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Thread: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

  1. #3851
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    I don't want to divert this thread either, but now that both Malibu Rapids and Don Mackenzie have been mentioned, this story is a pretty great read: http://mclarenmp4-12c.blogspot.com/2...res-yacht.html

    --Paul

  2. #3852
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    There a sluce just south of Blue Hill that creates white water on both tides. It's short and great for paddle boats. I don't think a big boat could fit through. We used to run it on inner tubes and beer.

  3. #3853
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by _QB_ View Post
    I don't want to divert this thread either, but now that both Malibu Rapids and Don Mackenzie have been mentioned, this story is a pretty great read: http://mclarenmp4-12c.blogspot.com/2...res-yacht.html

    --Paul
    Given all the ground we have covered over the last few years is it really possible to divert this thread with any post that is even remotely related to boats? That salvage story is amazing! Glad that Don Mackenzie made out well in the end. A just reward.


    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    There a sluce just south of Blue Hill that creates white water on both tides. It's short and great for paddle boats. I don't think a big boat could fit through. We used to run it on inner tubes and beer.
    The inner tubes outside and the beer inside I suppose? As in "hold my..."?

  4. #3854
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    Default

    The video is very deceptive making it look like a very simple ride in or past the park!

    One of the things I learned even though it was in paddle sports, Whitewater because it has so much air in it is less buoyant.

    Also larger boats like trawlers and fishing boats of that breed, have pretty small rudders, lest I'm mistaken.

    They could be rather sluggish in a froth but this is all speculation on my part.

    I'm just wondering is there a time at high slack tide that they can go through there?
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  5. #3855
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    The many passes and narrows of the Pacific coast are spectacularly beautiful and powerful places that the prudent mariner must respect. Some, such as Seymour Narrows, can run at over 10 knots. Others aren't quite that fast but have dangerous whirlpools and overfalls. The heavily-traveled Dodd Narrows south of Nanaimo has about a 20 minute slack, but you need to navigate a narrow channel in close single-file company with varying numbers of other vessels who may be under tenuous helm control.

    Here's how a local towing professional took on Sechelt Rapids. These are the kind of high pucker-factor places where even the pros will occasionally come to grief.



    Denise, my poor old Kingfisher is sometimes spun around as if she had no rudder at all in even the routine tidal boils that we see all over the place. Froth and foam? No thanks! Slack tide or no-go for us!




    .
    Last edited by Sabre; 03-13-2019 at 05:48 PM.
    --​Anson, M/V Kingfisher

    Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. ~The Dalai Lama

  6. #3856
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    I'm just wondering is there a time at high slack tide that they can go through there?
    There is a photo up a few posts of her being hauled on the Other Side so unless he trailered her in, it's possible

    I wonder which would be worse, going 25 knots downhill or 8 knots uphill but 9 backwards ?

    Cool story, _QB_. Thank you.

  7. #3857
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabre View Post
    The many passes and narrows of the Pacific coast are spectacularly beautiful and powerful places that the prudent mariner must respect. Some, such as Seymour Narrows, can run at over 10 knots. Others aren't quite that fast but have dangerous whirlpools and overfalls. The heavily-traveled Dodd Narrows south of Nanaimo has about a 20 minute slack, but you need to navigate a narrow channel in close single-file company with varying numbers of other vessels who may be under tenuous helm control.

    Here's how a local towing professional took on Sechelt Rapids. These are the kind of high pucker-factor places where even the pros will occasionally come to grief.



    Denise, my poor old Kingfisher is sometimes spun around as if she had no rudder at all in even the routine tidal boils that we see all over the place. Froth and foam? No thanks! Slack tide or no-go for us!




    .
    OMG, they must know what they're doing they wouldn't dare risk an oil spill, would they?
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  8. #3858
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabre View Post
    Here's how a local towing professional took on Sechelt Rapids.
    I don't care what he says, that was not planned. If he was a cat, he used up six of his nine lives !!

  9. #3859
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    That tow boat is no where big enough to be pulling a barge in that water.
    Last edited by navydog; 03-13-2019 at 08:04 PM.

  10. #3860
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    I'm sure they thought that they knew what they were doing, sure that they didn't want to risk a fuel spill, agree that it did not go as planned, and agree that the tow boat was too small for that water.

    Same rapids, bigger boat, worse outcome....



