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Thread: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

  1. #2696
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Is ABS strong enough for an emergency tiller? I'd be worried it'd flex/break under the strain.

    Alex

  2. #2697
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitsligo View Post
    Is ABS strong enough for an emergency tiller? I'd be worried it'd flex/break under the strain.

    Alex
    2” is pretty hefty wall thickness and in an emergency get home situation I think that short a length would be fine.

  3. #2698
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    ^^^ That's the plan now. Have a bunch of things going on this weekend but I'm hoping to get time to finish the steering mount at some point. In the meantime I found this...



    Great interview with Bill Garden including some shots of his workshop. It's part of a longer documentary about classic PNW boats called. Throwbacks to a Golden Age of Northwest Boats, available on DVD or pay-per-view. (I have no connection to the seller of course!). I haven't seen the full-length documentary but it's definitely going on my wishlist.
    Chris, as you probably know, Rita is featured in Throwbacks. I watch it every now and then when I feel like being sad about not having her!
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  4. #2699
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    An emergency tiller is definitely in the plans. I was thinking a section of square tubing that will fit over the rudder stock through a hole in the deck as Nick suggests, with a hinged wooden arm for the tiller. But, you know, I kinda need to get the deck done first!

    Lew, I didn't know that Rita was featured in "Throwbacks...". I haven't watched the full length version yet. But I think John S. has a copy so I'll have to borrow it from him.

  5. #2700
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    An emergency tiller sounds like a good idea in theory. Think you really need it? Hydraulic steering is pretty bulletproof. As long as you leave good access to the tiller you can always circle back to the emergency tiller later.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  6. #2701
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    An emergency tiller sounds like a good idea in theory. Think you really need it? Hydraulic steering is pretty bulletproof. As long as you leave good access to the tiller you can always circle back to the emergency tiller later.
    Hydraulic steering still has some possible failures, especially when coupled with an autopilot which adds electronics, another pump, and more possible leaking connections. I like the idea, even if it is just psychological, that I can quickly disconnect the ram and still steer the boat.

  7. #2702
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    I do think an emergency tiller is a good idea but it's not top priority. I see it as one of those weekend projects that gets done after the big jobs are finished. In the meantime, I do have a two-foot long, 1/2" breaker bar and a deep socket that would do an adequate job in a real emergency if it came to that.

  8. #2703
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    Hydraulic steering still has some possible failures, especially when coupled with an autopilot which adds electronics, another pump, and more possible leaking connections. I like the idea, even if it is just psychological, that I can quickly disconnect the ram and still steer the boat.
    Pretty handy to add a bypass valve down near the ram. Means you don't need to diconnect the ram to use the emergency tiller. And it makes bleeding the whole system very easy.

  9. #2704
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Thanks Snow Pea. Good suggestion. I've been focused on mounting the cylinder so I haven't gone into plans for the rest of the hydraulics yet but yes, a bypass valve is on the list. Also bleed fittings for the cylinder, as right now I have to crack the cylinder fittings to bleed it. Which works fine but it's a bit of a hassle to keep the fluid from leaking everywhere.

    Also, while we are talking about it, I have been looking at proper cylinder mounting geometry. Intuitively is seems like the cylinder should be perpendicular to the tiller arm when the rudder is centered but that's not correct. It should be perpendicular to the centerline when the rudder is at the stop (35 degrees or so). Here's an article that goes into detail why. https://www.sbmar.com/articles/marin...eering-systems.

  10. #2705
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Pretty handy to add a bypass valve down near the ram. Means you don't need to diconnect the ram to use the emergency tiller. And it makes bleeding the whole system very easy.
    Now *that's* clever.

    While reading this discussion about emergency tillers I've been thinking to myself, "last thing I want to be doing, if the steering has packed up and things are getting tense, is standing on my head under the deck trying to break loose a hydraulic ram." Sure as eggs is eggs, the fasteners will have corroded, the wrench will slip loose and skitter away into the shaft alley, and as soon as the ram *does* break free, the tiller will hop off the rudderhead and I'll mash my finger trying to get it back into place.

    Much, much better to be able to just drop the emergency tiller into place and open a bypass valve.

    Alex

  11. #2706
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post

    Also, while we are talking about it, I have been looking at proper cylinder mounting geometry. Intuitively is seems like the cylinder should be perpendicular to the tiller arm when the rudder is centered but that's not correct. It should be perpendicular to the centerline when the rudder is at the stop (35 degrees or so). Here's an article that goes into detail why. https://www.sbmar.com/articles/marin...eering-systems.
    Yes, which is why my current ram mounting plank looks like swiss cheese. I kept moving it by trial and error until I have now settled on it being perpendicular when at full stop as you describe. I also like the idea of a bypass valve, as others have mentioned, in an emergency one needs to minimize necessary chores. I still think it is ultimately better to disconnect the ram physically, but that can be a secondary operation after the emergency has been mitigated first.

    And thanks Chris for the link to the steering article. Among other things, it explains the noise I always hear from the autopilot pump when I try to steer too fast with the dial.

