Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst ... 23
Results 71 to 93 of 93

Thread: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

  1. #71
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Cushing, Maine
    Posts
    3,334

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Ben,
    I think you missed my original point that Sharpies as they became known today didn't develop in any substantial way on the Chesapeake because they moved away from flat bottom boats, Bugeyes and went to Vee bottom designs.

    As far as boat construction methods relate to type it would require cataloging every builder if deviations in construction technique were to be used as the basis of design classification. Things change from builder to builder. Technological advances made changes in available materials and consequently construction design changes. A sharpie made today of plywood, covered in epoxy and fabric is still a sharpie. An Egret designed by Munroe or Parker is still an Egert. I understand your dedication to historical accuracy, I'm just not of the same mind set that changing the construction technique transforms the design into completely a new type.
    Regional building is actually pretty easy. Fore and aft flat bottom hulls in New England AKA dories, dory skiffs, flat bottom round sided hulls in a band from New Jersey to Maine ( Seabright skiffs, wherrys, Seaford skiffs etc.) And the flatkeel sawn frame dory types know as Adirondack guideboats. The Canadian/ British double ended boat traditions which slid into New York state and into Maine. The preshaped frame Whitehall style in the cities that became bent frame boats once steam bending on a jig became popular so that the whitehall shape became the standard in livery boats. The sprung keel small boats of the Jersey shore and Delaware bay ( sneakboxes, duckers, tuckups) . The The cross planked hulls of sharpies and skiffs which seem to have developed on Long Island sound. Strip built round hulls that came out of Mass Bay and ran up the coast. The V hulls of the Chesapeake with only one area on the Potomac doing fore and aft V hulls ( the Potomac River Dory boat.)

    Henry Hall's 1884 publications Report on the Shipbuilding Industry of the United States (https://books.google.com/books/about...d=oOwOAAAAYAAJ) is a good place to start to see regional variation before print started spreading regional styles. Forest and Stream starting in the 1880s was the first US vehicle for this.

    I guess I had never thought to consider a sharpie together with a bugeye. The bugeyes and brograns that I knew were had round bottom hull shapes while sharpies whether working or pleasure like the designs of Munroe and Clapham had dead flat bottoms. Length to beam ratio were also very different with bugeyes pretty fat compared to oyster sharpies. The real interesting question is the post 1900 introduction of cross planked V bottom hulls large and small to the Chesapeake. Independent invention, something that was transmitted in the recreation publications of the time? And the prevalence of the 3 sided sail. There were connections in the oyster industry with Staten Island skiffs aka Yankee skiffs imported for tonging. It is also interesting to see that the Chesapeake was a good decade behind in adopting gasoline engines to the fishery which you can see in the census data.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    761

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    "It is also interesting to see that the Chesapeake was a good decade behind in adopting gasoline engines to the fishery which you can see in the census data."

    I can't explain what happened on the western side of the bay. However the Eastern Shore was about 50 years behind the rest of the nation developmentally. Construction of the bay bridge had a dramatic effect on the Eastern Shore population. It wouldn't surprise me if back in 1900 that technology would be delayed.

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    761

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    This paper pulls together many of the questions and comments found in this thread. It makes for interesting reading.

    The Migration of the Sharpie:


    Environmental, Economic, and Archaeological Aspects


    By: Lauren A. Rotsted
    February, 2015

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...WDzuUEOuI5-SWw

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Cushing, Maine
    Posts
    3,334

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Interesting paper but there are flaws that the advisor should have caught. Thanks for finding it.

    No reference at all to Hall's Shipbuilding which is difficult to believe.

    Mystic has two examples of oystering dugouts which were missed and speak strongly to the flatbottom cross planked construction importance. Also some examples of what were called sharpie skiffs in RI skiff whose sides are vertical enough to be able to take cross plank nails as opposed to flat irons which mostly needed a chine as a nailer.

    Kunhardt and Clapham were early Forest and Stream writers and proponents of pleasure boating. The idea of the V bottom may hve originated there; and it is interesting to think of this as a vector for the V bottom or deadrise hull concept to get into the Chesapeake. Certainly the boats that the writer cites are pleasure craft not work boats.

    The log buiit boat have nothing to do with sharpies ( the canoes predate them and do have a similar LB ratio) brograns and bugeyes are totally different animals. Built different , different LB ratio. They do share the triangular sail shapes.

    The North Carolina sharpies have a clear vector from New Haven and retained their flat bottom. See Chapelle's Migration. I think the Great Lakes boats do as well but I don't know that story.

    The whole steam thing should have dropped as totally irrelevant. For boats ( not vessels,,,, another thing the advisor should have caught) steam engines were rarely used, almost only in naval and pleasure launches as they were expensive and took up too much room. The boat fishery (undocumented 5 tons and under and inshore sail) did not convert to power until gasoline.

    Missed completely and much more important is the importance of the internal combustion engine.

    Some sources like Sucher are not to be relied on for history, as he does not provide data. And Chapelle needs to be read carefully. For any non primary sources one always needs to ask how do they know that?
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Onancock, VA
    Posts
    952

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    My son is putting a roof on for a friend of his that is a waterman on the ocean side of Virginia's Eastern Shore. He has this 40' round stern deadrise sitting in his yard and I knew I had to post pictures of it. It was built in 1950 in Deltaville. What was most significant to me is that I owned one exactly like it in 1981 that was the same year and also built in Deltaville. For those of you not familiar with the Bay boats, the round stern made it more sea kindly in a following sea while pulling crab pots. This worked but the men wanted to go faster and carry more weight and fish more pots. The beam grew to about 15' and a box stern, as they call it, was needed to make them plane good.