    Not to frighten anyone away from the amazing cruising grounds of the BC coast, but it makes me wonder, when even the professionals can have things go sideways in these waters, whether the advent of GPS-based "navigation for dummies" will lead to more boaters running afoul of such hazards.



    .
    Last edited by Sabre; 03-13-2019 at 07:58 PM.
    --​Anson, M/V Kingfisher

    Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. ~The Dalai Lama

  11. #3861
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    For most of my time with Accolade Campbell River was home port for our cruising ground in the Discovery Islands. Seymour Narrows is an hour north using the backeddies and Cape Mudge 45 mins south. With an eight-knot boat I would only transit places like this at slack tide other than perhaps in a flat calm. Running narrow channels in high currents around here is rolling the dice unless you have planing capacity with either engine. / Jim

  12. #3862
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    I'm not a tug captain but I've towed a few things. I think the same rules you use for towing on the road apply. It is imperative to keep the tow vehicle in front of the object under tow.

  13. #3863
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabre View Post
    I'm sure they thought that they knew what they were doing, sure that they didn't want to risk a fuel spill, agree that it did not go as planned, and agree that the tow boat was too small for that water.

    Same rapids, bigger boat, worse outcome....

    Not to frighten anyone away from the amazing cruising grounds of the BC coast, but it makes me wonder, when even the professionals can have things go sideways in these waters, whether the advent of GPS-based "navigation for dummies" will lead to more boaters running afoul of such hazards.

    .
    About 10 years ago I was sailing out around Southport Island - near Boothbay Harbor, ME. A big powerboat pulled up near us & hollered over "Where's Boothbay? I don't see it on the chart!". He held up a restaurant placemat that was imprinted with a chart & waved it at me. He'd come several hundred miles from Boston on that placemat.

    Don't need chartplotters to produce idjuts.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  14. #3864
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    what the heck happened in that capsize video ??
    did the barge run over the tow cable and suck the stern of the tug under ?

  15. #3865
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by coelcanth View Post
    what the heck happened in that capsize video ??
    did the barge run over the tow cable and suck the stern of the tug under ?
    The barge was pushed by the current faster than she was being towed and caught up to, and passed, the tow boat. The towing point on a tow boat is ahead of the rudder post, so if the cable is pulled athwartships the tow boat puts her rail under rather than being towed backwards. This commonly happens when a tug is towing "indirectly," at an angle to the tow, and the skipper balances helm and cable pull to prevent capsize. In the case of the video above, being pinned against the barge prevented maneuvering to recover from the inevitable.
    --​Anson, M/V Kingfisher

    Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. ~The Dalai Lama

  16. #3866
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    There is a TSB report on that tug and barge incident:

    http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-re...1/m09w0141.asp

    Seems like there were a number of factors involved but the most pertinent was that "...good seamanship would have dictated waiting for slack water before making the attempt."

    Indeed. James Fallows has an interesting piece in The Atlantic right now on the 737 MAX incidents. One comment he makes is that he and his wife, when setting out aboard their small plane in dicey conditions, would ask themselves "How would this look in the NTSB report?" I've read a few NTSB reports and frequently they illustrate the tragic consequences arising from trivial mistakes made by overconfident pilots.

    Reports on maritime accidents tend to follow a similar pattern. The recent NTSB report on the sinking of the f/v Destination reads: "The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the capsizing and sinking of the fishing vessel Destination was the captain’s decision to proceed during heavy freezing spray conditions without ensuring the vessel had a margin of stability to withstand an accumulation of ice or without taking sufficient mitigating action to avoid or limit the effects of icing."

    Going back to the video I posted of the boat going through Malibu Rapids. Maybe that skipper is enormously experienced with that boat and those waters, and had the skill to know that they could get through Malibu safely in those conditions, but I rather think they just got lucky. That boat was not under full control from the helm once they were in the current.

    It seems to me that much of seamanship - at least of the inshore sort that I am familiar with - comes down to knowing when to stay home. Personally, I am adding the "How would this look in the NTSB report?" question to my departure checklist. I can think of several occasions when asking myself that question would have resulted in a much better day on the water.

  17. #3867
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    All one needs to do is evaluate the potential worst case scenario. If running aground, capsizing or sinking, ect due to the conditions are in the evaluation stay home or run for shelter.