  12. #2707
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    If you 'T' the bypass line into the line right where it enters the ram it makes bleeding the system extremely simple. Just fill up the header tank (and keep it full), open the bypass, and circulate the oil by quickly turning the wheel one way until all the air is pumped out of the lines.

    To bleed the ram use the emergency tiller to push the air out into the lines, then with the bypass still open circulate the oil until it's all gone.

    Setup right it takes about 2 minutes and there is no mess at all. With this bypass sytem dedicated bleed fittings aren't needed simplifying things a bit.

  13. #2708
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    ^^^ I like it. Great suggestion. Thanks Snow Pea.

  14. #2709
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Chris, did you use high gloss yacht enamel on your trunk cabin? I have some more priming and filling yet to do, but I bought Interlux high gloss for the finish and not sure my prep work will stand up to it. I might be chickening out. It looks good so far but I know high gloss can really show off the warts.

  15. #2710
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    Chris, did you use high gloss yacht enamel on your trunk cabin? I have some more priming and filling yet to do, but I bought Interlux high gloss for the finish and not sure my prep work will stand up to it. I might be chickening out. It looks good so far but I know high gloss can really show off the warts.
    I have a short answer and a long answer Ron. Short answer is that what is on there now is Rustoleum Marine paint, which is supposedly "gloss" but is nowhere near as glossy as Brightsides. I'd call it semi-gloss. And I'm planning to use Kirby's semi-gloss for the final coats and for all paintwork going forward. But that's because I like the semi-gloss finish and has nothing to do with hiding warts.

    Which brings me to the longer answer. When I was painting Petrel back in 2015 I waffled over that same decision on paint for the hull. I knew the hull was not even remotely fair and I wasn't going to take the time to make it better. So gloss seemed like a bad idea. But then I saw a really pretty little double ended sailboat in the yard that was being prepped for the Port Townsend show. It wasn't anything pretentious but it was nicely done. And the hull was brilliantly glossy. Not perfect by any means. You could see the seams and a few brush strokes but boy was it shiny. She looked fantastic. I asked the owner what he used and it was Brightsides.

    For a number of reasons I ended up using gloss Rustoleum instead of marine paint. But the lesson for me from looking at that sailboat was that all the talk of gloss "showing the imperfections" is all well and good if you are going for a high quality yacht finish, but that it can look just as good on an imperfect surface. Wooden boats - in particular wooden workboats - are imperfect by their very nature. No point in trying to hide that fact. If you like the look of a gloss finish then I say go ahead and paint Snoose as high-gloss as you want. She will look great even if the cabin sides are not perfectly fair and even after the seams start to open up a little.

  16. #2711
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    Be thankful for Hydraulics Chris, some guy on Facebook is struggling with a dual station cable set up on his flybridge... "Cables don't stay on the drums" lol.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  17. #2712
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Be thankful for Hydraulics Chris, some guy on Facebook is struggling with a dual station cable set up on his flybridge... "Cables don't stay on the drums" lol.
    Huh. Haven't seen that post yet. I'm sure he will get lots of advice though! I'm pretty happy with hydraulics. Simple and reliable.

  18. #2713
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    Oh my bad it's on a trawler group not the wbf
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  19. #2714
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Well, I had every intention of making progress on Petrel this past week but life had other plans. I had a birthday on Thursday for one thing. Fiftieth in fact. So there's that. And my Dad surprised me with a visit from Maine for the occasion. So I spent the week engaged in family activities and various celebrations rather than buried in the bilge. Which was all to the good for quality-of-life but something of a barrier to progress.

    Then yesterday I tackled the long overdue project of getting Lucky Truck moved into the shop for some maintenance, starting with a good wash. Or rather Dash washed the truck while the rest of us stood around and took photos:



    However with a free day today at last, I went down to Petrel this morning and stared at my steering mount for a while, thinking I should really get on with it. But despite my best efforts I was entirely unable to summon my boat-working mojo. It's around somewhere I know, but it is not available just at present. So instead I went for a paddle around Salmon Bay, looking at boats.



    Nothing bad about that.

  20. #2715
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Sounds like a good birthday, Chris. My fiftieth was one of the best. Sweetness and our best friend took me to dinner, then when we got home I found a bunch of friends had come to celebrate. She had 50 helium filled balloons throughout the house. Fun and happiness.

    I think Dash was practicing for his teenage years. Watch out.

    Best,
    Jeff

  21. #2716
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Sounds like a good day to me. We got several severe hailstorms, down here in Oly, so it wasn't like I was outside doing anything.

    Besides, you got to see one of my favorites:

    Now I'm jealous.

    Alex

  22. #2717
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Ultimately using boats is much more fun than fixing them. I'd give in to that every time it was an option.

  23. #2718
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    Sounds like a good birthday, Chris. My fiftieth was one of the best. Sweetness and our best friend took me to dinner, then when we got home I found a bunch of friends had come to celebrate. She had 50 helium filled balloons throughout the house. Fun and happiness.

