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Thread: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Indeed, great photos, Barry.
    Steve Martinsen

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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Here are a couple of boxsterns and skiffs.








    My first boat looked like this. I was 6 years old when I got it and very proud of it.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    I like seeing them all.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by waltwood View Post



    My first boat looked like this. I was 6 years old when I got it and very proud of it.

    That gets a thumbs up, for sure.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeInHand View Post
    Just came across this thread, and just happened to have posted some photos that fit the bill.

    http://www.eyeinhand.com/2016/07/03/...ke-float-2016/




    And a Chesapeake skiff, the personal workhorse. The water inside is from an insanely hard rain that morning:





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  6. #41
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    so much fun!
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    I was on Deal Island a couple of years ago for an annual sailing trip with some of us forumites. There's a write up and other photos here:

    http://www.eyeinhand.com/2014/05/25/...t-deal-island/

    Here are a couple of the photos. Several old skipjacks, apparently still working, were nestled in among a bunch of deadrises. This one modified with a sort of deckhouse.






















    And this one off in the distance. Unfortunately, I couldn't get close for a better look.


  8. #43
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Some better shots. This one in the Miles River off St. Michaels.











    Last edited by EyeInHand; 07-06-2016 at 03:04 PM.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by SMARTINSEN View Post

    Here is a modern replica of a very old Chesapeake Bay work boat. This is the shallop that John Smith used to explore the Cheaspeake Bay way back in the early 1600's. Built by John Swain in Chestertown for the CBMM.



    _________________
    Interesting story about those logs she's tied up next to, they are waiting to be used in the restoration of the log built hull of the Edna Lockwood. More info here:

    http://www.ednalockwood.org

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    The Workboats of Smith Island was mentioned as a good reference. It is, and another recent book Larry Chowning is also quite good, and very readable. Deadrise and Cross-Planked.
    https://www.amazon.com/Deadrise-Cros.../dp/087033588X

    Nice pics Barry.

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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by FSS172 View Post
    Interesting story about those logs she's tied up next to, they are waiting to be used in the restoration of the log built hull of the Edna Lockwood. More info here:

    http://www.ednalockwood.org
    They were setting up the woodmizer last Saturday when I took the photo, looks
    like they are getting ready to go, Edna probably deserves her own thread.
    Steve Martinsen

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Steve Martinsen

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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    I like to check this website occasionally. http://www.deadrise4sale.com Here's a sampling of the offerings. (I have no connection to the website).





    Chuck Thompson

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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    My wife and I took a 70 mile boat trip yesterday afternoon to Crisfield,Md. and then to Ewell on Smith Island. Smith Island was very serene except for the greenheads. We were going to eat dinner there and head home but both restaurants were closed.

    These pictures are of crab scrapes. They are low freeboard shallow water deadrises. I know most of you saw the build of one on this Forum. These are working ones and really the last of an era because watermen don't use them anymore, they peeler pot instead. The other picture is of Ewell as seen by water when we were leaving. I visit these islands often and I am still amazed people live here.









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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay


  16. #51
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    This is a workboat of a different kind. She's been through many jobs, from aristocrats toy, to a stint serving the Navy during WWII when she wore a dress of pure grey head to toe, and "tender" to several Presidential yachts. After that, she was pressed into service of an old hotel on the water in the Middle Bay, doing cruises for the swells for a couple of decades. Now she's a bit down on her luck in a former gambling town on the Potomac, and for sale again.













    http://www.eyeinhand.com/2016/07/17/...hannock-river/

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    The work boats you show, many of them crabbers I think, working trot lines, look to have sharpie hulls. Anyone here have any more info about this? Did the watermen use sailing sharpies before engines became available?

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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Beautiful boats and beautiful waters!

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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by ahp View Post
    The work boats you show, many of them crabbers I think, working trot lines, look to have sharpie hulls. Anyone here have any more info about this? Did the watermen use sailing sharpies before engines became available?

    Here's a Chesapeake sharpie that was last run under power. I strongly suspect it started life under sail. Chapelle addresses your question, as I recall, stating that indeed sharpies were in wide use up and down the Chesapeake before the evolution of boats more specific to the bay and commercial needs.