  18. #3868
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    As I mentioned in other posts, last summer we were riding a big ebb out of Puget Sound on our way across the Straits. "Wheeee!" says I as we pass Port Townsend at 13 knots. "Holy crap!" says I a while later when I realized that big ebb was also coming from at least two other directions into the Straits and have to meet somewhere, unfortunately under my boat. Some of the worst sea I've been in and with no wind. Lost the mast and radar overboard.

  19. #3869
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by coelcanth View Post
    what the heck happened in that capsize video ???
    From https://www.shipownersclub.com/media...e_A5_0715.pdf:

    Girting, girding or tripping (GGT)

    The terms mean the same thing and refer to the situation when a vessel, usually a tug, is towed broadside by a towline and is unable to manoeuvre out of this position.

    This phenomenon is known to all tug masters. It is the most prevalent reason for tugs to capsize and can cause fatalities. This occurs at either end of the tow and can happen very quickly. Rarely does it happen slowly enough to allow all of the crew to leave the tug before it capsizes. Tug masters must be aware of the phenomenon and understanding the quickrelease to the tow wire is essential if disaster is to be averted.

  20. #3870
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by _QB_ View Post
    ... understanding the quickrelease to the tow wire is essential if disaster is to be averted.
    Favorite was sunk at one time in her career. She was pulling some sort of equipment - a derrick ? - and it went down so fast they couldn't get the towline loose/cut. She has big axes on the cabin now

    The captain said he barely had time to grab his cat and jump. That much have been fun ... do they make cat life vests ?

    Insurance made her better than new ...

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Personally, I am adding the "How would this look in the NTSB report?" question to my departure checklist.
    Yes, but sometimes you have to attempt things that are a little bit more difficult than your ability. Otherwise your skills never improve. It's that same old chicken-egg thing, you need to be skilled to do it, but you need to do it to get the skills !

    I just whistle the theme from The High and the Mighty when we get into one a them predicaments
    Last edited by Favorite; 03-14-2019 at 05:25 PM.

  21. #3871
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by Favorite View Post
    ...I just whistle the theme from The High and the Mighty when we get into one a them predicaments
    When I learned how ugly it could get and still have Kingfisher shrug it off, my mouth was much too dry to whistle!

    I did learn a lot and gained a tremendous amount of confidence in her (she's way tougher than I am). And boy oh boy was I glad that the missus wasn't aboard. That would have been the end.
    --​Anson, M/V Kingfisher

    Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. ~The Dalai Lama

  22. #3872
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    [



    "Yes, but sometimes you have to attempt things that are a little bit more difficult than your ability. Otherwise your skills never improve. It's that same old chicken-egg thing, you need to be skilled to do it, but you need to do it to get the skills !

    I just whistle the theme from The High and the Mighty when we get into one a them predicaments :"

    There is opportunity in taking calculated risk, and there is tragedy in being foolhardy.

  23. #3873
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    There is opportunity in taking calculated risk, and there is tragedy in being foolhardy.
    Ah yes, but the trick is to know which is which in advance.

    On another subject, Romance is for sale. From Tad Roberts' Facebook post:



    "33' double-ended troller, 1946 John Group Oona River, 4-cylinder Isuzu, super economical operation." $15k. Tad doesn't say whether that's CAD or USD but either way I think it's a great boat for a very reasonable price. She was previously owned by Tad's son James, a shipwright of considerable skill, so I would assume she's in good condition.

  24. #3874
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Yes, "fools rush in" on another note Romance looks to be a fine boat.

  25. #3875

    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    These boats have been going up and down the coast since the '30s. A historian would give the correct time line. I know half BC Packers' Sunnyside fleet in 1970 came up from the lower mainland to fish the Skeena. The company boats were kept there.

  26. #3876
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Damn, gazing upon the lines of these traditional beauties is like ASMR for me...makes my brain go all tingle tingle.
    --​Anson, M/V Kingfisher

    Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. ~The Dalai Lama

  27. #3877
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabre View Post
    Damn, gazing upon the lines of these traditional beauties is like ASMR for me...makes my brain go all tingle tingle.
    There's an easy cure for that, ya know

  28. #3878
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Back to boat work. Finally! Headed up to Blaine last night and woke up this morning to the first sign of spring. Not robins in the yard, but Plover, the Semiahmoo ferry, back in service for the season:



    It was a beautiful day, so of course I spent it under cover working on the stove. First job was to open up the hole in the cabin top for the chimney. The original stove must have had a 4" stove pipe while the new Dickinson takes a 5" pipe. But a few minutes with a drill and jigsaw took care of that easily enough:



    Then I made the copper liner for the overhead:



    And finally installed the stove pipe...





