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Thread: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

  1. #2836
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    i can see it now. stop by the boat at lunch, take some measurements and after work at home saw up the pieces you need. the next day after work instal what you can and make some more measurements and then go home and cut them up. then repeat. little bites of the elephant. fixing the engine problems sounds easy especially since you know your way around a wrench and i would think that would be a priority. just thinking out loud. good luck.

    jim

  2. #2837
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by MADOC1 View Post
    i can see it now. stop by the boat at lunch, take some measurements and after work at home saw up the pieces you need. the next day after work instal what you can and make some more measurements and then go home and cut them up. then repeat. little bites of the elephant. fixing the engine problems sounds easy especially since you know your way around a wrench and i would think that would be a priority. just thinking out loud. good luck.

    jim
    That's pretty much the plan right there. The engine and steering do need to be dealt with sooner than later but I want to make some progress on the frames as well. I've been a little stalled there. First the weather was unseasonably cold back in February. Then I got buried in work. Then the sun was in my eyes... just a list of excuses really. Time to get back to it. I do need a bit of a plan there though. I probably should just haul out and do it all in a yard but doing it that way I would need to be able to take a week or two off of work to focus on it and I won't be able to do that until this fall at the soonest. So instead I'm thinking I might be able to do a lot of the fastening in the water if I can get access to a floating dock. Which I think I can do. But there are some other complications I need to manage. Anyway, my task for today is to finish up the step/platform and plan my attack on the frame project. More on that this evening.

  3. #2838
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    Chris, it is kind of multitasking what you're doing. Works great as long as everything goes smooth. But pretty irritating when not, and then suddenly everything takes ages. Keep up the good spirits and don't put yourself under pressure! You're doing a great job to your lovely lady, and I think we all highly appreciate it!

    Term? How about "semipermanent"?

    But there is also something else: I would like to thank you and the contributors to your thread about sharing all these details, especially the practical side. For example about using the tablesaw and cutting strips to laminate something. It is just awesome! I don't have a tablesaw myself but had a plank cut down to lams by a carpenter in one of the next villages on Monday. What I've learned from your own learning-curve has helped me tremendously to work it all out, I knew the answers to all the questions before they could be asked, and it was great for both parties involved to know from the beginning what we're talking about. Thanks again, and keep up the good work 👍😃!

    Sent from my SM-G900FD using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Dody; 07-11-2018 at 07:16 PM.
    fair winds, Dody

    "They did not know it was impossible so they did it" - Mark Twain

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...h-Tonga/page12

  4. #2839
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    I'm not sure if it's multitasking or just plain inability to focus Dody. But either way I need to start finishing a few projects! And I'm happy that the info here is useful to someone. I think of this thread mostly as a example of how to muddle along with little skill and great advice. I've definitely learned an enormous amount since I started it. Just enough to know that I don't know much...

    As for the step/platform/thingy - I'm calling it temporary but "makeshift" might be better. Definitely not any shade of "permanent" - semi or otherwise. But whatever we call it, it's done:



    I might add a little more bracing but it's pretty sturdy as it sits. On to the frames next. My plan right now is to sister all the frames from the pilothouse aft to the rudder post:



    The port side might get a little complicated because of all the sisters and short frames though:



    So I'll have to work around that. Aft of the rudder post the angle needed to get the frame to lie against the planking is enough that I will need to cut a bevel in the bottom lamination. So those will be more work. But I can tackle them as a separate project because the beam shelf doesn't need to extend that far aft. And the beam shelf will run about 6" above the bilge stringer which puts it above the waterline. So once I get the sisters in place I should be able to fasten them above the waterline from a float and then install the new beam shelf the same way. I can finish fastening the sisters below the waterline at the next haulout.
    Last edited by cstevens; 07-11-2018 at 08:44 PM.

  5. #2840
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Tad Roberts posted a few photos of Barnacle to Facebook this morning that I have to share here. Designed by Wm. Atkin and built locally in Seattle by Blanchard. One of my all time favorite boats:







    That's pretty much my vision for how Petrel should look right there. I'd better get working on it...