  6. #76
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    palm coast florida usa
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    man if she could talk ...

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,029

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    It's been my impression that those Chesapeake Bay boats just won't sink. Saw this one in Rock Hall a while back.


    IMG_20161021_124612933.jpg
    -Dave

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    N.E. Connecticut.
    Posts
    5,827

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Good looking boats, even when they have been unattended.

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Onancock, VA
    Posts
    952

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    It's been my impression that those Chesapeake Bay boats just won't sink. Saw this one in Rock Hall a while back.


    IMG_20161021_124612933.jpg
    That one has seen better days!

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Annapolis, MD, USA
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Another variant is the deadrise charter fishing boat. They usually featured a canopy over the cockpit to provide the sports some shade and the cabin was lengthened up front to accomodate a couple of bunks. The example shown here was launched in '43 and worked the charter trade for six or seven years before her captain got a desk job and kept the boat for his own fishing and cruising. I'm told the style used to be common, but it clearly went out of favor when fiberglass came along. In the 19 years we've owned her, I've seen about a half-dozen other examples around the northern Chesapeake.

    Lady Anne Jamaica Point.JPG

  11. #81
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    N.E. Connecticut.
    Posts
    5,827

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Very pretty. What does she have for power?

  12. #82
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Annapolis, MD, USA
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    The present engine is a Crusader - basically a marinized GM 350. When we got the boat she had a Chrysler V8 which, on a good day, thought it was a V6. An earlier owner told me the original was a Plymouth straight-eight.

  13. #83
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    761

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    It's been my impression that those Chesapeake Bay boats just won't sink. Saw this one in Rock Hall a while back.


    IMG_20161021_124612933.jpg
    Obviously someone is keeping this pumped out. Reminds me of a boat owned by a guy nick named Hard Crab 27 years ago when I lived there.
    Last edited by navydog; 07-11-2018 at 08:50 AM.

  14. #84
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    N.E. Connecticut.
    Posts
    5,827

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenier View Post
    The present engine is a Crusader - basically a marinized GM 350. When we got the boat she had a Chrysler V8 which, on a good day, thought it was a V6. An earlier owner told me the original was a Plymouth straight-eight.
    Very nice, ...and simple. That probably moves her pretty well.

  15. #85
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Onancock, VA
    Posts
    952

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Chenier View Post
    Another variant is the deadrise charter fishing boat. They usually featured a canopy over the cockpit to provide the sports some shade and the cabin was lengthened up front to accomodate a couple of bunks. The example shown here was launched in '43 and worked the charter trade for six or seven years before her captain got a desk job and kept the boat for his own fishing and cruising. I'm told the style used to be common, but it clearly went out of favor when fiberglass came along. In the 19 years we've owned her, I've seen about a half-dozen other examples around the northern Chesapeake.

    Lady Anne Jamaica Point.JPG
    What a beauty! I have not seen one like this.

  16. #86
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    spicewood, texas, usa
    Posts
    214

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    chenier, that sure is a nice looking boat. do you have anymore pics of her-interior etc.?

    jim

  17. #87
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Annapolis, MD, USA
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Here's a pic of the cockpit. Sorry about the flag - the wind kept twisting it up.

    IMG_4612.jpg

    Other pics I have of the interior are embedded in the periodic surveys but I haven't extracted them yet.

    Here's a photo of the boat in her original colors as the Candace Jane. The owner before us decided all that redwood on the cabin sides was too much upkeep.

    Candace Jane 1988 Side.jpg

  18. #88
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Downingtown Pa (S/V Andantino down in Rock Hall, Md)
    Posts
    2,626

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Love the buyboats... there are two at my dock in Rock Hall.

    One of my goals in life is to build a smith island crab life just like the one in the Chesapeake bay Maritime Museum.
    There is a joy in madness, that only mad men know. -Nieztsche

  19. #89
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Downingtown Pa (S/V Andantino down in Rock Hall, Md)
    Posts
    2,626

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    I was sailing through Knapps Narrows a few weeks ago. wish I took pictures of the remains of two buyboats on the south side of the narrows.
    There is a joy in madness, that only mad men know. -Nieztsche

  20. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Downingtown Pa (S/V Andantino down in Rock Hall, Md)
    Posts
    2,626

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    It's been my impression that those Chesapeake Bay boats just won't sink. Saw this one in Rock Hall a while back.


    IMG_20161021_124612933.jpg
    That boat actually has sunk several times. I have informed my wife that if someone finds the title, I'm gonna pull it around to the boat ramp at high tide and traile it home to my shop to rebuild...
    There is a joy in madness, that only mad men know. -Nieztsche

  21. #91
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    761

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Now that's crazy talk. Build a new boat, if you fix that you would build a new boat plus dispose of an old one.

  22. #92
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    761

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Surprisingly there are quite a large number of buy boats still afloat, maybe more of them then the party boat type Chenier has. Although I did see one on the Middle River last week.

  23. #93
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Onancock, VA
    Posts
    952

    Default Re: Workboats Of The Chesapeake Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Now that's crazy talk. Build a new boat, if you fix that you would build a new boat plus dispose of an old one.
    I agree with him as others have said "run don't walk away from this one"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •