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Thread: Alden 21' Indian Classic

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
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    Kotka, Kymenlaakso, Finland
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    Default Alden 21' Indian Classic

    I ordered plans for the Indian Classic and yesterday I cleared them online at customs so they should arrive any day soon. This is my first build and first attempt at anything remotely like this. Fortunately or unfortunately (time will tell) I had rented office space at the Finnish Wooden Boat Centre in Kotka. I'm a graphic design and have been since the mid 1980's when Steve Jobs was still wondering what 'typography' meant. In recent years (10-15) with the destruction of nearly every analog piece of equipment used in my profession and the total digital domination of computers. I feel I have lost a profession and a hand craft skill I was so proud of when I finished my Studies at Stafford College of Art&Design. I enjoy working with my hands but unfortunately I don't class computers as a tool. So I'm having a 50's crisis of sorts. Every day I walk through the workshops of Red Sky Craft here and talk to the boat builders. The smell of fresh wood shavings on the floor and the shiny services of recently varnished mahogany has got me to thinking I need to change my tools. The owner of Red Sky has mentored me along pointing out the 21' Indian would be a boat worth making. I'm planning to enrol in January at the local boat building class and use this as a boat to build during the apprenticeship/schooling that will take some 18 months (if there's enough people enrolling). I've been given some books to read and the one I'm staring at, at the moment is Lofting by Allan H. Vaitses (a WoodenBoat Book). I can't wait until January so I will try and loft this ready during the latter half of this summer. Depending how it goes I'll probably make a start on the moulds. I have a scary idea if this goes well I'll not stop there... early days yet.

    I've done quite a bit of looking on the inter rail and I've found a couple (two) flickr pages where one was a rebuild and the other was a build. It's a nice looking boat and I hope to document it as I have had a lifetime sitting in front of Apple Macintosh computers. So if anyone has any advice on lofting, or maybe I can meet some people who have built the Indian Classic, sailed it etc. I'd welcome the constructive advice as I start this project. I apologise in advance for any primitive question or posts I might add to this forum as I'm a complete novice. Having said that I do have some background in technical drawing (not meaning CAD, rather pencil and paper and an adjustable draft mans table) also I own a 9m wooden boat called 'Merisontti' and mid engine put put boat of the Meriläinen design common around the waters here in Finland where I'm currently living.

    It'll probably be a while before I post anything build related as I'm in the gathering and learning stage BUT if anyone wants to give some pointers as I start the process then I'll be frequenting the forum and reading as much as possible.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    S.E.Florida
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    619

    Default Re: Alden 21' Indian Classic

    Welcome to the forum.

    Lots of knowledgeable helpful folk here; if you have a question, be as specific as possible to get the answer most relevant to your needs.

    We love build threads with lots of photos, and photos are useful when asking questions too.

    Your photos must be on an image-hosting site. Thorne's new-and-improved how-to-post-photos™.

    Should you wish to search the forum site for posts or threads about something in particular, do this in your browser search window:

    "Alden 21 Indian" site:http://forum.woodenboat.com/

    N.B. No [space] between 'site:' and 'http://forum.woodenboat.com/'
    The more words in your search phrase, the fewer, but more relevant, hits you'll get.
    Use the quotes around multi-word search phrases to reduce irrelevant hits on individual words in the phrase.

    Here are a couple of good books you may like:



    _Boatbuilding_ by Howard Chapelle
    The bible of traditional wooden boat building. It describes the process in detail, emphasizing carvel construction, but lapstrake, strip-planking, and other methods are also discussed. Hundreds of topics are covered, including how to read boat plans, lofting, deck and interior joinerwork, sparmaking, engine installation, steam-bending, specialized tools, fastenings, etc..


    _How_To_Build_A_Wooden_Boat_ by Bud McIntosh
    Here is everything you need to know to construct a carvel planked cruising boat, with no more than a set of plans, a stack of lumber, and a determination. You'll be hard-pressed to find a book which does a better job of telling you how to go about the process. Bud McIntosh had a gift for explaining as well as building and designing. Combine Bud's text with the elegant yet clean drawings of Sam Manning, and you have a classic text, in print for over 25 years.

    .
    .
    .

    "...to return to the timeless world of the mountains, the sea, the forest, and the stars is to return to sanity and truth."

    ---Robert Burnham, Jr., "Burnham's Celestial Handbook"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Kotka, Kymenlaakso, Finland
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    6

    Default Re: Alden 21' Indian Classic

    Thanks sharpie fan for the information and book references. Actually I have in front of me the "How to build a wooden boat" by David C. "Bud" McIntosh. Not sure what edition it is as mine has a red cover. Just started to read it. So far so good. Also funny at times. Thanks for the search help. I did earlier reform as search but I didn't seem to get the results I was looking for. I'll try this method now.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cummington
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    5,206

    Default Re: Alden 21' Indian Classic

    There have been a few recent Indian builds, one was extensively written up on the Forum. Gardner/Manning's The Dory Book would be a better guide to building the Indian than Bud's book (lapstrake dory instead of carvel yacht) though it's all related. Great boat, the Indian.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Kotka, Kymenlaakso, Finland
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Alden 21' Indian Classic

    Thanks Thad I'll try and find the builds postings, haven't been able to locate much yet. I'll look into the book thing. As far as I'd got I understand the Wooden Boat book does have quite a different and large keel sailing boat.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cummington
    Posts
    5,206

