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Thread: Liberals suck

  1. #1
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    Default Liberals suck

    .
    That is a Paul Pless line. But I am coming around to the same conclusion.

    Margaret Carlson neatly describes the problem:

    Rand Paul Shivs Anthony Fauci Again as Dems Deliver Dumb Speeches

    By Margaret Carlson

    Sen. Rand Paul, who’s made a sport of hunting Dr. Anthony Fauci, really stuck the shiv in at the Senate COVID hearing on Tuesday. It can hardly get more personal than asking Fauci if he thinks it’s “appropriate to use your $420,000 salary to smear scientists who don’t agree with you?” Paul kept at it, describing how eminent the scientists were, without naming them, waving emails he said would prove his point.

    There was more—Paul’s questioning went on for about ten minutes, twice as long as allowed, and he didn’t so much ask questions as call the doctor reprehensible, among other epithets, while ignoring the other expert witnesses. Listening to Paul, I understood why his next door-neighbor finally hauled off and attacked him.

    As Sen. Patty Murray inexplicably let Paul go on for twice his allowed time, only invoking the rules to give Fauci about two minutes to answer over eight minutes of what would otherwise have been an uninterrupted monologue, the doctor cut to the chase, saying that Paul’s continued lies about him “kindled the crazies” to the point where the police, in a routine stop for speeding, came upon one of the crazies driving from Sacramento to Washington with an AR-15 and ammo and a plan to kill Fauci. He waved his own piece of paper from Paul’s website with the message “Fire Dr. Fauci” used to solicit donations.

    The next Democrat up, Sen. Chris Murphy, could have used his five minutes to call Paul to account or give Fauci time to speak without interruption. Instead, Murphy congratulated Fauci for defending himself–“not always an easy thing to do,” he said. He then moved on to his list of prepared questions.

    Why would he do that? Because they all do. There’s plenty of time to coordinate beforehand—to split up the duties, agree on the points that need to be made, establish an order of battle. But members of both parties largely read from their notes, written by an aide. Paul could have burst into song and the instinct would be to keep reading off notes in front of them, when the instinct should be to challenge the phony claims about Fauci.

    One smart thing Democrats did in Trump’s first impeachment hearing was hire an attorney to do the grilling, taking a page from the old days when hearings meant something and counsels to the various committees did most of the questioning, rather than lawmakers stiffly delivering speeches dressed up as questions.

    It was informed questioning of Ralph Nader and reluctant auto manufacturers from the counsel of the relevant committees that moved the country to see that what stood between them and deadly crashes was a set of inexpensive seat belts. In the famed Watergate hearings, it wasn’t only the chairs teasing out what Nixon knew and when he knew it. It was two lawyers, Sam Dash and Fred Thompson, the latter so effective he left Congress to play one on TV. A few years later he became a senator himself.

    At Tuesday’s hearing, Republicans coordinated their questioning to push a lie about Fauci keeping his finances secret. In fact, they are publicly available. It’s no wonder, at a time when 81% of Republicans disapprove of the job the 81-year-old doctor is doing and the party’s senators raise money off of bashing him.

    The result was that none of the officials there to testify were brought to account, about why they can’t get their stories straight about when, where and which masks we should be wearing or how long people who test positive should stay at home. No one talked about the danger of our healthcare system snapping under the strain. Instead, the day was spent in an onslaught of repetitive and baseless charges against Fauci.

    Democrats wonder why they don’t get their message out as well as Republicans. One reason is Republicans are willing to endlessly repeat the same lies. A hearing would be a good place to respond to those lies, five minutes at a time. To bring officials to account, even Democratic appointees, take a detour to rebut Republicans with the same gusto they light into you, and even occasionally make laws, although regular order is nearly extinct. A bill can become a law today without seeing the inside of a hearing room.

    True, being a senator isn’t what it used to be. Only a few members get all the attention at a time when so many of them crave it and often it’s the most extreme member as they smear Fauci while promoting any and every supposed cure except the vaccines that can actually save lives.