    Then I stopped by the Ballard Locks this morning on my bicycle ride to work just in time to see this lovely gal pass through:





    Wahoma by Ed Monk, built 1939

    Not a bad way to start the day!

  6. #2841
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    Well Chris you certainly can get Petrel to look at least if not better than those beauties! You've already demonstrated that you have the ability!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  7. #2842
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Thanks Denise. I love your confidence

  8. #2843
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    You're doing better than most do it yourself boat restoration people, and you're trying to do it right, you've got the tools!
    Are you going to sister every frame, or every other frame Chris? I'm still having trouble believing she needs that much.
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 07-12-2018 at 01:46 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  9. #2844
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Thanks Denise. Re: sistering, I'm going to do every frame aft of the pilothouse. Might not be strictly necessary but the old frames are such a mess. Some of them are still good. Some are iron sick to the point of falling apart if you touch them. There is rot in the frame heads on the port side and a ton of short sisters there, and at least one sister on the starboard side that is also rotten. Plus all of the old iron nails are still in place so they will just keep deteriorating. So I think the best plan is to sister everything and then cut out the worst of the rotten and iron sick frames and scarf in new sections there as well. A much bigger project than I had planned but better to build on a solid foundation.

  10. #2845
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Lunch project for today:



    Picked up the parts to fix the oil leak and convert the oil filter to spin-on from Covich Williams, our handy local supplier of fuel and lubricants to the maritime and fishing industry. Conveniently located a few blocks away from my office.

  11. #2846
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Chris,
    You can remove many of those short sisters to give yourself the room you need. Set a circular saw to the frame thickness and saw across the frames making 3 or 4 inch long sections. Then split the chunks down the center (or on the screws if you can). Then cut the screws flush with the planks.

  12. #2847
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Chris,
    You can remove many of those short sisters to give yourself the room you need. Set a circular saw to the frame thickness and saw across the frames making 3 or 4 inch long sections. Then split the chunks down the center (or on the screws if you can). Then cut the screws flush with the planks.
    Ha! Thanks navydog. I was just thinking about that exact process last night and wondering if it would work so I could clear out the extra sisters in the water. Great to have an expert weigh in on it. That's the plan then.

  13. #2848
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Just make sure they are short enough to split easily so as to not pressure the fasteners or planks. If you are going to take frames out below the water line, have some softwood tapers on hand to use as plugs in case a screw hole leaks. I wouldn't take many whole frames out without being able to fasten them in. Maybe remove one leave two in.
    Last edited by navydog; 07-13-2018 at 02:25 PM.

  14. #2849
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Just make sure they are short enough to split easily so as to not pressure the fasteners or planks.
    Got it. Will do.

  15. #2850
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    As you probably know Chris, Barnacle is my slip neighbor. So if you ever want to feast your eyes for a while, stop by. Although she usually leaves for most of the summer, but she’s still there now.

  16. #2851
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    As you probably know Chris, Barnacle is my slip neighbor. So if you ever want to feast your eyes for a while, stop by. Although she usually leaves for most of the summer, but she’s still there now.
    I might take you up on that Ron. But even better if I could get an intro to the owner and go aboard. I might drop them a note. I see she also has her own website:http://www.barnacle1932.com/

    Lovely boat. About the only flaw I see is that she has even less outdoor space than Snoose!

    More progress on Petrel today. First I cleared the decks and gathered supplies for another bout with the frame sistering project:



    Then I wedged myself into the crawl space next to the engine to deal with the oil leak. This is the culprit:



    You'd think that with the amount of oil that leaks out of a DD engine they would never rust but this one has managed to. Everywhere. And despite my careful attempts to clean up the sealing surfaces on the filter housing it's still being very uncivilized. Time it was retired and replaced with a spin-on filter.

    First step. The adapter went in easily enough:



    And then the filter... Argh. It just doesn't quite clear the fuel line from the pump to the primary fuel filter.



