Restoration of the BC Salmon Troller "Petrel"

[Garret]

Those must be old photos. No way a bench stays looking like that for more than a day or so.

Last week I was working with a friend who was a high school shop teacher for 30+ years. As he put the impact driver, box of screws & misc. other stuff on my table saw, he said "I used to tell my students that a table saw is not to be used as a table." My response was "Well then why did they call it a "table" saw?

I haven't seen the blade slot in a month... Whose maxim is it that says "All horizontal surfaces will be filled"?

[Downwindtracker2]

I think there is a law in physics where things on a workbench accumulate until they start sliding off. If I could post photos ,you would see it in action. Great old bench, Chris.

[cstevens]

^^ Thanks Ray. Like the rest of us I spend my life trying to keep horizontal surfaces from collecting every random thing. In fact we are in the middle of a huge top-to-bottom house organization project right now with the goal of finally having a place to put everything. I'll be happy when that's done (not that I expect it to be permanent or anything) but it has been eating into time for Petrel the last few weeks. We should be through the worst of it after this weekend though and I'll be back to work on the boat in earnest.

[Psuggmog]

Then I spent some time this evening digging through the stacks at the nearest Home Depot in search of wood for the shelf project. The selection of 2x4s was miserable. Not even worth the effort to comb through the pile. But they had DF 4x4s that weren't too bad

Next time you need wood, go to Limbacks on Market Ave. in Ballard. They are one of the last of the old time Seattle Lumberyards. They make a real effort to get the best materials available for a fair price. The experience is like travelling back in time. You can still buy bulk nails and screws there. It is as much fun as going to Hardwick's and closer to Petrel and your shop that the mediocre box stores.

[cstevens]

Next time you need wood, go to Limbacks on Market Ave. in Ballard. They are one of the last of the old time Seattle Lumberyards. They make a real effort to get the best materials available for a fair price. The experience is like travelling back in time. You can still buy bulk nails and screws there. It is as much fun as going to Hardwick's and closer to Petrel and your shop that the mediocre box stores.

Yes - my foray to Home Depot was more in the spirit of experiment. What sort of wood can I get from the big box? But you're right. Limbacks is right across the street from Petrel and a couple of blocks away from my office. With Blackstock gone they are about the last old-school lumber yard in Seattle. I've shopped for various supplies there in the past but not for lumber. Next time.

[DeniseO30]

Yes - my foray to Home Depot was more in the spirit of experiment. What sort of wood can I get from the big box? But you're right. Limbacks is right across the street from Petrel and a couple of blocks away from my office. With Blackstock gone they are about the last old-school lumber yard in Seattle. I've shopped for various supplies there in the past but not for lumber. Next time.

Bridge Builders playing with an erector set This could get (or already is) really complicated Chris. Framing Lumber with straight lines, small knots, should get you the lumber you need. The crooked ones can be cut up for cross pieces.

What I often do when I need a straight grain board out of framing Lumber is get a 2X10 or larger because they will often have the pith in the center, ((((((o)))))) 2 rip cuts gets out some nice boards.

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[Downwindtracker2]

I never cared for the truly old time yards, I didn't get a chance to pick through. In the '70 a lumberyard started a drive in and pick your own. Our local yard was one of them, though it gone through few name changes. Lowes took over now. If my memory from the sawmill days holds, a bundle of #2 & BTR will hold about 10% #1 . On a similar note I only know of two old fashioned hardware stores, one in Bellingham and the other in Prince George.

[Garret]

I never cared for the truly old time yards, I didn't get a chance to pick through. In the '70 a lumberyard started a drive in and pick your own. Our local yard was one of them, though it gone through few name changes. Lowes took over now. If my memory from the sawmill days holds, a bundle of #2 & BTR will hold about 10% #1 . On a similar note I only know of two old fashioned hardware stores, one in Bellingham and the other in Prince George.

Both mills & lumberyards around here will let you pick - as long as you leave the stacks neat. Leaving them a mess will lose you your privileges in a big hurry.

[cstevens]

^^^ Yes, that's been my experience as well. If you are friendly and look like you know what you are doing (I can fake it well enough I guess) then they will let you pick through the stacks.

Denise, thanks for the tips on using framing lumber. The larger stuff at HD was definitely better. There were some DF 4x6s there that were nicer than the 4x4s I found. And some 2x12s. But they were all at least 10' long and I'm dealing with a bum elbow that's been bugging me for over a year now (doc says I have golfer's elbow but that's a sport I've never tried so I'm calling it "sander's elbow"). So lifting anything heavier than 4x4x8 is a stretch right now. Ugh.

