilge stringer.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  35. #2660
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens;5571517

    Anyhow, it's not much but it's progress. I'm going to go daydream about electric motors now...



    [IMG
    https://www.elcomotoryachts.com/gallery/large/EP4000.jpg[/IMG]
    This might interest you:
    www.thegreenblue.org.uk/-/media/TheGreenBlue/Files-and-Documents/PDF/case-studies/kCase-Study-11-Converting-Engines-to-Solar-Electric-Power-Coniston-Launch-Cumbria.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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