    No amount of fiddling would make it fit. So... I pulled the fuel line off. Problem solved, sort of. The filter fit and I was able to get the fuel line back on with little difficulty but that's not a good plan long-term and that fuel line really needs to be replaced. So that's the next engine project then - replace and reroute that fuel line.

    For now it's all buttoned up at least. But I just ran out of time and had to head home for dinner before I could test it.

  17. #2852
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Just a thought Chris -

    While a big oil filter is good, I bet there is a shorter one available that'll fir the housing. The B95 has these dimensions:

    Thread: 1 1/2-12
    O.D.: 4 21/32 (118.3)
    Length: 9 15/16 (252.4)

    I bet there's one that'll match the first 2 & be maybe 6" long - missing the fuel line.

    Aha - found it. the B105 is identical except 6-9/32" long.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  18. #2853
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Unfortunately that already *is* the B105 though. It was obvious that the B95 was never going to work so I exchanged it before I started the project. No - that’s the correct filter alright. It’s just a tight squeeze.

  19. #2854
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    "Aft of the rudder post the angle needed to get the frame to lie against the planking is enough that I will need to cut a bevel in the bottom lamination. So those will be more work."

    Chris,
    Not to beat a dead horse, but..... I think you will find beveling is going to be a lot more work than the benefit of the results. I say this because the bevel changes the lenght of the frame and to make it workout correctly you will need to fit the frame the entire lenght. It is much easier to measure to edge bend required of a flat piece, then saw the sweep from a wider board. When the llaminates are pushed into place they will align. It does use more lumber and requires wides stock, but the results will be better and less time consuming.

  20. #2855
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    I might take you up on that Ron. But even better if I could get an intro to the owner and go aboard. I might drop them a note. I see she also has her own website:http://www.barnacle1932.com/

    Lovely boat. About the only flaw I see is that she has even less outdoor space than Snoose!

    More progress on Petrel today. First I cleared the decks and gathered supplies for another bout with the frame sistering project:



    Then I wedged myself into the crawl space next to the engine to deal with the oil leak. This is the culprit:



    You'd think that with the amount of oil that leaks out of a DD engine they would never rust but this one has managed to. Everywhere. And despite my careful attempts to clean up the sealing surfaces on the filter housing it's still being very uncivilized. Time it was retired and replaced with a spin-on filter.

    First step. The adapter went in easily enough:



    And then the filter... Argh. It just doesn't quite clear the fuel line from the pump to the primary fuel filter.



    No amount of fiddling would make it fit. So... I pulled the fuel line off. Problem solved, sort of. The filter fit and I was able to get the fuel line back on with little difficulty but that's not a good plan long-term and that fuel line really needs to be replaced. So that's the next engine project then - replace and reroute that fuel line.

    For now it's all buttoned up at least. But I just ran out of time and had to head home for dinner before I could test it.
    Just fire up that old DD Chris! so funny, even an oil filter is up for debate lol.
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 07-14-2018 at 08:05 AM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  21. #2856
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    "Aft of the rudder post the angle needed to get the frame to lie against the planking is enough that I will need to cut a bevel in the bottom lamination. So those will be more work."

    Chris,
    Not to beat a dead horse, but..... I think you will find beveling is going to be a lot more work than the benefit of the results. I say this because the bevel changes the lenght of the frame and to make it workout correctly you will need to fit the frame the entire lenght. It is much easier to measure to edge bend required of a flat piece, then saw the sweep from a wider board. When the llaminates are pushed into place they will align. It does use more lumber and requires wides stock, but the results will be better and less time consuming.

    Thanks navydog I think you mentioned something like this a while back and I missed the implication entirely because I was stuck on the "Tips from a Shipwright" video where they beveled one of the laminations to lay flat against the hull. But of course I could get the same effect by spiling the laminations to follow the curve of the existing frame, yes? Makes sense now. So, I'm thinking:

    1. First, make the laminations wider than the frame width to account for the curve. There will be some waste, especially for the aftermost frames that will have a significant bend, but those frames are relatively short so that's not a huge issue.