[DeniseO30]

Chris, this guy talks well about using framing lumber.

[Garret]

Having just returned from picking out 20 2x8x10 pressure treated boards at the Despot I can attest to using the big boxes requiring patience.

Getting 4 good 6x6x12 PT was also great fun...

[DeniseO30]

Having just returned from picking out 20 2x8x10 pressure treated boards at the Despot I can attest to using the big boxes requiring patience.

Getting 4 good 6x6x12 PT was also great fun...

L& I Official states: "you need a permit" ... "I have a permit" I countered. "It expired" "How was I to know this?" Then I decided to go silent. Gave them a note saying I'll wait until spring to pull a new permit.

I was feeling pretty proud of this! My next door neighbor thought it was pretty impressive I was pretty impressed with myself! Even though every muscle in my body is still sore.

The concrete stoop (under the new wood) sank and tilted and the wooden basement entrance kept rotting away.

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[Garret]

Permit? Wazzat? Just do it quickly - though that's hard when it's in view of the street.

Looking good!

Mine is out of view. Got one done (except for the railing) & starting on the next:

DeckNew.jpg

[DeniseO30]

Permit? Wazzat? Just do it quickly - though that's hard when it's in view of the street.

Looking good!

Mine is out of view. Got one done (except for the railing) & starting on the next:

DeckNew.jpg

The really awful thing about the location in my house, the Borough building is directly behind my backyard the building inspector can walk out of his office & look out the window into my backyard. it makes my other two neighbors and me insane, it borderlines harassment but what can you do,

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[Garret]

What a drag! Something to check for before buying a place I guess...

[cstevens]

Denise and Garret, those porches look great. Nice! My shelf project is poking along. We are still deep in the house organization project so I spent most of the day going through the pantry. But I did get a bit of time in the workshop. Cleared enough space to start working and picked through the 4x4s to find the straightest ones to use for the posts. Next step is to cut the posts down to 60". My best option for that is a circular saw but it won't cut all the way through so I'm thinking of cutting most of the way with the circular saw and finishing off with a hand saw, unless anyone has a better suggestion:



(I could make two cuts with the circular saw of course, one from each side, but I think the hand saw will give me a better chance of a clean cut). I'm also planning to cut it just a bit long and clean up the ends with a block plane although again any advice here would be welcome. I'm not going to start sawing until tomorrow in any case as it's been a long day and I don't plan on working with power tools when I'm tired.

I did spend some time trying to set up this table saw so I could rip the wood for the sides though.



It was free. Left behind when a friend moved to Australia a few weeks ago. And I think it was worth every penny. I fiddled with the cheap, stamped steel fence for a while but I was unable to get it to stay in place. Any sideways pressure would put it out of alignment. So that's worthless then. Looks like I'm on the hunt for a table saw. I'd love an old Unisaw or similar, with a cast iron base and a big table. But I've pretty much blown my tool buying budget for a while so more likely I'll end up with a used Craftsman.

And finally, a minor, random event: I don't drink iced tea at all but my wife does. And a bottle of Honest Tea was the only cold beverage in the house when I went hunting in the refrigerator for something to drink this afternoon. They print quotes on the inside of the tops, and this is what I got.



I'll take it.

[DeniseO30]

Denise and Garret, those porches look great. Nice! My shelf project is poking along. We are still deep in the house organization project so I spent most of the day going through the pantry. But I did get a bit of time in the workshop. Cleared enough space to start working and picked through the 4x4s to find the straightest ones to use for the posts. Next step is to cut the posts down to 60". My best option for that is a circular saw but it won't cut all the way through so I'm thinking of cutting most of the way with the circular saw and finishing off with a hand saw, unless anyone has a better suggestion:



(I could make two cuts with the circular saw of course, one from each side, but I think the hand saw will give me a better chance of a clean cut). I'm also planning to cut it just a bit long and clean up the ends with a block plane although again any advice here would be welcome. I'm not going to start sawing until tomorrow in any case as it's been a long day and I don't plan on working with power tools when I'm tired.

I did spend some time trying to set up this table saw so I could rip the wood for the sides though.



It was free. Left behind when a friend moved to Australia a few weeks ago. And I think it was worth every penny. I fiddled with the cheap, stamped steel fence for a while but I was unable to get it to stay in place. Any sideways pressure would put it out of alignment. So that's worthless then. Looks like I'm on the hunt for a table saw. I'd love an old Unisaw or similar, with a cast iron base and a big table. But I've pretty much blown my tool buying budget for a while so more likely I'll end up with a used Craftsman.

And finally, a minor, random event: I don't drink iced tea at all but my wife does. And a bottle of Honest Tea was the only cold beverage in the house when I went hunting in the refrigerator for something to drink this afternoon. They print quotes on the inside of the tops, and this is what I got.



I'll take it.

Chris if runs, use it! you can make a better fence, just remember everything on a table saw is trued by the miter slide slots. For, ripping I would suggest a 24 tooth blade not an expensive 80 tooth blade, if you are ripping the 4 x 4 Lumber you may want to screw on a guide board so the cut is straight and doesn't follow the curve of the 4 x 4

using a circular saw while holding it against a square is a skill I do not possess lol, I often screw or clamp a piece across a large board for in this case four by four to keep the saw Square.

Thanks for compliment on the porch! I have a feeling I'm not going to finish it this year

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[Garret]

Thanks for the compliment!

I lucked out on my table saw (the one that's covered with stuff right now) in that it came with a really good fence. Remember that all a fence is is a guide- so you can clamp a piece of wood on & it'll do the same thing. Watch Craigs List for saws - also auctions.

[Downwindtracker2]

When Makita started selling those handy little job site table saws, they only had 8 1/4" blade. Truth be known, that's about all the power they have. With a extension cord, if they were 15 amps and you are ripping full depth, you would regularly trip the house's circuit breaker. About the same as a Skilfull saw. Putting a 10" blade on them is pure marketing. For ripping 4x4, you may have to do it in 4 stages.

Safety

Underpowered saws are very dangerous, they are much more vicious about kickbacks , stand aside, it's better if the stock goes through the wall than you. Same thing holds true for bullets.

Remember the 12" rule. Keep fingers 12" away from blades so you can order 10 beer. I've been using a Dewalts for 57 years, at times as sawyer on big construction jobs, and I can still order 10 beer. At my age I can't drink that many, or even afford them.

[cstevens]

Chris if runs, use it! you can make a better fence, just remember everything on a table saw is trued by the miter slide slots. For, ripping I would suggest a 24 tooth blade not an expensive 80 tooth blade, if you are ripping the 4 x 4 Lumber you may want to screw on a guide board so the cut is straight and doesn't follow the curve of the 4 x 4

using a circular saw while holding it against a square is a skill I do not possess lol, I often screw or clamp a piece across a large board for in this case four by four to keep the saw Square.

Thanks for compliment on the porch! I have a feeling I'm not going to finish it this year

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Thanks for the compliment!

I lucked out on my table saw (the one that's covered with stuff right now) in that it came with a really good fence. Remember that all a fence is is a guide- so you can clamp a piece of wood on & it'll do the same thing. Watch Craigs List for saws - also auctions.

A DIY fence? Hmmm. Maybe. Based on these comments I played around with it a bit more but this thing is a complete piece of junk. There is just nothing to clamp a board to. I might be able to screw some sort of extension to the top to use as a clamping surface but I'm not sure I want to spend even that much effort on this saw.

When Makita started selling those handy little job site table saws, they only had 8 1/4" blade. Truth be known, that's about all the power they have. With a extension cord, if they were 15 amps and you are ripping full depth, you would regularly trip the house's circuit breaker. About the same as a Skilfull saw. Putting a 10" blade on them is pure marketing. For ripping 4x4, you may have to do it in 4 stages.

Safety

Underpowered saws are very dangerous, they are much more vicious about kickbacks , stand aside, it's better if the stock goes through the wall than you. Same thing holds true for bullets.

Remember the 12" rule. Keep fingers 12" away from blades so you can order 10 beer. I've been using a Dewalts for 57 years, at times as sawyer on big construction jobs, and I can still order 10 beer. At my age I can't drink that many, or even afford them.

Thanks for the tips Ray. I hadn't thought that I would need to rip in multiple passes with a less powerful saw so that's a good thing to know. And I might end up with a newer (or new) DeWalt contractor's saw but I'm going to hold out for something a bit larger for a while and see what shows up. The craigslist selection is surprisingly thin right now but I'm sure that will change. In the meantime I can still cut the posts to length and cut the mortises. That will take some time.

[Wagemaker]

Inspiring work...thank you for the adventure.

