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Thread: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

  1. #1
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    Default Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    Hollow spars are constructed, sail kit in hand, and rigging questions abound. I think I have the foresail rigging of my Sooty Tern figured out, but some of the details of mizzen rigging are perplexing me. Given I have no experience with mizzens, reefing, or lug sailing, I could use some advice.

    Here are my questions concerning the mizzen (17 sq ft area on the Sooty Tern):

    1. Is a vang necessary or advisable? If so, what would be a good way to rig the vang?
    2. Is an outhaul necessary or advisable?
    3. Reefing: would it be best to rig a reefing system that connects the luff & leech cringles with one line (I can envision this in my head, but have not worked it out) or would two separate lines be advisable.

    I've googled and search the forum as best I can to get these answers, but to no avail. I've also looked through all of the images I could find, including James McMullen's images of Rowen but I can't put all of the pieces together - too may dangling lines for me to understand.


    If anyone would like to share their working mizzen rigging, or advice, I would much appreciate it.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    Offcenterharbor has a great video on rigging the Caledonia Yawl by Geoff Kerr, it has good mizzen setup. If your not a Offcenterharbor member, it is well worth it.
    "There are many sailors at the bottom of the sea that are smarter than you or I"

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    deke,
    Thanks for mentioning OFC. I am a member and a fan. Though I appreciate Geoff's approach to rigging (and building), he a bit to minimalistic for my tastes. Also I don't want a sprit boom mizzen which he builds on the CY, so I'm looking for other ideas.

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassbug View Post
    Hollow spars are constructed, sail kit in hand, and rigging questions abound. I think I have the foresail rigging of my Sooty Tern figured out, but some of the details of mizzen rigging are perplexing me. Given I have no experience with mizzens, reefing, or lug sailing, I could use some advice.

    Here are my questions concerning the mizzen (17 sq ft area on the Sooty Tern):

    1. Is a vang necessary or advisable? If so, what would be a good way to rig the vang?
    2. Is an outhaul necessary or advisable?
    3. Reefing: would it be best to rig a reefing system that connects the luff & leech cringles with one line (I can envision this in my head, but have not worked it out) or would two separate lines be advisable.

    I can shed a little insight on some. Let's bear in mind that the mizzens function is primarily that of an air-rudder, rather than a driving sail.

    1. The mizzen sheet will provide all the vang you need.
    2. Outhaul will be beneficial, even if you don't mess with it much.
    3. No need to make this complicated. The mizzen won't get reefed nearly as often as the fores'l.

    Other, more experienced Luggers will hopefully chime in.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

    15' Welsford Navigator Inconceivable
    16' W. Simmons Mattinicus double ender ​Matty

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    I believe the plans (at least for the Arctic Tern) show a single line method for reefing the mizzen. If not, yes on the outhaul. A single line starts at the reef point, reeves through the grommet at the clew, runs forward and through a cheek block on the boom, then back down to a cleat on the mast below the boom. Easy peasy. At least I think that's how I remember it going.
    I found with the Tern that at the second reef in the main it was time to reef the mizzen.

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    I would echo Ben and Andy. I have set up the Ilur with a sprit boom which gives me all the sail flattening and vang I need, and so not have a seperate controls for these; I do have an adjustable downhaul at the tack. For the most part, other than the sheet, I tend to set and go sailing, without fiddling with fine adjustments to the mizzen on the fly. As Andy said, when I am placing the second reef in the main, it is time to reef the mizzen.

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassbug View Post
    1. Is a vang necessary or advisable? If so, what would be a good way to rig the vang?
    2. Is an outhaul necessary or advisable?
    3. Reefing: would it be best to rig a reefing system that connects the luff & leech cringles with one line (I can envision this in my head, but have not worked it out) or would two separate lines be advisable.
    I have nearly the same rig as yours. I took Oughtred's Sooty/Artic Tern rig and added it to the Hvalsoe 18.
    1. No vang.
    2. Outhaul is necessary. I run mine from the clew through a beehole at the end of the mizzen boom and back to a fairlead/camcleat on the port side. You'll need this if you want to reef.
    3. One line for a slab reef on the leach. Lead that line forward to the starboard side to some sort of cleat. A second line for a slab reef on the luff. I route mine back through a beehole in the boom jaws to a fairlead/camcleat under the boom. You'll also need a halyard and downhaul, too. They lead to cleats on the mizzen mast.