    -Dave

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    The larger boats I showed in Post #39 set crab pots or traps which are made of a tight mesh wire that looks like chicken wire and measure 24" x 24"x 20". The pots are set in 3 to 30 feet of water and are checked every day except Sunday. You can pull up, move, or change pots on Sundays but you can not bring any crabs into the dock. There is a maximum number of pots you can have and it is around 400. You can only get a license if you buy it from someone else. They are not issuing new ones. This is all Virginia, I don't know anything about MD crabbing laws.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Came across another one today. Coffee on the stern deck, in the fog in Fogg's Landing. I believe this is the deadrise Volunteer, the all around workhorse of the Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum in St. Michaels, Maryland.



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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    What a beautiful thread. Thanks to Waltwood, Barry, and all the rest who contributed to making it what it is.

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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    One boat missing from the pictures is a Hooper Island Duck Tail Sharpie. Staint Michael's Maritime Museum has pictures of one. Doug Edwards had one at Lankford Bay Marinia years ago.

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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Some beautiful boats, thanks for posting them folks, Very nice thread going here.

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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Interesting, these boats were all deadrises, V bottom boats. I'd be interested to see the hard evidence for the flat bottom sharpie hull on the Chesapeake. As I recall they did get imported into North Carolina, direct imports from Connecticut. I thought the Hooper's Islanders were called drake tails. That 'torpedo' stern appears to have been copied from naval and speed boat experiments and also shows up on some early Maine powered lobster boats. PANHARD I, the 1904 racing launch, in the Mystic Seaport collection is a good example of what the watermen and the lobstermen were copying.
    Ben Fuller
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  26. #61
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Drake tails, duck tails its all the samething. The Museum calls them dovetails.

    I believe some of the bugeyes were actually sharpies. There are very few original bugeyes around. Bugeyes are an outgrowth from sailing log canoes, however the few boats surviving back in the early 80' were plank built.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Bugeye => Log Canoe
    Thanks to all for starting/continuing this fine thread.
    How about the beautiful yellow pine in the dead rise pictured in post #34.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugeye

    Bugeye Origins:
    Between 1820 and 1865, the state of Maryland banned the practice of dredging for oysters. In the latter year, the law was relaxed; the use of steam power remained banned, however, and remained entirely prohibited until 1965, in which year powered dredging was allowed two days of the week. As long as dredging for oysters in the Chesapeake was prohibited, oystermen working from log canoes tonged for oysters. In 1854 the Maryland legislature permitted the use of dredges in the waters of Somerset County, Maryland, expanding the use of dredges to the rest of the Bay following the Civil War. Opening the Chesapeake to oyster dredging after the Civil War created a need for larger, more powerful boats to haul dredges across the oyster beds.

    The first vessels used were the existing sloops, pungys and schooners on the Bay, but none of these types was well suited to the purpose; pungys and schooners were too deep in their draft to work the shallower waters of the Bay, the schooners and sloops had bulwarks too high to facilitate handling the dredges, the relatively complex rigs of all three types required uneconomically large crews of skilled sailors, and the vessels themselves were relatively expensive to build and maintain.

    The log canoes had none of these disadvantages, but were too small to successfully haul dredges. The result was the development during the 1870s and 1880s of the brogan, an enlarged log canoe. In [1][2] brogans, the open hull of the log canoe was decked, with hatches covering holds created by subdividing the hull with bulkheads. Brogans typically used the same sail plan as the log canoes of the Tilghman Island region, a leg-of-mutton (i.e., triangular) foresail, mainsail and jib, with the foremast taller than the main. Both masts raked rather sharply aft, with the mainmast raked significantly more sharply than the foremast.1

    Brogans were still too small to effectively haul dredges, and continued to be enlarged and improved. By the early 1880s, or possibly even earlier, the first bugeyes were being built.2 Over the next twenty years, the bugeye became the dominant type of vessel employed in oystering, but by 1893 construction of new bugeyes began to decline with the introduction of the skipjack, which was less expensive to build, operate and maintain yet was very well suited to dredging for oysters. No working bugeyes appear to have been built after 1918, but bugeyes continued to be employed in oystering and freighting until the middle of the Twentieth Century, albeit in ever-decreasing numbers.3

    The origin of the name is obscure

    *****************************************

    Photo linked to from Post #34 ( eyeinhand dot com/Marginalia )
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  28. #63
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Here is why I say they were built like sharpies.