    As Republicans peddle propaganda, why didn’t each Democrat preface their questions with a reminder that this is a crisis of the unvaccinated, who are ten times more likely to become infected, 17 times more likely to be hospitalized, and 20 more likely to die?

    Watching the Rand Pauls of the world grandstand, while Democrats did little to challenge him, was a scene to make you despair.

    In a crisis as profound as this, a hearing is a terrible thing to waste.

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/other...LWtdOQLI---U-U
    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 01-12-2022 at 05:28 PM.
    " I am one of those white, common sense conservatives. I believe in science and I have not taken the shot.”
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    I agree, and it's killing me.
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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Rand Paul needs another visit from his neighbor to BTS out of him. IHTF guy
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Spot on, and a great headline.
    Scientific knowledge is a social construction on a par with myth, superstition, religion, and political orientation, which are therefore entitled to the same respect, prestige and funding as science.

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Dems play softball while the GOP plays hardball. Time for that to change.
    Take the gloves off and go hard at them.
    Biden hinted at this when he basically called anyone who disagrees with the voting rights bill a follower of Jefferson Davis.
    He also kicked Trump in the nuts. Hard.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Cool Re: Liberals suck




    Conservatives swallow.
    Keep calm, persistence beats resistance.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    I don't get it. Obama tried to be reasonable & Biden, along with all the Dems in Congress, got to see how well that worked. Did they learn anything? Seems not.

    We need some Dems with some fire & even more important we need everyone on board with the new rules. Seems the progs have an inkling, but the moderates would rather chastise the progs than go after the liars on the other side of the aisle.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Seems to me that the Republicans are much better alley fighters than Democrats - we’re going to have to learn how.
    if we don’t, we’ll be crushed.

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Many D.C. Democrats think there are still reasonable Republican colleagues. A BIG mistake.

    They are all unprincipled and gutless and marching in lockstep to retain power.

    There is political opportunity here. But too many D.C. Democrats, particularly in the U.S. Senate, are weak sisters.
    " I am one of those white, common sense conservatives. I believe in science and I have not taken the shot.”
    -- Sarah Palin, 9/16/21

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Quote Originally Posted by RickBetterley View Post
    Seems to me that the Republicans are much better alley fighters than Democrats - we’re going to have to learn how.
    if we don’t, we’ll be crushed.
    This.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    Except that the Republicans are alley fighters because they are willing to lie and create and live in a manufactured reality, whereas Democrats have to become alley fighters with truth, without going low. Different rules, how do you wrestle a pig without getting down in the mud?
    The partisans didn’t become nazis by fighting the nazis using…..creative methods. Wrestling a pig and getting down in the mud might be what you have to do, just make sure you get up after and clean off.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Yes liberals suck.

    Almost as much as the best of the conservatives.

    Reminds me of the old saying, "Capitalism is the worst system EVER invented! Except for all the others."
    David G
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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    The right sucks at governance and the left sucks at politics.

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    This doesn't make sense, the political divide in the USA isn't like partisans and nazis.



    I don't see how this works.
    I’m saying that fighting something using methods you may not have thought good don’t make you the thing you are fighting.

    As to the pig comment, like any conflict (and I do think that it is a conflict) keeping who you are as something you can return to after the conflict ends is important and possible. You don’t need to stay in the mud.


    Analogies seem to be difficult to follow by many here. Perhaps a high percentage of concrete thinkers.

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    No, you don’t have to lie. But be loud. Be aggressive. Be firm. Have a long memory. Make allies in those who are enemies of your enemies. How many Democrats will help fund Liz Cheney rather than Bernie sanders.

    In fact, fund republicans that aren’t trumps choices everywhere. Cause discontent.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    On topic --

    Why Democrats are so bad at defending democracy

    When it comes to elections, the Republican Party operates within a carapace of lies. So we rely on the Democrats to preserve our system of government.

