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Thread: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

  1. #2171
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Ok, thanks everyone. I’m not sure if I will end up using staples but the info helps for sure. Now another question: What about beveling the frame? In the “Tips...” video they cut the bevel into the outermost lamination but the frame they were replacing was a lot larger than the ones in Petrel. Not sure if that makes a difference but I’m trying to figure out if I need to cut the bevels or if laminating in place would handle it automatically by offsetting the stack a bit to compensate. What is standard practice here?
    - Chris

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  2. #2172
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Ok, thanks everyone. I’m not sure if I will end up using staples but the info helps for sure. Now another question: What about beveling the frame? In the “Tips...” video they cut the bevel into the outermost lamination but the frame they were replacing was a lot larger than the ones in Petrel. Not sure if that makes a difference but I’m trying to figure out if I need to cut the bevels or if laminating in place would handle it automatically by offsetting the stack a bit to compensate. What is standard practice here?
    I think that you will need to bevel. The lams will not lie straight and close alongside the timber that you are sistering as that would require one edge to be longer than the other. Put it in flat and it will turn into a cant frame.

    Cut a strip of corrugated cardboard or door skin ply and try it to place for a test.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  3. #2173
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    ^^^ Makes sense. Thanks Nick. I happen to have some door skin cut to the right size already for templating so I can test it when I get back to Seattle. But I expect you are correct. Ok.
    - Chris

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  4. #2174
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Cotton flox will add flex to a structural epoxy making it more resilient. A good bonding mix after priming surfaces with neat epoxy is to add flox until peanut butter consistency then silica until the mixture stops running. Heating the members and primer coat thins the epoxy and helps it be drawn into the wood as it cools.

  5. #2175
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    I saw this Freeman hatch on C.L. Might want to take a look!

    https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/b...404710642.html

    Wgmkr

  6. #2176
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by dinoa View Post
    Cotton flox will add flex to a structural epoxy making it more resilient. A good bonding mix after priming surfaces with neat epoxy is to add flox until peanut butter consistency then silica until the mixture stops running. Heating the members and primer coat thins the epoxy and helps it be drawn into the wood as it cools.
    Thanks dinoa. I’m thinking I will try G/Flex out of curiosity if nothing else but that’s useful info.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagemaker View Post
    I saw this Freeman hatch on C.L. Might want to take a look!

    https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/b...404710642.html

    Wgmkr
    Nice find! Although given the need to also buy a deck ring it’s not that great a deal. At least not so much that I’m compelled to travel to Anacortes to buy it now instead of waiting until I’m actually building the deck. I should probably spend the money on lumber instead...
    - Chris

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  7. #2177
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Thanks dinoa. I’m thinking I will try G/Flex out of curiosity if nothing else but that’s useful info.



    Nice find! Although given the need to also buy a deck ring it’s not that great a deal. At least not so much that I’m compelled to travel to Anacortes to buy it now instead of waiting until I’m actually building the deck. I should probably spend the money on lumber instead...
    Oh I don't know I'm sure everybody hates them but the plastic slam hatches seem to be pretty common. they get mold and mildew on the bottom side as well as condensation

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  8. #2178
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagemaker View Post
    I saw this Freeman hatch on C.L. Might want to take a look!

    https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/b...404710642.html

    Wgmkr
    i found one a few months ago for $30. I had thought about using on the aft deck over the rudder post, but will probably use inside over the stuffing box.

  9. #2179
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Psuggmog, between the $30 Freeman hatch, the searchlight and the vintage navigation lights you found I'm beginning to have a bit of hardware envy! I like the idea of using the hatch over the stuffing box. For Petrel I'm thinking of a Freeman hatch over the steering gear aft and a larger wooden hatch (or two) forward for access under the cockpit deck.
    - Chris

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  10. #2180
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    My new (old) brace and screwdriver bits arrived while I was on the East Coast and were waiting for me when I got back last night. They are entirely as nice as they seemed to be so I am quite pleased:



    So this afternoon I headed down to Petrel to make another attempt at removing the screws fastening bulwark cap and ... success!



    The brace made the job even easier than I had hoped. Always use the right tool for the job I tell myself. It makes everything so much easier. But it's always tempting to use the somewhat-passable tool I have in the tool bag instead of the ideal tool that I don't. Yet it almost never works out so I don't know why I bother. Anyway, that part of the problem is solved. But I still have another challenge:



    The cap is glued to the top of the sheer plank with something like 5200. It's not *quite* that tenacious as I was able to pull it up in a few places, but in other spots it takes the top of the plank with it if the cap is levered up injudiciously, as I did here:



    Argh. I'm hoping that with more care I can prise up the rest of the cap without damaging the plank edge but I may be forced to pull off the rub rail and cut between the plank and the cap if not. Project for another day in any case.
    - Chris

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  11. #2181
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Sometimes the right tool makes all the difference. Too bad about everything being glued together. Can you slip an oscillating tool in there to cut the joint?
    -Jim

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    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
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  12. #2182
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    Sometimes the right tool makes all the difference. Too bad about everything being glued together. Can you slip an oscillating tool in there to cut the joint?
    If I had an oscillating tool, sure. Am I going tool shopping again? (Although given the charred and smoking remains of my boat budget after the bandsaw splurge I doubt that the cordless Fein MultiMaster of my fantasies is in the cards. I may need to hunt for a friend with one, or some equivalent, that I can borrow for now).
    - Chris

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  13. #2183
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    A hundred bucks at Home Depot gets you one of these.



