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Thread: Just asking?

  1. #1
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    Default Just asking?

    We have all approached jobs having made up our minds on the method to be use then someone throws a spanner in the works and it becomes a problem.
    One of mine was a relatively simple one of relaying linoleum in a bathroom.

    Having started to uplift the old lino the Lady of the house appeared and asked if I could fit it around the base of the toilet better than the last time. Looking at the sort of elliptical shape at the base I thought I cannot get it any better than that the only flaw that I could see was a split between the back of the pot and the wall where it had been "peeled" apart to fit the lino around the base.

    Disturbing the plumbing was inconceivable.

    What could I do?


    The reason I bring this up is I am refurbishing one of my bathrooms and believe me at my age the floor gets further away, and working on one's knees is depressing to put it mildly.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    I'd have that toilet out in five minutes and do the job right in half the time.

    Last year I painted our bathroom, three coats of gloss marine enamel, toilet in and out three times in as many days in order to paint behind the tank.

    Wanna see the pictures?
    Last edited by Jim Ledger; 07-14-2016 at 09:32 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    By all means disturb the plumbing. Whoever laid the current lino was a lazy worthless installer (hope is was not you). Pulling the toilet involves nothing more than removing two nuts, one on either side of the base and loosening and disconnecting the supply line after you turn of the water, of course. Tools required to do the job are a pair of slip joint pliers. Worst case scenario the two nuts will not turn and need to be hacksawed off. Most times I place the toilet into the bathtub on a nice bed of newspapers. Now you have a clear shot at laying the lino neatly cutting around the fitting. Put on a nice new wax ring, reset the toilet and Bob's yer uncle. I am 82 and can still do it—knees and all. Get busy.

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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Remove the toilet, lay the flooring to the sewer pipe (with cut-outs for the mounting bolts), and re-install the toilet - with a new wax 'donut' - on top of the new flooring. If the notion of an unsealed crevice between the toilet and the flooring upsets Her Ladyship, run a small bead of clear caulking around the toilet base. Clean, no cuts or curls, and you have peace of mind with a new wax seal under the toilet base.


    Ooops! Cross-post with Oldad.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    When id doubt, go to Youtube and look for a video on the subject, there must be a few dozen.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    I'll echo the posters above: Pull the toilet (Is that the question)? I agree, don't touch the plumbing - but that should be safely in the floor (drain) and wall (supply). (I figure the toilet is a fixture, not plumbing...)

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    I wonder how many of the people making helpful suggestions have any experience of British plumbing?

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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Is there a chain to pull?

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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    I wonder how many of the people making helpful suggestions have any experience of British plumbing?
    Oh this is british? You're done for. I bet the sink has a hot and a cold faucet so far apart that never shall the streams meet! Best to just give up now.

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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    I wonder how many of the people making helpful suggestions have any experience of British plumbing?
    not me.


    btw: this is now the new extent of my knowledge of british toilets...http://www.wickes.co.uk/how-to-guide...m/fit-a-toilet

    my suggestion has not changed...
    Last edited by essaunders; 07-14-2016 at 03:58 PM. Reason: snippiness

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    I'd have that toilet out in five minutes and do the job right in half the time.

    Last year I painted our bathroom, three coats of gloss marine enamel, toilet in and out three times in as many days in order to paint behind the tank.

    Wanna see the pictures?
    Feel free Jim that must have been some graffiti to warrant that amount of coverage to obliterate.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    Feel free Jim that must have been some graffiti to warrant that amount of coverage to obliterate.

    New work, actually, plus a coat of white primer,

    Hey, Chippie, you're a carpenter, I'd think you would know this kind of thing by now.
    Last edited by Jim Ledger; 07-14-2016 at 04:34 PM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    I wonder how many of the people making helpful suggestions have any experience of British plumbing?
    Is it all made by Lucas?
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldad View Post
    By all means disturb the plumbing. Whoever laid the current lino was a lazy worthless installer (hope is was not you). Pulling the toilet involves nothing more than removing two nuts, one on either side of the base and loosening and disconnecting the supply line after you turn of the water, of course. Tools required to do the job are a pair of slip joint pliers. Worst case scenario the two nuts will not turn and need to be hacksawed off. Most times I place the toilet into the bathtub on a nice bed of newspapers. Now you have a clear shot at laying the lino neatly cutting around the fitting. Put on a nice new wax ring, reset the toilet and Bob's yer uncle. I am 82 and can still do it—knees and all. Get busy.
    No wax donut but the original plastic lip seal fitting should be fit to be reused.
    Turn off the water supply to the cistern, now is the time to fit one of these if there is not one there already. http://www.screwfix.com/p/15mm-isola...FcsW0wodNwMP5A
    Empty the cistern, disconnect the pan from the floor and soil pipe, slide out of the way. Plug the soil pipe with rags to control noxious gasses.
    Lay your floor.
    Put it all back together.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Just asking?