    I'll probably get out in the boat this weekend. I'll take a photo of the mizzen sail.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    Thanks for the comments everyone. Andy, I had somehow missed IO's paragraph on reefing the mizzen, but I found it on my plans.

    Tim, I would greatly appreciate the pictures.

    I'm sure I will first sail in lighter winds and may not need to reef the mizzen; though I would like to live the dream of completing my boat before i sail it.

    -Dale

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    For RanTan my mizzen has a big sleeve in it that keeps its rigging clean and simple. When I put it away I roll it around the mast which is the way that would reef it although i have never had to in 10 years or so of sailing it. I have a notch cut in the sail so I can lash a snotter to the mast for the little carbon arrow shaft sprit. The snotter itself is some of that sailmakers 2 mil stuff which is plenty strong enough for the tiny sail. I put a grommet in the sail a foot or so behind the luff so that if I needed to reef it, I'd take the snotter off the mast, roll up the sail to the grommet and then tie the snotter around mast and sail, set things up and go sailing.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    You may also need a boomkin to which to run the mizzen sheet. You may well have this solved; I had to make a little outrigger whale boat style which supports the boomkin, and has a socket for a sculling oarlock. Boomkin is lashed down to the rail and to the outrigger.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    Ben,
    Yes I plan to use a boomkin for mizzen sheet control. I do have that part worked out I think. I believe that Tim made a hollow boomkin and ran the mizzen sheet through it. I'm going for a separate line only connected at the boomkin aft end.

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassbug View Post
    Ben,
    Yes I plan to use a boomkin for mizzen sheet control. I do have that part worked out I think. I believe that Tim made a hollow boomkin and ran the mizzen sheet through it. I'm going for a separate line only connected at the boomkin aft end.
    Depending on how you arrange that, you may find you have a minor irritating problem, as I do. On my boomkin, I run the mizzen sheet through a beehole at the end of the boomkin before leading it back inboard to a cam cleat. I find that the sheet frequently wraps itself around the end of the boomkin past the beehole whenever I have slackened off the sheet and tightened it in again. Not the end of the world but irritating.

    On my new boat that I am building, I am copying Tim's hollow boomkin arrangement to avoid that.
    Alex

    "“I am but mad north-north-west. When the wind is southerly, I know a hawk from a handsaw” " Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2 - Shakespeare

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    Eventually I figured how to run the mizzen sheet on bandwagon with less chance of snagging the boomkin thus it rarely happens, but I like Tim's hollow boomkin a lot - zero chance of snagging. Kind off brilliant really.

    I also think a conventional boom on this kind of rig is one step less fiddly than a sprit boom and there is no need to vang.

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Hvalsoe View Post
    Eventually I figured how to run the mizzen sheet on bandwagon with less chance of snagging the boomkin thus it rarely happens, but I like Tim's hollow boomkin a lot - zero chance of snagging. Kind off brilliant really.

    I also think a conventional boom on this kind of rig is one step less fiddly than a sprit boom and there is no need to vang.
    Hollow boomkin



    The deadeye is a piece of UHMW that I turned on my lathe. I pinned it with a few small bronze/copper pins. I might have used some Sika too. I honestly can't remember.

    Last edited by Yeadon; 04-16-2016 at 04:31 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    Mizzen / port side view of jiffy reef for leech



    Mizzen / starboard view of jiffy reef for leech. Line terminates at fairlead/clam cleat on starboard side of boom.


    Mizzen / view of port side jiffy reef line for luff. Note that line is led from below boom jaw through a beehole (see the stopper knot below the boom jaw?), to grommet at reef point, back down to other side of boom jaw, through boom jaw to underside where line terminates.



    Starboard side view ...


    Outhaul / runs through a beehole at the end of the boom, then led forward below the boom to a fairlead-clam cleat.


    Halyard cleated forward of spar / downhaul cleated aft
    Last edited by Yeadon; 04-16-2016 at 04:31 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    To reef, slack the halyard, slack the downhaul, tighten and cleat the tack jiffy reef line, tighten and cleat the clew jiffy reef line, (sail peak drops approx a foot or so), snug up the halyard and downhaul (use the force to find the correct balance between those two lines), snug up the outhaul for neatness, tie off the reef nettle. Continue sailing.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

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    Default

    Tim, how does the boom kin stay attacked to the brace on the stern deck?