    Bugeye construction: "The*hull*was beamy and shallow, with no*chine. Initially it was chunked from logs, in the manner of the log canoe; eventually conventional framed construction was introduced as the supply of suitable trees was depleted. The usual form was double-ended, with a sharp stern, and most such boats had a heavy beam called the "duck tail" projecting a short distance from the stern in order to protect the rudder. To increase deck space a "patent stern" was installed after 1893; it consisted of a set of three beams: one across the duck tail, and two joining its ends to either side of the boat. The ostensible purpose, according to the patent in question, was to provide a mounting spot for*davits*for a*dinghy; the whole area, however, could be planked over to provide a considerable increase in deck space. All log bugeyes were sharp-sterned, but some frame versions had round sterns; a very few had a square*transom. The*freeboard*was invariably low, the better to lift the dredges onto the deck.

    Due to the wide, flat bottom, a*centerboard*was provided."

    Not included in Wikipedia is that when they started building them with plank lumber they received a chine with their fllat bottoms.

    For a few years around 1985 a fellow kept a old Bugeye tried up at the city dock in Annapolis. It was somewhere around 40' lod. He had a sign displayed with the origins of his boat, but I don't remember a word of it.

    Responding further to your question of sharpie s on the Chesapeake. As can be seen in the historical context posted, waterman on the Chesapeake moved away from flat bottomed boats early on in favor of Vee bottomed craft. The steep chop on the Chesapeake made for a lot of pounding for sharpies.
    Last edited by navydog; 01-05-2018 at 06:56 AM.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    I never ran into a bugeye that was flatbottomed and cross planked which are the distinguishing characteristics of a sharpie. When they went to planked hulls, they kept their hull shape as far as I know and were fore and aft planked.

    The interesting relationship of sharpies to logs has to do with the big single log white pine dugout canoes used in the Ct oystering industry. When these wore out they got cross planked. See Kochiss's book on Oystering and the 1884 Henry Hall shipbuilding report. The Hall report is interesting because of what isn't reported on, types that we think might be old but in fact were not around in 1880 and came along in the next 20 years. For example while there is plenty on Chesapeake log built boats there is nothing on deadrises, no skipjacks etc. nothing really on V bottom cross planked boats.

    I've found construction method to be more useful generally than form in distinguishing boat types. While the New Haven folks were developing cross planked construction, the Chesapeake folks still had the timber to build log canoes, brogans and bugeyes.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
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  30. #65
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post

    I've found construction method to be more useful generally than form in distinguishing boat types. While the New Haven folks were developing cross planked construction, the Chesapeake folks still had the timber to build log canoes, brogans and bugeyes.
    I guess I would disagree wth you're last comment. Form dictates construction materials and methods. Not all carvel planked boats with steam bent ribs have the same hull shape and each type is a different design using the same methodology. A fore and aft planked boat using sharpie lines is still a sharpie no different than building one from plywood.

    One could say all Bugeyes were built with logs and when they switched to lumber they became a different type boat. At this point I think it's pretty much splitting hairs.

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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    My first attempt at uploading a photo. I'll let you guys debate the names - I'm just gonna look at MARY LOU and drink my coffee.


    MARY LOU.jpg

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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    I guess I would disagree wth you're last comment. Form dictates construction materials and methods. Not all carvel planked boats with steam bent ribs have the same hull shape and each type is a different design using the same methodology. A fore and aft planked boat using sharpie lines is still a sharpie no different than building one from plywood.

    One could say all Bugeyes were built with logs and when they switched to lumber they became a different type boat. At this point I think it's pretty much splitting hairs.
    Not a matter of agreement just historical data and the sources. What we do now is different. We call small round bottom row boats with plumb stem and wine glass sterns Whitehalls when they are built very differently from real Whitehalls. We don't have the words, and we have a completely different bunch of materials. Sharpies as originated were flat bottom and cross planked some times with a chine but more often without one. Fore and aft techniques were not part of the mix and indeed are not part of the Chesapeake deadrise mix. Once these became interesting to pleasure boat designers things changed. So you get Snipes, Comets, Stars and Lightings all fore and aft planked V hulls with frames completely different from the Chesapeake deadrise tradition. I look at what the artisanal builders called them. But I'm just a historian.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by BKay View Post
    My first attempt at uploading a photo. I'll let you guys debate the names - I'm just gonna look at MARY LOU and drink my coffee.