    2. Lay a straight batten so that it lies flat on the hull and meets the existing frame at the top and bottom. The middle part will curve away from the frame due to the hull shape.

    3. Mark the curve on the batten using a joggle stick.

    4. Temporarily glue up a lamination stack just at the ends to hold it together.

    5. Transfer the curve from the pattern to the lam stack.

    6. Cut the stack to the curve using the bandsaw I bought last year and have never even started up (better get going on putting it in service).

    7. Cut off the ends of the stack to free up the laminations.

    8. Laminate the frame in place, enjoying how nicely it all lines up.

    Does that seem reasonable? Any suggestions?


    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Just fire up that old DD Chris! so funny, even an oil filter is up for debate lol.
    That's the plan Denise! I need to put oil in it to replace the stuff that's all over the bilge first though. But there's no debate on the oil filter. Garret was correct - the B105 is the right one. If the elbow in the fuel line leading to the pump was rotated just a few degrees more vertical it would all fit just fine. A project for later.

  22. #2857
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Thanks navydog I think you mentioned something like this a while back and I missed the implication entirely because I was stuck on the "Tips from a Shipwright" video where they beveled one of the laminations to lay flat against the hull. But of course I could get the same effect by spiling the laminations to follow the curve of the existing frame, yes? Makes sense now. So, I'm thinking:

    1. First, make the laminations wider than the frame width to account for the curve. There will be some waste, especially for the aftermost frames that will have a significant bend, but those frames are relatively short so that's not a huge issue.

    2. Lay a straight batten so that it lies flat on the hull and meets the existing frame at the top and bottom. The middle part will curve away from the frame due to the hull shape.

    3. Mark the curve on the batten using a joggle stick.

    4. Temporarily glue up a lamination stack just at the ends to hold it together.

    5. Transfer the curve from the pattern to the lam stack.

    6. Cut the stack to the curve using the bandsaw I bought last year and have never even started up (better get going on putting it in service).

    7. Cut off the ends of the stack to free up the laminations.

    8. Laminate the frame in place, enjoying how nicely it all lines up.

    Does that seem reasonable? Any suggestions?




    That's the plan Denise! I need to put oil in it to replace the stuff that's all over the bilge first though. But there's no debate on the oil filter. Garret was correct - the B105 is the right one. If the elbow in the fuel line leading to the pump was rotated just a few degrees more vertical it would all fit just fine. A project for later.
    Which DD model is your engine Chris?
    People seem to love em in any size, condition, they are found in trucks, Sawmills, tractors, generators everywhere!
    Here you go, little history tour
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 07-14-2018 at 10:21 AM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  23. #2858
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Unfortunately that already *is* the B105 though. It was obvious that the B95 was never going to work so I exchanged it before I started the project. No - that’s the correct filter alright. It’s just a tight squeeze.
    Rats. I saw the tall B95 in the first pic, so I thought that was the one you were using. New fuel line time I guess!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  24. #2859
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    NeBar in Ballard (across from Salmon Bay Cafe) can make up great custom fuel lines. But you already knew that.

  25. #2860
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Use the pattern to determine the width needed. I would probably cut the frame as a solid then slice the laminations out. It doesn't matter how so much as long as it works for you.

  26. #2861
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post



    2. Lay a straight batten so that it lies flat on the hull and meets the existing frame at the top and bottom. The middle part will curve away from the frame due to the hull shape.

    3. Mark the curve on the batten using a joggle stick.

    4. Temporarily glue up a lamination stack just at the ends to hold it together.

    5. Transfer the curve from the pattern to the lam stack.

    6. Cut the stack to the curve using the bandsaw I bought last year and have never even started up (better get going on putting it in service).

    7. Cut off the ends of the stack to free up the laminations.

    8. Laminate the frame in place, enjoying how nicely it all lines up.

    Does that seem reasonable? Any suggestions?
    I think you want to lay the batten inline next to the frame in the bilge. Make sure it takes the twist at the turn and does lie flat on the planks. The top should flare away, forward. The final form will look like a dog leg.