    And you can buy different tool heads for it that are very useful on the boat. One of the most used tools I have.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  14. #2184
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    ^^^ Yes, that might be more the thing right now. Ok!
    - Chris

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    Life is short. Go boating now!

  15. #2185
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    ^^^ Yes, that might be more the thing right now. Ok!
    I got a cheapie, an Ozito. But it wasn't anywhere as good as my old mans Makita. Eventually I broke down and bought a nice Bosch professional one that was on sale. It is amazing how much faster it cuts than the same wattage Ozito tool. A very handy device.

    Edit to add, this doesn't mean the cheaper one isn't the way to go. Mine worked well enough. It just was not as nice to use as the more expensive model. And I found myself using the tool enough to justify a better one.
    Last edited by Snow Pea; 12-06-2017 at 03:59 AM.

  16. #2186
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"


  17. #2187
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Thanks Snow Pea and dinoa. While the Fein is out of reach, after everyone's posts about less expensive options I had the thought to check whether DeWalt makes one. Of course they do.



    And since I already have the charger and batteries I can buy just the basic tool for under $150.00. Still not cheap exactly but doable. And even better, I don't need to deal with another battery and charger system.
    - Chris

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  18. #2188
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Thanks Snow Pea and dinoa. While the Fein is out of reach, after everyone's posts about less expensive options I had the thought to check whether DeWalt makes one. Of course they do.



    And since I already have the charger and batteries I can buy just the basic tool for under $150.00. Still not cheap exactly but doable. And even better, I don't need to deal with another battery and charger system.
    Chris if the cap rail is flat, maybe a piece of a bandsaw blade or a long timber frame saw blade slide under the board back and forth? I have one of those Harbor Freight multi tools it's okay, it's just loud really really loud.

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  19. #2189
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Chris if the cap rail is flat, maybe a piece of a bandsaw blade or a long timber frame saw blade slide under the board back and forth? I have one of those Harbor Freight multi tools it's okay, it's just loud really really loud.

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    That could work Denise, but I suspect that the oscillating tool would save me a couple of hours of work there at least. However I still have a bunch of screws to remove before I have to do anything about the glue joint. I only pulled up one five-foot section yesterday to see how the brace would work. So there is no huge rush one way or the other.
    - Chris

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  20. #2190
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    maybe some heat would help soften the adhesive enough to pull apart the joint cleanly or at least without tearing apart the wood

  21. #2191
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by coelcanth View Post
    maybe some heat would help soften the adhesive enough to pull apart the joint cleanly or at least without tearing apart the wood
    That's a good thought. The challenge is to get heat into that joint. It's buried under an inch of purpleheart and behind the inwale so it's not readily accessible from the top or the bottom. I really think that pulling the rub strip (which covers the outboard side of joint) and using a thin blade or oscillating tool is the right idea here.
    - Chris

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  22. #2192
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    That's a good thought. The challenge is to get heat into that joint. It's buried under an inch of purpleheart and behind the inwale so it's not readily accessible from the top or the bottom. I really think that pulling the rub strip (which covers the outboard side of joint) and using a thin blade or oscillating tool is the right idea here.
    Pull the rub strip for access, then see if a heated thin blade will cut the adhesive.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  23. #2193
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    ^^^^ yes... that could work. Ok, I have options. Thanks!
    - Chris

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  24. #2194
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    I bought one of those fein vibrating tools with a variety of attachments for $80 from my neighbors son. It had been used three times at the most...I didn’t realize they were so expensive! As others have said above...it works great in applications like the one you describe.

  25. #2195

    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Last year I rebuilt a camper for hunting. Rot is not confined to boats you know. An oscillating tool is a must have. Another must have tool is a Japanese Azebiki saw. I fell in love with them after watching a shipwright repair the damage my cousin did in a clumsy docking.
    Last edited by Downwindtracker2; 12-06-2017 at 06:10 PM. Reason: spelling again

  26. #2196
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Thanks Ray. I had to Google "Azebiki Saw" as I'd never heard of one. Yes, that definitely looks handy! Going on my Christmas list now...
    - Chris

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  27. #2197
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Still battling with the bulwark cap. More challenges but nothing very interesting. A bunch of screws won't yield, even to the brace. I'm about to give up on saving it and just cut it off in pieces. That's my plan for this weekend at least. In the meantime to take my mind off my troubles I'm looking at photos of boats I like. Boats that are done. Boats that don't need twenty sistered frames a new aft deck and a pilothouse rebuild, not to mention interior cabinetry, batteries, plumbing, electrical wiring, a new exhaust, more seams caulked... anyway, I found this one on the Seattle craigslist:





    She's the "Katie L". I posted a photo I took of her out of the water a few weeks back. She's back in the water and for sale now. According to the ad she was originally a Columbia River gillnetter that was converted into a picnic launch. Some of her details are a little awkward but still a neat little boat.