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    Friction fit. I slightly tapered the last bit of the boomkin and then added a bit of epoxy to the outside of the boomkin. I roughed the epoxy up a bit before it totally cured. That seemed to help the fit.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    My boomkin is also secure with a friction fit:



    the little bronze hook on the forward face of the boomkin chock was there in the event that I needed a lashing point to secure things. Haven't ever used it. Tim's UHMW ferrule at the outboard end of the boomkin is great....if you go the hollow boomkin route, a low friction fitting there which is durable enough to prevent the sheet from sawing a groove into the mouth of the boomkin is a good idea. Mine is oiled iron wood and is holding up well so far.

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    For RanTan with the roll up reef, it is slack off the snotter, untie it from the mast, roll the mast around until I come up to the reefing grommet, tie the snotter back on; the grommet is big enough so that I can clove it with some of that 2-3 mil double braid, then set tension and half hitch it. I should say that on my 1/2 id carbon tube sprit I have plugged both ends with a bit of dowel. On the clew I have a prussik with a big loop that goes through the clew, then gets hooked on the plug, a classic light stuff button. On the inboard side I have the same prussik with a small loop through which the snotter is run. No hardware and all light line. I try to do knots instead of hardware and cleats when I can so lots of prussiks and rolling hitches in my rigging.

    I thought about running my mizzen sheet down the hollow carbon tube I use for a boomkin, but thought it was better to plug the ends with minicell so it floats when I drop it overboard. The wooden one is slick.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    Ben, I like your use of the grommeted mizzen to let you re-set the snotter and reef by wrapping the mizzen round the mast....very quick, very tidy, and an absolute minimum of lines and gear....Waxwing's mizzen set up is still a work in progress, but I am pretty happy with the current balance of ease, speed, and minimizing gear-- my mizzen does not have the grommet to allow wrap reefing, though I do roll the sail up around the mast for stowing; currently, using a halyard to lower the sail enough to roll the bunt, move the sheet and downhauls up, re-tension the snotter, and resume sailing. Takes but a minute, neat in use, and unfussy. So far, so good.

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    For the record, I stole the hollow boomkin idea from John.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    And which was graciously given to me by Clint Chase......

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    This thread has been very useful for me as I plan my mizzen rigging. The photos are most helpful Tim, thanks. Lots of good comments from others too add clarification and new perspective. Thanks.
    -Dale

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeadon View Post
    To reef, slack the halyard, slack the downhaul, tighten and cleat the tack jiffy reef line, tighten and cleat the clew jiffy reef line, (sail peak drops approx a foot or so), snug up the halyard and downhaul (use the force to find the correct balance between those two lines), snug up the outhaul for neatness, tie off the reef nettle. Continue sailing.
    Tim… why do you slack the downhaul at this stage? Once the halyard is slacked, the tension is removed from the sail so loosening the downhaul is moot. Or not?

    I have no mizzen but I do have a marconi main for which I spend a lot of time considering reefing procedure.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    What diameter of boomkin did you use Tim & John.

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    Dale, Waxwing's boomkin is 1&3/4" at it's widest, 1&1/4" at the tip and stub tenon:






  28. #28
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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    John, very nice work!

    How do you keep the inside of the boomkin glue-free when you glue it up? I could see sharp pieces of epoxy catching on the line. I don't see any liner or tube within the hollow.

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    Thanks, Dale. No liner for the boomkin; it was a small enough work piece that I could push a small wad of cloth dampened with denatured alcohol through the bore several times after glue up while the epoxy was still wet. The bore is nicely smooth and doesn't catch the mizzen sheet at all. I think Tim may have glued his boomkin up in halves to allow clean up before final assembly...Tim, am I remembering that correctly?

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    Default Re: Mizzen rigging for sail and oar

    I epoxied mine all up together, but then I did my best to wipe/mop out the inside of the boomkin with a rag soaked in denatured alcohol. I sort of flossed through there with the help of a long dowel. I probably swabbed through the boomkin five or six times until I felt like it was clean. After that I just figured it was fine.

    I went sailing earlier. The boat is all put away. I'll go out later and check the diameter of the boomkin.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

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