    ... and the cap.



    Tomorrow I'm planning to plumb the fuel lines, wire up the fan and (fingers crossed) fire it up for the first time. Of course now the weather forecast is for seventy degrees and sunny next week... But better late than never I suppose.

  29. #3879
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    That looks great Chris!
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  30. #3880

    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Chris if that what it took to end this snow and cold, you should have done it a month ago. Spring is a month late.

    Looks great

    Ray.

  31. #3881
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    I took me a minute to understand I was looking over the side of the boat on the last pic. Like what the hell? Install looks great Chris. 70's already, I saw a snow flurry yesterday.

  32. #3882
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    the stove instal looks great, especially the overhead copper. nice job!

    jim

  33. #3883
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    Thanks everyone. I'm pretty happy with how the stove pipe turned out. But we are not done yet. Onward! Spent the morning working on the fuel lines, starting with the stove end of things. Copper tubing running from the fuel meter on the stove down to a shutoff valve mounted in the cabinet underneath the stove, and then to a fuel filter, and then to fuel hose up to the day tank:



    With that done I plumbed the day tank and mounted it in the deck box that used to hold the propane tank:



    The wires are for a fuel level sender. I'm planning to install a fuel gauge by the stove next to a switch for the transfer pump but that's a task for the future.

    With the fuel lines done it was time to fire it up. I haven't hooked up the transfer pump yet so the I filled the tank with a couple of gallons of diesel that I brought up for the purpose, opened the shutoff valves (one at the tank and one at the stove), checked all of the connections for leaks (all good) and then went through the starting ritual that I recalled from my years of living with a simlar stove aboard Savona:

    1. Open the metering valve to let in enough diesel to cover the bottom of the pot and then shut it off again.

    2. Turn on the draft fan about half-speed.

    3. Twist and light a small piece of paper, and drop it in the pool of diesel.

    4. Wait for the fuel to light and warm the burner up enough to sustain a clean burn.

    5. ....

    Well, step 5 is to open up the fuel meter again once the flame is burning cleanly. But I didn't get to step 5 because as soon as the fuel in the burner started burning the cabin was immediately filled with great clouds of black smoke. Not good! I quickly shut everything off and opened up all the doors and windows to air out the boat. While I was waiting for the smoke to clear I decided to check my memory against the instructions from Dickinson. Had I made some mistake? But no - their instructions were pretty much what I had been doing for years. Hm. Ok, maybe I had just flooded the burner or something. Let's see if a second attempt is better.

    Open the valve, turn on the fan, light the pool.... Black smoke everywhere again. Bleah. Maybe I didn't have the fan on high enough? But no, turning the fan up just made the smoke worse. Wait... what? Turning the fan up makes the smoke worse... Turning the fan UP makes the smoke WORSE. Ah ha! I quickly swapped the leads on the fan and immediately the smoke started heading up the chimney where it belonged, the air in the cabin cleared, and the stove started burning with the bright clean flame I remembered.



    Ahhhh. Happiness. It was only later that I recalled Paul telling me that some former owner had reversed the color coding on many of the DC wires. The one I used (which was labeled "galley blower" appropriately enough) must have been one of those. I'm now trying to resist the urge to find every one of those wires and fix them.

    At any rate, the stove is in and working now. I still have some minor tasks still to complete like installing the fuel gauge and plumbing the transfer pump but we have heat again. Just in time for the warm weather but at least it will be ready for Fall. And for cool nights and mornings which we can get any time of the year around here.

  34. #3884
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    At #3 I open the direct vent to the stovepipe and preheat the chimney to establish draft. I have smoked the cabin before but my set-up differs somewhat from your own.

    The sun is on Accolade for much of the day now; she's waking up! / Jim

  35. #3885
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    Default Re: Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

    It's ALIVE!

    Really pretty installation, Chris. Just beautiful.
    --​Anson, M/V Kingfisher

    Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. ~The Dalai Lama

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