    And on that theme I drew up an open picnic launch version of Petrel:




    Not a cruising boat but it could be fun.
    - Chris

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  28. #2198
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    If it makes you feel any better, Neoga got over 90 sisters along with 70+ frame sections replaced...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  29. #2199
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    You may have mentioned before, but what program are you using for your drawings?

    Very nice!

    WgMkr

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    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Still battling with the bulwark cap. More challenges but nothing very interesting. A bunch of screws won't yield, even to the brace. I'm about to give up on saving it and just cut it off in pieces. That's my plan for this weekend at least. In the meantime to take my mind off my troubles I'm looking at photos of boats I like. Boats that are done. Boats that don't need twenty sistered frames a new aft deck and a pilothouse rebuild, not to mention interior cabinetry, batteries, plumbing, electrical wiring, a new exhaust, more seams caulked... anyway, I found this one on the Seattle craigslist:





    She's the "Katie L". I posted a photo I took of her out of the water a few weeks back. She's back in the water and for sale now. According to the ad she was originally a Columbia River gillnetter that was converted into a picnic launch. Some of her details are a little awkward but still a neat little boat.

    And on that theme I drew up an open picnic launch version of Petrel:




    Not a cruising boat but it could be fun.
    Uh ohh Chris... At least you know what you have with Petrel. Seeing all that black at the bottom of all those vertical planks on Katie, gives me pause...

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  31. #2201
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    If it makes you feel any better, Neoga got over 90 sisters along with 70+ frame sections replaced...
    Thanks Garret. It's good to be reminded that people have taken on and completed far larger projects than Petrel. I know it will all get done eventually, I'm just feeling sorry for myself because I've hit a snag. But that's inevitable in any tough project. Both the hit-a-snag part and the feeling-sorry-for-myself part that is. It doesn't help that I was traveling last weekend so wasn't able to make much progress. But so it goes.

    And when I can't actually be working on Petrel I feed my habit by daydreaming about boats. I have a particular soft spot for small launches and open displacement-hull motor boats. They fit with a romantic vision I have of cruising simply. Just a place to sleep, room to sit and enjoy the water and perhaps a small wood stove for comfort. Not very practical or comfortable in reality I suppose, but for me that seems like the perfect antidote to the complexities of everyday life.

    Here's another one I like...



    (TUG, a William Hand design built by D. N. Hylan).

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagemaker View Post
    You may have mentioned before, but what program are you using for your drawings?

    Very nice!

    WgMkr
    Thanks Wagemaker. I'm using Adobe Illustrator. Which is a graphic drawing application not a CAD program but it's what I'm familiar with.
    - Chris

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    Life is short. Go boating now!

  32. #2202
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Uh ohh Chris... At least you know what you have with Petrel. Seeing all that black at the bottom of all those vertical planks on Katie, gives me pause...

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Oh, I'm not thinking about buying Katie L. Denise She's just a boat I saw and liked.
    - Chris

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    Life is short. Go boating now!

  33. #2203
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    A bit of progress today. Continued chipping away at the bulwark cap. I've given up trying to keep any of it at this point. It might be possible to salvage parts of it, but there are significant sections that are too far gone anyway. So in the end I just gave in and started cutting it off in sections:







    One advantage of doing it this was is that with some care I was able to get the cap pieces loose from the sheer plank with only minimal damage (one spot that was already a bit soft came up, but I would have had to make repairs there anyway).

    Then with the starboard cap removed I was able to remove the beam shelf and the remains of the side deck from that side as well.



    Not so bad as the port side but there is some work to be done here for sure.

    I still have a bit of demo work to do before I can start rebuilding but I can see the end from here. Just a bit of the old cockpit left to cut out and the last of the original deck beams. And the inwale, which is also rotten in spots. But I'll save that for last as I want to keep it in place as long as possible to help maintain the shape of the hull.
    - Chris

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    Life is short. Go boating now!

  34. #2204
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    You're a glutton for punishment: Down here it was bloody cold, for outside work!

    Alex

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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitsligo View Post
    You're a glutton for punishment: Down here it was bloody cold, for outside work!

    Alex
    Wasn't too bad Alex, especially once I got going. Cold, yes. But also sunny with no wind and a bit of mist off the water in the morning... I was actually thinking it was just about perfect weather for working on the boat.
    - Chris

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    Life is short. Go boating now!

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