    The problem is that Democrats live within their own insular echo chamber. Within that bubble convenient falsehoods spread, go unchallenged and make it harder to focus on the real crisis. So let’s clear away some of these myths that are distorting Democratic behavior:


    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/06/o...democracy.html
    David G
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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    Or, your follow-up post was better written than your analogies.
    This is not the first time that an analogy seemed to whoosh over the head of some readers. There no shame in being a concrete thinker. But it’s good to know for when I try to present a thought.

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    Creationists love to have stage debates on evolution with scientists, two podiums, two viewpoints. The creationists take off sprinting with falsehood after falsehood after falsehood, and the scientists look silly trying to combat the whirlwind. Same goes for the Sunday morning political shows, with the split screen format pitting a left of center expert and a right wing politician. The politician pivots and pivots and pivots, ignores the moderator, and eats up the time. The expert looks silly.

    When Trump and Hillary debated, he strode behind her, looking imposing, what could she possibly do to combat that, without running the danger of sounding shrill?

    Moreover, a large percentage of the electorate gets their news and opinions from highly select sources...how to reach them at all?

    All to say, it simply is not an easy problem to solve.
    Scientists look silly because they try to engage and inform rather than having a laughing fit and thanking the creationists for the stand up comedy routine.

    Hillary should have stomped on his foot and told him to back out of her personal space.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Action is better than reaction. Democrats need to start out-thinking the republicans, and be prepared to counter, rather than just responding.

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    Is David Brooks a go-to guy on the subject? I don't know...
    Just another Beltway pundit. But one that is going thru the transition, like some here have, from Republican loyalist to tRump-averse human being. Which has seemingly opened his eyes in a variety of ways. Doesn't mean he's faultless, but I do often find him worth reading these days.
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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    And, it might not have gone well for her, in the eyes of the viewers.
    Perhaps. But a definitive action is usually better than being seen as “dominated”.

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Perhaps. But a definitive action is usually better than being seen as “dominated”.
    Have you even noticed how much 'monday morning quarterbacking' you do? And how... even with the benefit of hindsight... you only get it right every so often? Remarkable.
    David G
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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Have you even noticed how much 'monday morning quarterbacking' you do?

    You're absolutely right. I’ll just shut up and watch while the Democrats lose the next election.



    On second thought:
    You’re in business correct? How does negotiation work when you are in a weak position, seen as weak, and you are negotiating with a criminal?

    I’ve been in business long enough to know that confidence (perceived or otherwise), an image of having something that the customer can’t possibly live without (and just maybe they can convince me that I should sell it to them) and a bit of indifference goes far better than an image of whining weakness with a smell of desperation. Right now, the Democrats smell a bit.
    Last edited by Decourcy; 01-12-2022 at 11:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    An example of Liberal strength.
    P.E.T during the October crisis when the military were mobilized to meet the terrorist threat. When asked by a reporter how far he would go, he answered “just watch me”. Strength and a don’t give a damn attitude. Very effective.

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    You're absolutely right. I’ll just shut up and watch while the Democrats lose the next election.



    On second thought:
    You’re in business correct? How does negotiation work when you are in a weak position, seen as weak, and you are negotiating with a criminal?

    I’ve been in business long enough to know that confidence (perceived or otherwise), an image of having something that the customer can’t possibly live without (and just maybe they can convince me that I should sell it to them) and a bit of indifference goes far better than an image of whining weakness with a smell of desperation. Right now, the Democrats smell a bit.
    What a lotta whatifs. Sorry, I don't knowingly do business with criminals. If I'd wanted that - I'd have stayed in the field of economics. <G>
    David G
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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    What a lotta whatifs. Sorry, I don't knowingly do business with criminals. If I'd wanted that - I'd have stayed in the field of economics. <G>
    Exploring what-ifs are how your prepare before an event rather than chase the tail. The Democrats are still chasing the tail of trump.

    Yes, you have done business with criminals. Knowingly or not or self blinded to the fact.