    I think Dash was practicing for his teenage years. Watch out.

    Best,
    Jeff

    I was talking with another friend recently, who is just a bit older than I, and we agreed that fifty was a good one. Surrounded by family and with perspective on both the past and the future. Seems like a good place to be right now. As for Dash... yeah, I can already see exactly what he is going to be like at sixteen. It's a bit terrifying. I have a hard time keeping up with him now!


    Quote Originally Posted by Pitsligo View Post
    Sounds like a good day to me. We got several severe hailstorms, down here in Oly, so it wasn't like I was outside doing anything.

    Besides, you got to see one of my favorites:

    Now I'm jealous.

    Alex
    There are so many great boats out here. Fantails like Gyrfalcon, Olympus and Deer Leap, schooners like Red Jacket, Zodiac and Adventuress, working (or ex-working) boats like Emancipator and Commencement. Put all of them together and Argonaut II would still stand out. She's spectacular. But looking a bit past due for a coat of paint, to be honest. I hope the new owners are up to the task of caring for her.

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Ultimately using boats is much more fun than fixing them. I'd give in to that every time it was an option.
    Yes. Exactly.

  24. #2719
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Sorry Chris, I'm still trying to catch up with all that happened here (page 67 now ...) when birthday came up. Birthday? Happy belated birthday-wishes to you and a lot of great stuff for the next 50 or more!!!
    fair winds, Dody

    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...h-Tonga/page12

  25. #2720
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Thanks Dody

  26. #2721
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    Happy Birthday Chris! I seem to be paying less attention online these days maybe it's because I have a new old truck . Lol
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  27. #2722
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Happy Birthday Chris! I seem to be paying less attention online these days maybe it's because I have a new old truck . Lol
    Thanks Denise I didn't make much of a point of the birthday, other than to mark the passing of time during which no boat progress is being made. I saw your updates on the truck though. Truck = good. Is it drivable yet?

  28. #2723
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Yes, it's my daily driver now. But I have it in the back yard waiting on the new parts for the AC. Being in HVAC all my life and having a non-functional AC system in my truck is a personal embarrassment LOL Gotta! fix that! Another embarrassment was finding the right side O2 sensor harness between the block and bell housing. so I had to take it to a shop I've been using for years. Now I'm no longer getting the CEL.

    I sold the Long Bed Ranger, Hope it doesn't haunt me. got a text 2 days after he bought it;

    "won't start and died when I got it started, you know anything about this???"


    I was like duh???
    Pic of the evaporator, you can see the oil from the refrigerant leaks
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 06-13-2018 at 12:41 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  29. #2724
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Yes, it's my daily driver now. But I have it in the back yard waiting on the new parts for the AC. Being in HVAC all my life and having a non-functional AC system in my truck is a personal embarrassment LOL Gotta! fix that! Another embarrassment was finding the right side O2 sensor harness between the block and bell housing. so I had to take it to a shop I've been using for years. Now I'm no longer getting the CEL.

    I sold the Long Bed Ranger, Hope it doesn't haunt me. got a text 2 days after he bought it;

    "won't start and died when I got it started, you know anything about this???"


    I was like duh???
    Ugh - I hate it when something like that happens right after it's sold. I have a story about that. I sold the engines out of Perihelion once it became clear that I wasn't going to be putting her back in the water any time soon. Two completely remanufactured 671s with less than 20 hours on them. Worked out a fair price with the buyer for nearly new motors and walked away thinking that we both got a pretty good deal. But when he was installing them he had to partially strip them to fit through the salon doorway and he found that they were *full* of rust. Best theory I have is that the new exhaust elbows I had fabricated put the raw water inlet too far up, and water was draining back into the engines when they shut down. Anyway he ended up having them rebuilt again and I refunded most of the purchase price to cover the work. Not much good happened with that boat except that she played a significant role in bringing my wife, Victoria, and me together. Which pretty much makes up for all the rest of it. A more than fair trade I think!

  30. #2725

    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Age and trucks. I spent last week doing the rear brakes on my '08 1ton. Parking brakes with discs was a challenge .I even had to make a tool, a spring expander. I've being doing brakes on my vehicles for 50 years now, and this was new. See I got 50 years mentioned. Happy birthday, Chris.

    Ray

  31. #2726
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Chris, do we know who this is? Not sure I've seen her before, just spotted her in the marina from the house so can't see the name.

    greenboat].jpg

  32. #2727
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Huh - no, I haven't seen her before either. Neat looking little boat though. I like the colors!

  33. #2728
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    you guys are so spoiled living in a traditional boat and boat building restoration part of the states. What's the tidal range there Chris? looking at the poles.. around 8ft?
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  34. #2729
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Tidal change today is almost 16’ Denise. We’re at a minus 3.51’ as we speak.

  35. #2730
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    The boat is “Proclaimer” built in 1943. I’m envious of her back deck.

    475AB241-5467-421A-9169-A465A77AD747.jpg

    9A59F261-DEBC-4059-96B7-5A5CC2A7A9DE.jpg

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