    MARY LOU.jpg
    Same stern but length and beam ratios and construction method and indeed deckhouse pretty different from the Jonesport torpedo/ drake tail boats we had up here. What is most interesting to me is how the shape which came from the need for speed in raceboats and naval craft got picked up by local builders in the days before internet. I do have evidence that some of the local Maine builders were readers of Motorboating et al all of which got started about 1907. When I was down in the Chesapeake there were still some V stern deadrises and power log canoes to which squat boards had been fitted. All of these attempts at increasing speed with relatively low powered heavy engines. Once more power became available the problem of squatting became evident.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    Not a matter of agreement just historical data and the sources. What we do now is different. We call small round bottom row boats with plumb stem and wine glass sterns Whitehalls when they are built very differently from real Whitehalls. We don't have the words, and we have a completely different bunch of materials. Sharpies as originated were flat bottom and cross planked some times with a chine but more often without one. Fore and aft techniques were not part of the mix and indeed are not part of the Chesapeake deadrise mix. Once these became interesting to pleasure boat designers things changed. So you get Snipes, Comets, Stars and Lightings all fore and aft planked V hulls with frames completely different from the Chesapeake deadrise tradition. I look at what the artisanal builders called them. But I'm just a historian.
    Ben,
    I think you missed my original point that Sharpies as they became known today didn't develop in any substantial way on the Chesapeake because they moved away from flat bottom boats, Bugeyes and went to Vee bottom designs.

    As far as boat construction methods relate to type it would require cataloging every builder if deviations in construction technique were to be used as the basis of design classification. Things change from builder to builder. Technological advances made changes in available materials and consequently construction design changes. A sharpie made today of plywood, covered in epoxy and fabric is still a sharpie. An Egret designed by Munroe or Parker is still an Egert. I understand your dedication to historical accuracy, I'm just not of the same mind set that changing the construction technique transforms the design into completely a new type.

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    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Ben,
    I think you missed my original point that Sharpies as they became known today didn't develop in any substantial way on the Chesapeake because they moved away from flat bottom boats, Bugeyes and went to Vee bottom designs.

    As far as boat construction methods relate to type it would require cataloging every builder if deviations in construction technique were to be used as the basis of design classification. Things change from builder to builder. Technological advances made changes in available materials and consequently construction design changes. A sharpie made today of plywood, covered in epoxy and fabric is still a sharpie. An Egret designed by Munroe or Parker is still an Egert. I understand your dedication to historical accuracy, I'm just not of the same mind set that changing the construction technique transforms the design into completely a new type.
    Regional building is actually pretty easy. Fore and aft flat bottom hulls in New England AKA dories, dory skiffs, flat bottom round sided hulls in a band from New Jersey to Maine ( Seabright skiffs, wherrys, Seaford skiffs etc.) And the flatkeel sawn frame dory types know as Adirondack guideboats. The Canadian/ British double ended boat traditions which slid into New York state and into Maine. The preshaped frame Whitehall style in the cities that became bent frame boats once steam bending on a jig became popular so that the whitehall shape became the standard in livery boats. The sprung keel small boats of the Jersey shore and Delaware bay ( sneakboxes, duckers, tuckups) . The The cross planked hulls of sharpies and skiffs which seem to have developed on Long Island sound. Strip built round hulls that came out of Mass Bay and ran up the coast. The V hulls of the Chesapeake with only one area on the Potomac doing fore and aft V hulls ( the Potomac River Dory boat.)

    Henry Hall's 1884 publications Report on the Shipbuilding Industry of the United States (https://books.google.com/books/about...d=oOwOAAAAYAAJ) is a good place to start to see regional variation before print started spreading regional styles. Forest and Stream starting in the 1880s was the first US vehicle for this.

    I guess I had never thought to consider a sharpie together with a bugeye. The bugeyes and brograns that I knew were had round bottom hull shapes while sharpies whether working or pleasure like the designs of Munroe and Clapham had dead flat bottoms. Length to beam ratio were also very different with bugeyes pretty fat compared to oyster sharpies. The real interesting question is the post 1900 introduction of cross planked V bottom hulls large and small to the Chesapeake. Independent invention, something that was transmitted in the recreation publications of the time? And the prevalence of the 3 sided sail. There were connections in the oyster industry with Staten Island skiffs aka Yankee skiffs imported for tonging. It is also interesting to see that the Chesapeake was a good decade behind in adopting gasoline engines to the fishery which you can see in the census data.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

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