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Decourcy is offering substantive ideas on what the Dems might do to combat Rep. lies & vastly better messaging. Is anyone else? I guess he's not pure enough to be listened to?

    Yeah, yeah - I'm not pure enough either, I support progs.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Rather than get down in the mud and wrestle with them, just shoot the mofos, one after the other. Metaphorically, of course. Don't do the mud wrestling at all. Treat them like rabid dogs and put them down. Focus on the worst first. Put Gym Jordan and Boebert and the other crazies back in the used car selling game. Stomp them flat with overwhelming D support. Talk good government, talk responsibility, and use as much power and force as is legal to squash the f out of them in the meantime. The only good Republican is a dead one. Politically speaking, of course. I wouldn't advocate actual violence, as that would be satisfying but losing. And get me Scotted. I wouldn't advocate it even if Scot were on board with it.

    IOW, don't play their game. Figure out how to beat them down with something they don't know how to fight. Have in mind a new era of D dominance and figure out how to get there instead of following the Rs to the finish line and watching them get trophy after trophy. The best thing we could do would be to dominate in a fair contest and leave the most visible of them unable to get up to fight another day.
    Speak softly and carry a mouthful of marbles.

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Stories like this make me miss Al Franken all the more.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Decourcy is offering substantive ideas on what the Dems might do to combat Rep. lies & vastly better messaging. Is anyone else? I guess he's not pure enough to be listened to?

    Yeah, yeah - I'm not pure enough either, I support progs.
    last week he told me democracy was over and we need to arm ourselves for "mutually assured destruction", but now it's time to be active, not re-active, and hillary should have physically assaulted donald on stage, and we should be funding the candidacies of non-trumpist republicans.

    i guess we are just brainstorming so there are no wrong answers.

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post

    last week he told me democracy was over and we need to arm ourselves for "mutually assured destruction", but now it's time to be active, not re-active, and hillary should have physically assaulted donald on stage, and we should be funding the candidacies of non-trumpist republicans.

    i guess we are just brainstorming so there are no wrong answers.
    Got any? Ideas I mean. Or just the usual complaints and jabs. No? Nothing? Ok then.



    Good job at demonstrating why the title is correct though, so I guess there’s that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    ...and hillary should have physically assaulted donald on stage, ...
    I do think she should have dismissed him with "Quiet, Donald, mommy's talking!"
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Got any? Ideas I mean. Or just the usual complaints and jabs. No? Nothing? Ok then.



    Good job at demonstrating why the title is correct though, so I guess there’s that.
    i have done nothing but offer my philosophy. garret doesn't like it.

    i like how you've adopted my position that non-trumpist republicans may be our best way out of the civil war that you used to (last week) think was inevitable.

    you are as always vague, broad, self contradictory, and very certain of yourself.

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    Default Re: Liberals suck

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    i have done nothing but offer my philosophy. garret doesn't like it.

    i like how you've adopted my position that non-trumpist republicans may be our best way out of the civil war that you used to (last week) think was inevitable.

    you are as always vague, broad, self contradictory, and very certain of yourself.
    I may well have misunderstood, but what I get of your approach to things political is to keep on keepin' on. It's my opinion that such has been shown not to work & that Dems need to 1) get more forceful, 2) stop acting like we are dealing with adults, & 3) call them out on every lie. We also need to stop screwing around with pseudo-dem coal oligarch Manchin & get BBB & voting rights passed.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    . . .non-trumpist republicans may be our best way out of the civil war . . .
    Logical, and entirely possible. If they were to join the Dems and try to establish a right wing, they wouldn't draw many adherents, and wouldn't have much bargaining power If they instead somehow reconstituted the GOP, they could at least style themselves as the opposition, which will draw people on that ground alone.

    But if they fail, we have to do something else. There has to be a plan B ready to put into action; or, better, already underway.
    Scientific knowledge is a social construction on a par with myth, superstition, religion, and political orientation, which are therefore entitled to the same respect, prestige and funding as science.

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