Kotik, Kotik, Kotik!

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  • andrewpatrol
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2010
    • 2510

    #16
    Re: Kotik, Kotik, Kotik!

    Ian, you're moving along very well, just a pointer if I may. I found it handy to be able to get under boat to clean up epoxy as I put on planks. Leave enough room for clambering over and under.

    i notice Kotik has one of those offset centreboards on your lofting. Should make construction a bit easier than going through keel.
    What is the centreboard made from? And how much ballast does she have?
    Last edited by andrewpatrol; 06-20-2016, 06:04 PM.

    Comment

    • IanMilne
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2015
      • 1074

      #17
      Re: Kotik, Kotik, Kotik!

      Thanks, Andrew. Yes, it is best to clean up the epoxy inside the planking as you go, as much as possible. The Kotik plan calls for a frame 4 ft wide but this one is 3 ft, so the side planking will extend out enough to clean up a lot of the inside without getting right inside the frame. It's a bit low at the top end because the floor slopes to match the street outside. Yes, you have to clamber around on it now and then. I will strut the wider moulds to the floor at the sides. This is the third boat I have built on this frame.

      Here's one for you, if I may. When you do the foredeck, assuming that the kingplank is concave like the afterdeck, you can do it in two pieces of plywood with a butt join down the middle, with the centre lines of each half cut slightly concave so you can push it down in the middle. It worked fine on my Eun na Mara. I also assume you will fibreglass the decks. (That's a beautiful nib-scarf you did.)

      Yes, the centreboard is offset to port. The port bunk is built onto that side of the case, and it leaves a decent walkway along the other
      side. The c/board is made from hardwood boards edge-joined with bronze rods and drifts. Very solid and traditional. It has 60lb/27kg lead in the bottom end. I am thinking of making it of plywood , but wondering if that would be strong enough to hold all that lead. No doubt Iain drew it that way for good reason. As you say, it's a chance to try another method.

      The main ballast is a big bar of lead, 5" (125mm) square x 7' (2.1m) long, 360 kg, which is double what the EM has. It's a simple rectangular shape, easier to cast than yours. I will build the mould and get it cast at a foundry. It only has 6 12mm bronze bolts to hold that weight. I expect all that powerful flexible adhesive you bed it on helps.
      Cheers, Ian
      Last edited by IanMilne; 06-21-2016, 04:52 AM. Reason: add "enough"
      Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
      Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

      “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
      Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

      Comment

      • andrewpatrol
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2010
        • 2510

        #18
        Re: Kotik, Kotik, Kotik!

        Just so I understand you Ian, if I'm looking at foredeck in plan view the ends of join would be touching and centre would be distanced apart so's you could stand a pencil in. Does it close up when you push it down? I thought for a moment that you meant a cove along inside of butt so it fills with more epoxy! Don't ask me what or why I'm thinking that.
        did you get your EM ballast done at foundry too? Just wondering if it was cost effective? Hardest thing I found about pouring my own was collecting all the wheel weights. But if another build comes up and it's not too exxy I'd think about farming it out.

        Comment

        • Rich Jones
          What boat to build next?
          • Apr 2009
          • 19643

          #19
          Re: Kotik, Kotik, Kotik!

          This should be good! Your pictures and writing style are excellent. I love your shop. Large, lots of light, complete with paintings on the walls and curtains on the windows. A class act!
          I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
          Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

          Comment

          • IanMilne
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2015
            • 1074

            #20
            Re: Kotik, Kotik, Kotik!

            Hi Andrew. You are right. The ends would be touching and the middle would have a gap, but not necessarily as wide as a pencil. What you do, is draw a centre line down the kingplank, dry-fasten one half of the deck in position with enough screws or weights around the edge to keep it down all around, and see how much the middle of the centre edge of the plywood laps over the centre line of the kingplank. Then draw a new, curved, c/l on the plywood, take it off and make a matching pair.
            After I had done mine that way, I put some filler in the joint, put a layer of lightweight f/glass over the deck for a bit of texture and painted it.
            Cheers, Ian
            Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
            Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

            “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
            Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

            Comment

            • PeterSibley
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2001
              • 70993

              #21
              Re: Kotik, Kotik, Kotik!

              Originally posted by andrewpatrol
              Just so I understand you Ian, if I'm looking at foredeck in plan view the ends of join would be touching and centre would be distanced apart so's you could stand a pencil in. Does it close up when you push it down? I thought for a moment that you meant a cove along inside of butt so it fills with more epoxy! Don't ask me what or why I'm thinking that.
              did you get your EM ballast done at foundry too? Just wondering if it was cost effective? Hardest thing I found about pouring my own was collecting all the wheel weights. But if another build comes up and it's not too exxy I'd think about farming it out.
              If you buy ingots Andrew, the hard part is done.
              '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
              Grateful Dead

              Comment

              • IanMilne
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2015
                • 1074

                #22
                Re: Kotik, Kotik, Kotik!