WgMkr

[Downwindtracker2]

We are only three hours away on I-5, but Seattle and Vancouver have pretty different CLs. Used table saws prices have really dropped since SawStop saws have come out. Where Unisaws once were $1000 used, they are now $500 . I paid $2200 for mine new in '89. Around here a true gem shows up once in while, a 10" Delta Contractor saws with 1 1/2hp motors for $50. The same price as the used POS plastic and aluminum ones. You'll have to filter out a bunch of Sears Craftsman on your CL. When my sons bought their houses I gave them each a Delta table saw and a DeWalt radial arm saw. By coaming CL, it cost me $100 each for a house warming present .

When I was an carpenter apprentice, my journeyman was also a commercial fisherman. His comment when he redid his interior of his boat, was "There's not a straight line anywhere." With that in mind, if I were you, I would look for an old Delta 14" band saw. Unless your wife wants a new kitchen, they are handier than table saws. Safer,too. For cutting plywood, a track and a sidewinder Skilsaw does a good job when use sacrificial 2x4s on saw horses.

[schoonerjay]

Chris, I have a DeWalt contractor's table saw (mainly due to cost and space constraints when I originally got it) - it's been a solid, portable saw but it has a necessarily small table surface, making it difficult and dangerous to cut up large sheet goods (I use a track guide and circular saw for that now). I'd have to go and look but I don't think it would cut all the way through a 4 x 4. (Edit - in one pass anyway but since it has a very solid and reliable fence you could easily flip it and saw through the other side.) A bandsaw would be just the ticket for that operation! (And for safety too - the thought of trying to safely clamp a 4 x 4 and use a circular saw atop gives me the willies!) Any chance a small but serviceable get-you-by bandsaw is available?

[DeniseO30]

Chris, I have a DeWalt contractor's table saw (mainly due to cost and space constraints when I originally got it) - it's been a solid, portable saw but it has a necessarily small table surface, making it difficult and dangerous to cut up large sheet goods (I use a track guide and circular saw for that now). I'd have to go and look but I don't think it would cut all the way through a 4 x 4. (Edit - in one pass anyway but since it has a very solid and reliable fence you could easily flip it and saw through the other side.) A bandsaw would be just the ticket for that operation! (And for safety too - the thought of trying to safely clamp a 4 x 4 and use a circular saw atop gives me the willies!) Any chance a small but serviceable get-you-by bandsaw is available?

It's not possible for a 10-inch table saw to cut a 4x4 completely through, either with the smallest possible Arbor we would still lose 2 inches off the diameter.

rip & flip (end for end) works well on framing Lumber even hardwood lumber. The only time it's hard or difficult is when there is a curve or a warp in the lumber,.

And let's try to remember, everybody! Chris is building shelves, not a boat!

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[cstevens]

^^^ I had been thinking I should use a table saw to rip the 4x4s in half but after reading a bit more now I'm not so sure. Lots of posts saying that it's dangerous on the table saw (blade at the top of it's range, heavy piece of wood to cut though, a bad combination...). But a decent-looking Rockwell 10" with a Unifence just showed up on craigslist for $150 so I might buy it and the tool budget be damned. That seems like a good saw for the money, especially with the upgraded fence. And we do eventually need a new kitchen so there's that.

But now of course I'm thinking about bandsaws. There's a Ridgid 14" bandsaw nearby for $300. Not quite cheap. Not in the budget. But still tempting.

[cstevens]

It's not possible for a 10-inch table saw to cut a 4x4 completely through, either with the smallest possible Arbor we would still lose 2 inches off the diameter.

rip & flip (end for end) works well on framing Lumber even hardwood lumber. The only time it's hard or difficult is when there is a curve or a warp in the lumber,.

And let's try to remember, everybody! Chris is building shelves, not a boat!

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Thanks Denise. That wasn't clear initially but I did eventually figure it out after reading more on ripping with a table saw last night Bandsaw still seems like it might be a better idea though? And yes, I'm building shelves but also trying to acquire some skills and tools that will help me on the boat as well.

[ron ll]

Chris, I was looking for ways to tune up my old table saw and discovered there are several YouTubes on altering a cheap saw to make it useful. Knowing you, you’ve probably already seen them. But just in case...

I really need a better fence on mine, but it is too small to try to adapt a Beisemeyer type fence, so I just live with re-squaring it every time I move it.

CD36291E-22E5-4167-8AE7-76905D851FA2.jpg

613A1F03-E375-4088-8078-2FFE1BE0F1A0.jpg

(I still haven’t figured out how to rotate photos with this new system.)

[transplant_wi]

You can rip a 4x4 more safely in two passes. Set the blade a little higher than half the thickness of the board, rip one side, then flip it so the first cut is on top, then rip the other side to separate the two halves. Make sure the outfeed is well supported, push the workpiece all the way through, and get to offcut away from the blade quickly so it doesn't grab it. Be sure to use push blocks, and I highly recommend a zero clearance throat insert having a fin or riving knife. Kickback is something to fear. Overall a bandsaw may be safer, just take it slow.

Enjoying your journey vicariously,

Al

[cstevens]

Chris, I was looking for ways to tune up my old table saw and discovered there are several YouTubes on altering a cheap saw to make it useful. Knowing you, you’ve probably already seen them. But just in case...

I really need a better fence on mine, but it is too small to try to adapt a Beisemeyer type fence, so I just live with re-squaring it every time I move it.

Thanks Ron. Yes, I've seen various posts on improving table saws. The fence being the main thing it seems. And I briefly considered going that route but in the end this cheap little saw I have just doesn't seem worth it. I'd rather start with something belt-driven and with a cast iron top at least. Either an older Craftsman 10" or this Rockwell that I may look at today.

[cstevens]

You can rip a 4x4 more safely in two passes. Set the blade a little higher than half the thickness of the board, rip one side, then flip it so the first cut is on top, then rip the other side to separate the two halves. Make sure the outfeed is well supported, push the workpiece all the way through, and get to offcut away from the blade quickly so it doesn't grab it. Be sure to use push blocks, and I highly recommend a zero clearance throat insert having a fin or riving knife. Kickback is something to fear. Overall a bandsaw may be safer, just take it slow.

Enjoying your journey vicariously,

Al

Thanks Al. Glad you are enjoying it! And thanks for the advice. I'm learning a ton from everyone here.

[Downwindtracker2]

At $150 for a Unisaw, , that's jump in the truck and get there before someone else does. The joy of those Delta 14" and it's clones bandsaws is the large number of after market parts. Even a nasty Chinese one can be made into a good bandsaw. A Ridgid is a better Chinese. You should be able to find a real made in USA Delta, the later Delta were made in Asia, in the $250 range. But that price, it's get there first.

[cstevens]

^^^ Not a Unisaw unfortunately. I wish! Just an ordinary Rockwell contractor's saw. But it does have an upgraded Unifence which would cost me more than the price of the saw to buy new so I still think it's worth a look.

[DeniseO30]

Thanks Denise. That wasn't clear initially but I did eventually figure it out after reading more on ripping with a table saw last night Bandsaw still seems like it might be a better idea though? And yes, I'm building shelves but also trying to acquire some skills and tools that will help me on the boat as well.

That unisaw could be a great deal!!

A new ripping blade will make the biggest difference whatever saw you use!

If you make a rip guide out of plywood be sure it's slippery with varnish, wax Teflon, whatever. If you can't clamp it to the saw top, drill holes and bolt it down,
If you set the blade height at half of the lumber height when you flip it you have a small ridge in the center, that can be planed or scraped off. We did this with a small truck load of 5 x 5 Beech Lumber that we used for my bench. some of it was done on the bandsaw but we took it back to the table saw

You can also rip your 4x4s with a guided circular saw just by walking along side and then true up the sticks on the table saw.

You don't want to make yourself crazy over this Chris. I had a surprise last night, my wood lathe of 20 years broke its tailstock casting. Arrrg! Thankfully the part is still available but who wants to spend money this time of the year!

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[Downwindtracker2]

With a Unifence, it's worth looking and bargaining. I've used both the Biesmeyer, he was a shipwright BTW, and the Unifence. The Unifence is worth the price alone, you get the saw for free! I picked my saw over a General 350 just because of the fence. Though the General was a better saw, it only had a Biesmeyer fence.

[DeniseO30]

With a Unifence, it's worth looking and bargaining. I've used both the Biesmeyer, he was a shipwright BTW, and the Unifence. The Unifence is worth the price alone, you get the saw for free! I picked my saw over a General 350 just because of the fence. Though the General was a better saw, it only had a Biesmeyer fence.

Hey Chris ... A few pictures worth so many words....

My almost 30 year old Delta contractor saw, still very accurate and the fence is still very very good even though it's not a biesemeyer The blade is a all purpose not a ripping blade, but the saw really didn't struggle cutting through wet yellow pine. We/I have done the same with ash, white oak, beech, & maple

This short 4X4 was only slightly out of square and slightly curved. the longer they get the more trouble the curve and twist will become, this is still wet this piece, what I like about cutting 4x4 and larger is how you can choose the way the grain will go. if you look at the ends you see what I mean

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