  27. #2862
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Barnacle’s owners live out of state so aren’t around much unless they are preparing for a cruise. Every summer they take her to their beach house near the end of Hood Canal and stay there. All maintenance is done by Seaview, as she was long owned by Phil, the owner of the Seaview yards, they know her pretty well. She has her full cover off right now and it’s easy to see in the windows, but not much chance of catching the owner.

  28. #2863
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Rats. I saw the tall B95 in the first pic, so I thought that was the one you were using. New fuel line time I guess!
    Yeah, that would have been handy if I could just get a shorter filter. No chance. New fuel line it is!

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    NeBar in Ballard (across from Salmon Bay Cafe) can make up great custom fuel lines. But you already knew that.
    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    Barnacle’s owners live out of state so aren’t around much unless they are preparing for a cruise. Every summer they take her to their beach house near the end of Hood Canal and stay there. All maintenance is done by Seaview, as she was long owned by Phil, the owner of the Seaview yards, they know her pretty well. She has her full cover off right now and it’s easy to see in the windows, but not much chance of catching the owner.
    Thanks for the NeBar recommendation Ron. I did know about them but they had not come to mind as a source this time so good to be reminded. And I did see that Barnacle's owners are out of state. But I might be able to use my Classic Yacht Association connections to get an intro anyway. We'll see.

  29. #2864
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Use the pattern to determine the width needed. I would probably cut the frame as a solid then slice the laminations out. It doesn't matter how so much as long as it works for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    I think you want to lay the batten inline next to the frame in the bilge. Make sure it takes the twist at the turn and does lie flat on the planks. The top should flare away, forward. The final form will look like a dog leg.
    That makes sense except that when I lay a batten down so that it lies flat against the planking it meets the frame at the top and bottom but not in the middle. Does it matter that I'm sistering aft of the frame instead of ahead?





    Both battens seem to lie against the planking with little twist. Looks like it would be fairly easy to spile the frame to fit.

  30. #2865
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Chris,
    It doesn't matter, put them down the center if you wish. If you keep them away from the old frames thru won't create debris traps.
    Last edited by navydog; 07-15-2018 at 05:12 PM.

  31. #2866
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    And lastly, for now at least, an update on the oil filter situation. I picked up a couple of gallons of Delo 100 and got down to the boat this afternoon to test out the new filter setup. Topped up the engine, started it up... No oil pressure at first (no surprise) and then it came up normally. "Great!" I thought. "Problem solved!"

    Or... not.



    Still leaking. Rats. I think I'm out of knowledge and solutions on this one. Before installing the adapter I cleaned and inspected the sealing faces as closely as I could without taking the filter base off entirely:



    And I installed the adapter per the spec, properly torqued to 45lbf. It's hard to tell but it looks like the leak is between the filter and the adapter this time. So next step is to take the filter off (after removing that fuel line again!) and clean the sealing surfaces. If that doesn't work I might need to just take the whole assembly off and deal with it in the shop. But first I'll see if anyone on the boatdiesel forum has any advice.

  32. #2867
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Chris,
    It doesn't matter, put them down the center if you wish. If you keep them away from the old frames thru won't great debris traps.
    Ok then!

  33. #2868
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Chris have you seen Twin Isles in the Seaview Yard? They have a few bottom planks off so you can see inside.

    52E629AB-11D4-45B3-9204-C8BD2A6676D0.jpg

  34. #2869
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    Chris have you seen Twin Isles in the Seaview Yard? They have a few bottom planks off so you can see inside.
    That's definitely worth a visit to have a look! She's another boat I like a lot. I had the whitehall tied up at her dock at Ewing St. a couple of summers ago and rowed by her all the time. I'll have to head over there but not this weekend. I battled traffic around the Ballard Seafood Festival for half an hour just to get to Petrel this afternoon. Not going to do that again.

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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    From the looks of some planks, she’ll be there a while.

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