                Thanks for that, Rich. I enjoy your contributions too. I followed your HV13 thread before I joined the forum. Excellent job! I hope you are having a good summer with her. I met Eric at a Port Townsend WBF and bought his HV16 plans to study, but I had already started my Sooty Tern. I like Eric's designs too.
                Yes, it's a great workshop. It was built about 1947 as a taxi depot with an open front. The guys who were light engineers here for 20 years before us closed in the front with those big windows. People can look in as they walk past, which I don't mind in the daytime, but the curtains are good at night to avoid the "gold-fish bowl" feeling. The paintings are old faded ones from op-shops. I like the two Brueghel ones. We bought the place in 2002, before I retired, and it took two years to fix the house and tidy the place up.
                Cheers, Ian
                Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
                Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

                “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
                Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

                Comment

                • skaraborgcraft
                  Banned
                  • Jan 2010
                  • 12824

                  #23
                  Re: Kotik, Kotik, Kotik!

                  NIce progress Ian. Watching from afar....

                  Comment

                  • IanMilne
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2015
                    • 1074

                    #24
                    Re: Kotik, Kotik, Kotik!

                    The building jig is finished now. After assembling the moulds, I stood them up on the building frame at the station marks, with G-clamps tight enough to stop them falling over but loose enough to let them move sideways a little when tapped with a hammer on the end of the stretcher, and lined them up on the centre string-line. Then I tightened up the clamps to hold the moulds in position, and built the end profiles, which are attached rigidly to the end moulds and the ends of the building frame. A couple of the square corner offcuts from the plywood made good braces for mould 4, (which happened to coincide with parts of the frame that prevented the easy fitting of a post), with posts at the other moulds. I just put one screw at the bottom of each post into the upper parts of the rails (to allow the moulds to rock a little fore and aft), connected up the tops of the moulds at the correct spacings, so that they were all vertical, put another screw in the bottom of each post at the lower part of the rail, and installed the diagonal braces on all the moulds.

                    Lastly I gauged a line 32mm (1 ¼ in.) in from the edge of each mould to mount blocks on if I decide to make a laminated frame on any of them, and drilled holes for clamping the outer edges of the planks as I install them. I will leave the sides open at this stage so that I can stand on the rails to do the garboards and as much as possible of the keel and deadwood before the rest of the planking.

                    The plans show long plywood knees from under the side decks down the insides of the hull at a couple of the stations, but I might make laminated frames instead, with knees at the tops.

                    We are getting a cover made for Sooty Tern Trondra, so she can go and live outside. The next task is to buy a pile of timber and plywood.

                    Well, after all that, they say a picture is worth a thousand words, so here are a few thousand words....

                    Stern end.

                    Assembling the Jig (1).jpg

                    Bow end.
                    Assembling the Jig (2).jpg

                    Posts.
                    Assembling the Jig (3).jpg


                    Braces.

                    Assembling the Jig (4).jpg

                    Almost complete.
                    Assembling the Jig (5).jpg

                    Now (9 May 2021) I am told I can only have 5 photos per posting. It used to be 6.



                    Ian
                    Last edited by IanMilne; 05-08-2021, 02:00 PM. Reason: Reinstate photos.
                    Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
                    Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

                    “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
                    Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

                    Comment

                    • IanMilne
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2015
                      • 1074

                      #25
                      Re: Kotik, Kotik, Kotik!

                      12 July 2016

                      Last Tuesday the new cover was made for Trondra, so she moved outside. She is now at our “private jetty” (haha), which was made for servicing cars. It was very useful for Islesburgh. You could step straight onto the deck.

                      Anyway, since I’ve had more room to work, I have fitted blocks to moulds 2, 3, 5 and 6, to support laminated frames at those stations. (There will be bulkheads at the other stations.) Mould 5 had some unwanted curvature, which might have twisted the frames, so I have straightened and stiffened it up with some extra pieces of wood. I might be able to take some of them off again later, for standing on the rails. (MDF stays straighter.)

                      One of the local timber (lumber) and hardware suppliers has kwila (merbau) decking planks in 140mm and 90mm widths by 19mm thick, and lengths in increments of 300mm (5½”, 3½”, ¾”, 12”), so I bought some of those and cut the strips for laminating the inner and outer stems and the frames. I certainly needed a dust mask for that job! Earmuffs too. I got nine 40 x 3mm or six 60 x 3mm strips out of a 140mm plank, plus plenty of sawdust for the garden. I have three long planks for the keelson and other pieces for the floors. The tops of the planks are grooved for the decking but where two of the grooved pieces are in the same lamination I can turn them into each other and they interlock. I have also made the form for the forward stems.