    That whole wax ring toilet mounting system seems to be unique to the US. Every time I see it on one those home renovating type shows, I always think it looks dodgy as hell, and a prelude to an unsanitary disaster.
    Our porcelain has a bit of a spigot, that plugs securely into a plumbing fitting with a rubber lip seal.

    Pete
    Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!

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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Quote Originally Posted by epoxyboy View Post
    That whole wax ring toilet mounting system seems to be unique to the US. Every time I see it on one those home renovating type shows, I always think it looks dodgy as hell, and a prelude to an unsanitary disaster.
    Our porcelain has a bit of a spigot, that plugs securely into a plumbing fitting with a rubber lip seal.

    Pete
    They last as long as a toilet does. I've pulled 50 year old toilets that never had a bit of a problem. Rubber can dry out and/or crack.

    I look at it as appropriate technology. Costs about $2.00US whenever you pull the fixture.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Chippie is from Britain? That would change things a bit. As for 'dodgy' wax donuts, yes, it is different than in Europe, but it does work well. I renovated the bathroom in my last house, which had been constructed in 1962. The wax seal was intact, not contaminated in any way, and looking like it was ready to serve well for another 45 years. I'll take that kind of dodgy technology any day...
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    I wonder how many of the people making helpful suggestions have any experience of British plumbing?
    I became acquainted with the interior workings of an "Ideal Standard" toilet some years ago. A true example of over the top complexity3

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Amer. Eng., tank, Brit. Eng., cistern
    Two cultures separated by a common language.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldad View Post
    When id doubt, go to Youtube and look for a video on the subject, there must be a few dozen.
    I took your advice and all seemed to indicate removal of the toilet. however I was amused at the complicated methods of simply laying a piece of flooring.
    I wonder what the Forum would come up with?


    Quote Originally Posted by Oldad View Post
    By all means disturb the plumbing. Whoever laid the current lino was a lazy worthless installer (hope is was not you). Pulling the toilet involves nothing more than removing two nuts, one on either side of the base and loosening and disconnecting the supply line after you turn of the water, of course. Tools required to do the job are a pair of slip joint pliers. Worst case scenario the two nuts will not turn and need to be hacksawed off. Most times I place the toilet into the bathtub on a nice bed of newspapers. Now you have a clear shot at laying the lino neatly cutting around the fitting. Put on a nice new wax ring, reset the toilet and Bob's yer uncle. I am 82 and can still do it—knees and all. Get busy.
    The first time was around 1963 when I first encountered the problem and my knees had no idea what they would encounter over the coming years old chap. However I applaud the fact that yours are giving you no trouble.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    Is there a chain to pull?
    Can one be pushed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    New work, actually, plus a coat of white primer,

    Hey, Chippie, you're a carpenter, I'd think you would know this kind of thing by now.
    Jim my OP does say "a relatively" simple job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    No wax donut but the original plastic lip seal fitting should be fit to be reused.
    Turn off the water supply to the cistern, now is the time to fit one of these if there is not one there already. http://www.screwfix.com/p/15mm-isola...FcsW0wodNwMP5A
    Empty the cistern, disconnect the pan from the floor and soil pipe, slide out of the way. Plug the soil pipe with rags to control noxious gasses.
    Lay your floor.
    Put it all back together.
    I take it that you are on the mend Nick, good.

    Fortunately the discharges are through the wall to the soil pipes so the only fitting would be around the pan base.


    PS I may add that I am working single handed otherwise my solution would not have arisen.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Why does "editing" not work for me?

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post

    I take it that you are on the mend Nick, good.
    Yes, thanks mate.
    I'm up and walking with the support of a zimmer frame, then come crutches. They are talking about taking the clips out of the incisions within a couple of days.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  23. #23
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldad View Post
    By all means disturb the plumbing. Whoever laid the current lino was a lazy worthless installer (hope is was not you). Pulling the toilet involves nothing more than removing two nuts, one on either side of the base and loosening and disconnecting the supply line after you turn of the water, of course. Tools required to do the job are a pair of slip joint pliers. Worst case scenario the two nuts will not turn and need to be hacksawed off. Most times I place the toilet into the bathtub on a nice bed of newspapers. Now you have a clear shot at laying the lino neatly cutting around the fitting. Put on a nice new wax ring, reset the toilet and Bob's yer uncle. I am 82 and can still do it—knees and all. Get busy.
    One problem that is encountered in the UK is concrete floors. The installers don't bother drilling holes to install the pan, they just lump a good shovel full of mortar on the floor, place the pan on top, wiggle it about to get things lined up and leave it to set. The only way to get the pan out is a hammer and chisel and the pan ends up in pieces. So, to replace the lino you either cut round the base of the pan or buy a new toilet as well. DAMHIKT

    Nick

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    As I said above I was amused at some of the methods used to fit a piece of lino into a room, when I was advised to look on u-tube.