    Default Re: Alden 21' Indian Classic

    Here: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ghlight=Indian I think this is glued plywood, but he did put the gaff rig in it. The other one wasn't on the forum, I do have pictures of it sailing I could email. There's this thread too: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ghlight=Indian
    Last edited by Thad; 06-19-2016 at 06:22 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Kotka, Kymenlaakso, Finland
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    6

    Default Re: Alden 21' Indian Classic

    Hi Thad, thanks for the forum links. Getting excited. Hope the plans turn up soon. All the fuss about ordering outside the EU only to pay 8.36€ in custom fees.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Kotka, Kymenlaakso, Finland
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    6

    Default Re: Alden 21' Indian Classic

    OK. SO it's been a while since I last visited this thread. So here's the update. I was accepted to the Boat Building Academy here in Hamina Finland. I'm expecting a little resistance on the type of boat build allowed as it's been suggested I make the school designed rowing boat but this doesn't appeal to me in the least. Especially after my colleague built his Herreshoff 'Lili' at hte same school and is now up for Classic Boat Award 2017 "Traditional New Build" (http://www.classicboat.co.uk/awards2017/) see Lili.

    So having Jari as my target I'm determined to build a classic and the owner at RedSky Craft here in Kotka (Allan Savolainen) suggested the Alden Indian Classic also referred to as NANTUCKET INDIAN.
    Well I have the plans and I've landed myself a place at the Boat Building School. I also have plans to start a vlog on YouTube and as soon as I spread out the Indian plans and start cutting the moulds are start the channel.

    I just contacted the Nantucket Yacht Club as was suggested in another thread here on the forum. Requesting photos of and Indian Lapstrake Classic there and also if they could forward my email/request to members owning such a craft for possible help during the build for details of hardware and rigging.

    I'm a complete novice and have no experience sailing, but have read this is a good and stable boat to learn with.
    I'm 50 years young and I've spent 30 years as an Art Director and Graphic Designer. Having studied at Art School in the mid 1980's using only Rotaring Rapidograph pens, French curves, scalpels, gouache paints and airbrushes. When I left school I had a craft and since the revolution of Apple computers and Adobe Creative Cloud I feel the need to reagin a craft and build something you can touch, feel and experience. I want to leave my children a classic boat and memories of sailing her together. The desing industry today simply creates digital media that will be eroded by time and incompatibility and simply disappear.

    This is my update and brief look into what's planned for 2017-2018.

    I really hope I can get some reference and help from others regarding this project.
    The books suggested earlier I have acquired from the library.
    So here we go.

    Paul

  9. #9
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    Jun 2016
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    Kotka, Kymenlaakso, Finland
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    6

    Default Re: Alden 21' Indian Classic

    Just a brief update as I sit in the class referencing pattern form joinery etc. I managed to get the plans for the Indian Classic approved and among other things I've been lofting to boat; lofting the complete boat from bow to stern and way more than needed but as a lofting exercise and practice finding that fare line and coaxing 4m long 1/4 inch strips into perfect curves. Now comes the planning part in which material to use as some of these planks are 14-15" at there widest part. So if I use wood and not ply then I need some kind of sapele/mahogany planking as this is the only wood (to my knowledge that is wide enough) yes there's iroko BUT having used it for the school sea chest/tool box project I've found it splits and bends like you wouldn't believe resulting in a lot of frustration and discarded unusable waste. One theory is to use marine ply for the first two planks up to the water line (painted) and then mahogany for the planking above the water line varnished... there's mixed feelings here in Finland with some people saying mahogany deteriorates quickly if exposed to water damage and frost. Something Finland has more than 6 months of the year. I'd hate to build a boat which can't be sailed hard and shorten the sailing season due to some sensitive wood choice.

    Any pointers would be really appreciated as here the attitude is "get on with it on your own" and we'll comment after it's built "did you do it right or wrong"

    Paul

  10. #10
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    May 2000
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    Cummington
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    Default Re: Alden 21' Indian Classic

    Typically, the Indian would have been built of cedar, Eastern White Cedar or Atlantic White cedar, with a white pine bottom board. The garboard is the widest plank and like the bottom board can be built up, the bottom board likely cleated and caulked or glued, the garboard "dory lapped" (45degree matching bevels, riveted. Softwood preferred. The heavy hardwoods might be good for the bottom board but you should try to use lighter softwoods for the planks.

  11. #11
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    Jan 2010
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    Sweden,Scilly Isles, Siberia
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    Default Re: Alden 21' Indian Classic

    My sailing season has been much extended by the use of plywood. My oak, larch and mahogany boats have to come out of the water and reasonably dry before the freezing weather.
    I was once tempted by an Indian build, until i realised just how heavy the boat actually is, too much for me as a dayboat, but what a looker! A decked Mower Dory would have been better for my needs.
    Personally i would go composite, glassed ply on the bottom, with pine/larch or mahogany above. Should be able to find some excellent slow grown softwood up there.

  12. #12
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    Apr 1999
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    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
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    Default Re: Alden 21' Indian Classic

    "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

    -Mark Twain

  13. #13
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    Apr 1999
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    Default Re: Alden 21' Indian Classic

    Vendia plywood would make for an impressive look if you were to finish the hull bright (varnished): http://www.vendia.fi/products
    "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

    -Mark Twain

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