                      A load of plywood is due to arrive from Christchurch tomorrow or the next day. I am almost ready to have a big glue-up, but will wait until the plywood is here so I don’t get interrupted. I will have to use some fan-heaters, as the workshop is too cold in the mornings and rarely gets above 8°C (45F) during the day.

                      Tomorrow I will make a pile of scrap plywood U-clamps and wedges, for the laminations, and tape up the four moulds with parcel-tape.


                      The view out the back.


                      Floor cleared for action. Kwila planks alongside jig.


                      Cheers,
                      Ian
                      Last edited by IanMilne; 05-08-2021, 02:03 PM.
                      Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
                      Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

                      “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
                      Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

                      Comment

                      • IanMilne
                        Senior Member
                        • Mar 2015
                        • 1074

                        #26
                        Re: Kotik, Kotik, Kotik!

                        21 July 2016
                        After making the plywood clamps and wedges, I finally arrived at the first big glue-up. After doing those little jobs that you always have to do before you can do the thing you set out to do, I glued the frames yesterday afternoon and evening until 11 p.m. I have nine laminations in each frame. (I can recommend Stromborg’s method, steaming three thicker layers and gluing them when cooled.) I am using WEST system resin with fast hardener, and I play a fan-heater onto the resin containers and another couple over the gluing bench, while I am doing it. I left them alone today and will clean them up tomorrow. They are at stations 2, 3, 5 and 6 (6 because I don’t know how much will be left of the bulkhead with the cutouts for the quarter berths).

                        22 July
                        Today I trimmed the keelson ends of the frames first so they would go back in the same places, and then took them off the moulds and cleaned them
                        up with my electric plane and belt sander. I’ll put them through the thicknesser and router table yet, but tomorrow is glue-up day for the stems!

                        Well, I was going to post some photos, but I can't seem to get the link addresses tonight.
                        Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
                        Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

                        “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
                        Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

                        Comment

                        • IanMilne
                          Senior Member
                          • Mar 2015
                          • 1074

                          #27
                          Re: Kotik, Kotik, Kotik!

                          Here are the photos up to 22 July:
                          Well, sorry, it still doesn't work. I can put the photos into Flickr but I can't get the menu with "Copy Image Location" on it.
                          Anyway, I spent most of Saturday tweaking the set-up and rehearsing the clamping procedure, and on Sunday afternoon and evening I got the inner and outer stems glued up and clamped in place. This morning (Tuesday) I took the stems off the jigs and pulled the plastic off them, took the jigs apart and cleaned up the mess. We had to go out after that. Tomorrow I will clean the excess glue off the stems the same way as for the frames, and mill the keelson out of three kwila decking planks.
                          Now I'll have another go at the photos....
                          Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
                          Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

                          “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
                          Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

                          Comment

                          • IanMilne
                            Senior Member
                            • Mar 2015
                            • 1074

                            #28
                            Re: Kotik, Kotik, Kotik!

                            OK. Here are the frame photos.

                            Dry run.


                            Gluing bench (making sandwiches).


                            Frames glued up.


                            Keelson slots trimmed.


                            Frames off the moulds.


                            Cleaning up.


                            Cheers,
                            Ian
                            Last edited by IanMilne; 05-08-2021, 02:35 PM.
                            Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
                            Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

                            “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
                            Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

                            Comment

                            • IanMilne
                              Senior Member
                              • Mar 2015
                              • 1074

                              #29
                              Re: Kotik, Kotik, Kotik!

                              All the frames have now been cleaned up with the electric plane and belt sander. Here are the stem photos.


                              Fore-stems, inner and outer. Dry assembly.


                              Aft stems, inner and outer. Dry assembly.


                              Fore stems glued up.


                              Aft stems, glued up.


                              Stems off the moulds.


                              Ian
                              Last edited by IanMilne; 05-08-2021, 02:41 PM. Reason: layout
                              Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
                              Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

                              “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
                              Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

                              Comment

                              • IanMilne
                                Senior Member
                                • Mar 2015
                                • 1074

                                #30
                                Re: Kotik, Kotik, Kotik!

                                Now I'll go out to the workshop and make another big mess, dressed like this. You'll recognise me anywhere! I made the Sooty Tern stems out of big pieces of macrocarpa glued together, and it was really a lot easier, but I couldn't get hardwood to make these ones that way.



                                And off to work we go.

                                Cheers,
                                Ian
                                Old Joke: ‘A bench fitter works to the nearest thousandth of an inch. A loco fitter (steam) works to the nearest inch. A shipwright works to the nearest ship’.”
                                Alan Byde, Canoe Design and Construction, Pelham Books, 1978

                                “...old maxim, 'A fair line supersedes any given measurement'.”
                                Allan H. Vaitses, Lofting, International Marine, 1980

                                Comment

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