    All that is needed is two lines at right angles to one another (a cross) as a datum. Carry the ends of the datum up the four points where it hits the walls, this helps to check that the datum on the new piece is marrying up to the old position. Pick up the dimensions from cross to perimeter.
    Most people will know this on here anyway I suppose.

    Using that method you can pick up and transfer ANY shape to the new lino. It fits first time in dropping no messing about. If for instance a strange shaped wall occurs, template and mark the position of the datum line it covers and mark distances from the other datum onto the template.

    The eight bathrooms I have done for the family have skirting boards that can be removed, making it even easier to fit floor coverings.

    All I have done since 1963 is lift the pot sufficiently,6mm, to remove the old , and slide the new under.

    How would you keep the pot up to do that is really what I'm asking? Remember I am alone and wedges are useless.
     


    Jim I think I read you asking " what was underneath " the old covering? Just carpet felt to impart a "feeling " of softness, I hate carpeted bathrooms.

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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    We have all approached jobs having made up our minds on the method to be use then someone throws a spanner in the works and it becomes a problem.
    One of mine was a relatively simple one of relaying linoleum in a bathroom.
    Spanner in the works. Here in the States we have John Lennon to thank for understanding what that means. His book, Spaniard in the Works. Here we just throw a monkey wrench at it. BTW turn off the water, then flush. Makes the toilet a lot easier to lift.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post

    All I have done since 1963 is lift the pot sufficiently,6mm, to remove the old , and slide the new under.

    How would you keep the pot up to do that is really what I'm asking? Remember I am alone and wedges are useless.
     


    Jim I think I read you asking " what was underneath " the old covering? Just carpet felt to impart a "feeling " of softness, I hate carpeted bathrooms.
    Empty the cistern of water, disconnect the pot and slide it out of the door.
    Fit the lino, slide it back and reconnect.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  27. #27
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Hey Chippie, the proper process for a job like this is to take a template of the cutout using MDF sheet or joggle sticks and a glue gun, transfer the template info to the lino and make the cutout. Then lay the lino , which is where you discover the hole is on the other side of the room and you get to say " there. happy now?"

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    Jim I think I read you asking " what was underneath " the old covering? Just carpet felt to impart a "feeling " of softness, I hate carpeted bathrooms.

    I agree with you there, Chippie, a carpeted bathroom make about as much sense as a carpeted boat.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post
    Why does "editing" not work for me?
    Do not forget to save your edit. The radiobutton in the lower right corner of the editing screen.
    Steve Martinsen

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mahan View Post
    I can't a edit a post I just made until I first return to the main subforum, bilge or whatever, and then re-open the thread and then the post to edit.
    I tried both of them.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    No again.

    Compose/Post/Recall/Edit/Save and usually it post back with the "edit" there?

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    What browser are you using? May be your software.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  33. #33
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    MSN, Nick I am not really up on this stuff really (too long in the tooth :-( to really be bothered). that reads rude but that is not my intention sorry.

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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Hey Chippie, the proper process for a job like this is to take a template of the cutout using MDF sheet or joggle sticks and a glue gun, transfer the template info to the lino and make the cutout. Then lay the lino , which is where you discover the hole is on the other side of the room and you get to say " there. happy now?"
    Hey, it happens John!

    [QUOTE=Michael D. Storey;4950103]Spanner in the works. Here in the States we have John Lennon to thank for understanding what that means. His book, Spaniard in the Works. Here we just throw a monkey wrench at it. BTW turn off the water, then flush. Makes the toilet a lot easier to lift.[/QUOTE]

    I don't even do that Michael.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    I agree with you there, Chippie, a carpeted bathroom make about as much sense as a carpeted boat.
    A good comparison Jim.

    Kitchens come a close second mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Empty the cistern of water, disconnect the pot and slide it out of the door.
    Fit the lino, slide it back and reconnect.
    I emphasise again Nick, no need to interfere with the fixings other than to remove the holding down screws.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Just asking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chippie View Post



    I emphasise again Nick, no need to interfere with the fixings other than to remove the holding down screws.
    A big screw eye in a ceiling joist directly above the pan? Strops and a tackle.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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